Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2020 8:18:26 GMT
After 2 league games we were not expected to win against 2 teams who we are likely to be title contenders but coming away with a well earned point from one, a cup game we never do well in and again not expected to win and an unlucky point with a much changed side; everyone seems to be calling for Garner to go.
I must be watching different games to everyone else as I've watched every game so far and our performances have been no where near as bad as being made out in my eyes. Yes we faded in the last 20 against ipswich yesterday but leading up to it we were more than competing and there was a particularly good passing play before the goal with nice 1 or 2 touch passing from back through midfield to front and you could clearly see what style were looking to play and it looked good.
We are a young team mainly and they will take time to mature and grow together but we have good players and the team will come good - we just need a bit of time and patience! If Hanlon could of taken advantage of his early chance in the first half it could have been very different!
People go own about last season but we were very very lucky to be in the position we were in when GC left and there is no way we would have sustained it.... we were playing turgid but effective defence first football and sneaking wins when on the balance of play we should have lost. I don't remember watching any games under GC where I thought we dominated and outplayed the opposition.
GC leaves and BG comes in - yes he naively tried to change the style without the players which didn't work and it was our final game against Sunderland where it came together and I personally think if the season continued we would have seen much improved performances and more wins.
I don't know about others but you try performing in your job when you have a severely sick loved one that is constantly on your mind and maintain focus etc. This what BG tried to do and this is because he didn't want us to not have a manager. No wonder we struggled!
The players clearly rate him and his methods, his ethos is one that most people seem to be behind, he talks about lot of sense and yes so far this season we haven't got the results (except against Sunderland where we got a point that we would not normally expect to get) but I don't think we were ever expecting to get the results!
How about we cut him some slack and give him a realistic amount of time - if the results aren't there after that (and I mean by end Nov) then I will be with you but to be calling for change now is I think premature.
|
|
|
|
Post by Hugo the Elder on Sept 20, 2020 8:36:54 GMT
What did you see in the Sunderland performance then?
We were absolutely hammered 1-1.
We barely got out of own half after the break.
How many games should we wait before we can judge Garner?
Obviously cup games and games against better teams than us don't count.
Pretty soon everyone in L1 will be better than us so maybe they wont count either.
|
|
|
|
Post by bluebiro on Sept 20, 2020 8:39:09 GMT
The bookies certainly seem to have faith in him.
|
|
|
|
Post by o2o2bo2ba on Sept 20, 2020 8:47:26 GMT
Completely disagree with the op.
BG has had more than 2 league games.
BG record of 2 is the amount of wins since December.
Did we really compete v Ipswich yesterday? Jaak made two brilliant saves (free kick and a shot through crowd of players) plus numerous interjections and Alfie stood up to Sears when it was 1 on 1 in second half. Ipswich yesterday tested our keeper, we hardly tested theirs.
Sunderland second half was an avalanche of attack on us.
If we've played two tough matches and you give credit for that, reciprocally I presume you give the same debit v AFC Wimbledon, Mk Dons, Stevenage (bottom of whole league last season) and Walsall?
How about we use those knives to metaphorically cut something else than slack? His ties with us.
|
|
|
|
Post by Jomo on Sept 20, 2020 8:53:11 GMT
I am willing to give him a bit more time, but we absolutely have to start showing significant improvement in all areas.
I didn't watch yesterday, but there's enough written on here to know that we were poor.
Whilst results of course haven't been good enough, it's an even bigger indicator that our performances have been way below bar, aside from a creditable draw against Sunderland with our backs to the wall.
Results and performances-wise, there's almost nothing to defend BG with at the moment. I wouldn't sack him just yet, but certainly if over the next few games we continue to see disjointed performances and poor results, then his position will become almost untenable. We have to see improvement.
|
|
|
|
Post by RD on Sept 20, 2020 8:58:22 GMT
Didn't even read the post.
Anyone backing Garner with 2 wins in over 20 games and utterly toothless football needs to give their head a wobble.
Wake up
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2020 9:02:46 GMT
Its deeply frustrating but this new team cannot be judged against probably the two top sides in the division.
Take ten games, against teams that we consider we should beat on average, then judge.
The problem is the future.
Coughlan ball would ultimately got us nowhere and the team was patently not good enough to challenge for promotion.
So we wait and see, and hope.
|
|
|
|
Post by Goose on Sept 20, 2020 9:05:47 GMT
Yes I agree last season wasn't good enough, but we have to give these new players with the new style some time as if he goes now and a new manager changes the style of play completely then we will be back where we were when he took over from GC and it will start again.....
|
|
|
|
Post by o2o2bo2ba on Sept 20, 2020 9:11:42 GMT
Yes I agree last season wasn't good enough, but we have to give these new players with the new style some time as if he goes now and a new manager changes the style of play completely then we will be back where we were when he took over from GC and it will start again..... I've only seen the same style with new players. So, in essence..... nothing really new. Even the substitutions (69-72mins always) change nothing except personnel. Sorry. That's just the way I've seen it with own eyes paying money and time in travel. I've watched pretty much the same match now all year....... Groundhog Day! |
|
|
|
Post by Okebournegas on Sept 20, 2020 9:13:02 GMT
I have been backing Ben but let’s be honest his win percentage has to be the worst from any manager we’ve had , I’m sorry but if things don’t change soon I think it’s time for him to admit that it’s not working and time for him to move on. With the team we have under the right experienced manager I genuinely think we could do well. Apologies if many don’t agree , it’s just my opinion and my past posts have always been supportive of the manager.
|
|
|
|
Post by bluebiro on Sept 20, 2020 9:23:58 GMT
Its deeply frustrating but this new team cannot be judged against probably the two top sides in the division. Take ten games, against teams that we consider we should beat on average, then judge. The problem is the future. Coughlan ball would ultimately got us nowhere and the team was patently not good enough to challenge for promotion. So we wait and see, and hope. Where do people get the idea the team was not good enough to get promoted? Are they time travelers? All I saw was a team very rarely losing when they played. Yes they were wins by the odd goal and wasn't pretty. But wasn't the 1989 team in the same mould that got us out of this division? We feared no one that year and were unbeatable. We played the team mot the shirt. Unfortunately the manager and some now seem to give up the challenge before a ball is kicked which is quite sad really Bet Fleetwood dont look at defeats when playing sunderland. That's how far we have fallen with expectations when they feel they can achieve more then us |
|
|
|
Post by TAGas on Sept 20, 2020 9:30:02 GMT
I don't agree with the OP.
BG has had 20 games now and has a 10% win rate.
I think you fail to understand that when we drew with Sunderland they were on top most of the game and should have won. Was 1-1 because of our deep defending and Sunderland didnt take their chances on another day it would have been worse.
Yesterday when I was watching, we had 2 shots on target and lumped the ball up top a heck of a lot for a manager that is branding possesion based football and when we played it from the back from from Anssi to Harries to Leahy and then Leahy passed it back to Harries again and then Harries hoofed it up field to JML.
It looked to me that Westbrooke was the only midfielder on the pitch.
BG has had time go implement his style all pre-season and got the players that he wanted. Were not even playing the way he wants and losing this is what really annoys me on top of his deluded and the in-capability to take any blame in the post match press conference.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2020 9:31:42 GMT
What did you see in the Sunderland performance then? We were absolutely hammered 1-1. We barely got out of own half after the break. How many games should we wait before we can judge Garner? Obviously cup games and games against better teams than us don't count. Pretty soon everyone in L1 will be better than us so maybe they wont count either. Do you not think Hanlon going off who was excellent, Leahy going off who was excellent not effect the 2nd half against Sunderland? We were expecting a backs to the wall game there - or certainly I was and was pleasantly surprised by our first half.... I’ve said give BG until end of November in my OP? I may be giving too much benefit of doubt and games coming up will be a better gauge but I personally don’t think we are going to struggle as much as you say - but willing to be told I told you so if that isn’t the case. I still have faith and belief in what we are trying to do ..... at the moment |
|
|
|
Post by LJG on Sept 20, 2020 9:34:07 GMT
After 2 league games we were not expected to win against 2 teams who we are likely to be title contenders but coming away with a well earned point from one, a cup game we never do well in and again not expected to win and an unlucky point with a much changed side; everyone seems to be calling for Garner to go. I must be watching different games to everyone else as I've watched every game so far and our performances have been no where near as bad as being made out in my eyes. Yes we faded in the last 20 against ipswich yesterday but leading up to it we were more than competing and there was a particularly good passing play before the goal with nice 1 or 2 touch passing from back through midfield to front and you could clearly see what style were looking to play and it looked good. We are a young team mainly and they will take time to mature and grow together but we have good players and the team will come good - we just need a bit of time and patience! If Hanlon could of taken advantage of his early chance in the first half it could have been very different! People go own about last season but we were very very lucky to be in the position we were in when GC left and there is no way we would have sustained it.... we were playing turgid but effective defence first football and sneaking wins when on the balance of play we should have lost. I don't remember watching any games under GC where I thought we dominated and outplayed the opposition. GC leaves and BG comes in - yes he naively tried to change the style without the players which didn't work and it was our final game against Sunderland where it came together and I personally think if the season continued we would have seen much improved performances and more wins. I don't know about others but you try performing in your job when you have a severely sick loved one that is constantly on your mind and maintain focus etc. This what BG tried to do and this is because he didn't want us to not have a manager. No wonder we struggled! The players clearly rate him and his methods, his ethos is one that most people seem to be behind, he talks about lot of sense and yes so far this season we haven't got the results (except against Sunderland where we got a point that we would not normally expect to get) but I don't think we were ever expecting to get the results! How about we cut him some slack and give him a realistic amount of time - if the results aren't there after that (and I mean by end Nov) then I will be with you but to be calling for change now is I think premature. Can you explain why we're not expected to win against league contenders? It's the very start of a new season. We've got a newish young manager with his own players. They're two teams we beat last season. From everyone starting with zero points on the board what should we expect? Can you give me a list of the teams we are expected to beat so I know what to feel each game? Why did you watch the games if we're not expected to win? |
|
|
|
Post by Hugo the Elder on Sept 20, 2020 9:34:18 GMT
What did you see in the Sunderland performance then? We were absolutely hammered 1-1. We barely got out of own half after the break. How many games should we wait before we can judge Garner? Obviously cup games and games against better teams than us don't count. Pretty soon everyone in L1 will be better than us so maybe they wont count either. Do you not think Hanlon going off who was excellent, Leahy going off who was excellent not effect the 2nd half against Sunderland? We were expecting a backs to the wall game there - or certainly I was and was pleasantly surprised by our first half.... I’ve said give BG until end of November in my OP? I may be giving too much benefit of doubt and games coming up will be a better gauge but I personally don’t think we are going to struggle as much as you say - but willing to be told I told you so if that isn’t the case. I still have faith and belief in what we are trying to do ..... at the moment Fair enough. Giving him until November would be ok if he was a new manager and last season didnt happen. But he isnt. And it did. Hes already had 4 too many competitive games this season. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2020 9:34:19 GMT
Completely disagree with the op. BG has had more than 2 league games. BG record of 2 is the amount of wins since December. Did we really compete v Ipswich yesterday? Jaak made two brilliant saves (free kick and a shot through crowd of players) plus numerous interjections and Alfie stood up to Sears when it was 1 on 1 in second half. Ipswich yesterday tested our keeper, we hardly tested theirs. Sunderland second half was an avalanche of attack on us. If we've played two tough matches and you give credit for that, reciprocally I presume you give the same debit v AFC Wimbledon, Mk Dons, Stevenage (bottom of whole league last season) and Walsall? How about we use those knives to metaphorically cut something else than slack? His ties with us. And I equally give you the game against Bolton under GC... I think I’ve explained my thoughts on what happened last season - I could be wrong but I think it’s a reasonable explanation. |
|
|
|
Post by casey12a on Sept 20, 2020 9:36:29 GMT
What did you see in the Sunderland performance then? We were absolutely hammered 1-1. We barely got out of own half after the break. How many games should we wait before we can judge Garner? Obviously cup games and games against better teams than us don't count. Pretty soon everyone in L1 will be better than us so maybe they wont count either. Do you not think Hanlon going off who was excellent, Leahy going off who was excellent not effect the 2nd half against Sunderland? We were expecting a backs to the wall game there - or certainly I was and was pleasantly surprised by our first half.... I’ve said give BG until end of November in my OP? I may be giving too much benefit of doubt and games coming up will be a better gauge but I personally don’t think we are going to struggle as much as you say - but willing to be told I told you so if that isn’t the case. I still have faith and belief in what we are trying to do ..... at the moment We could be all but down if we give him until the end of November. It's going to take a huge effort to not get relegated if we've only got 5-7 points by then. |
|
|
|
Post by o2o2bo2ba on Sept 20, 2020 9:36:30 GMT
Completely disagree with the op. BG has had more than 2 league games. BG record of 2 is the amount of wins since December. Did we really compete v Ipswich yesterday? Jaak made two brilliant saves (free kick and a shot through crowd of players) plus numerous interjections and Alfie stood up to Sears when it was 1 on 1 in second half. Ipswich yesterday tested our keeper, we hardly tested theirs. Sunderland second half was an avalanche of attack on us. If we've played two tough matches and you give credit for that, reciprocally I presume you give the same debit v AFC Wimbledon, Mk Dons, Stevenage (bottom of whole league last season) and Walsall? How about we use those knives to metaphorically cut something else than slack? His ties with us. And I equally give you the game against Bolton under GC... I think I’ve explained my thoughts on what happened last season - I could be wrong but I think it’s a reasonable explanation. What's the Bolton match under GC got to do with BG and his choice of playing staff and tactics from December until now? |
|
|
|
Post by singupgas on Sept 20, 2020 9:37:21 GMT
I think you are right that they are 2 game we probably were favourites to lose, but I hate the mentality that it is fine if we did lose both games because it is expected. Sunderland, Ipswich are still just league 1 clubs like us. With this mentality when will we ever be anything more than mid table side.
Having watched both games we do not at all take the games to the opposition, yesterday we defended at home for 90 minutes.
The point away to Sunderland, was a very good point and understand playing a more defensive game.
At home however, I can accept losing a game but at least play like we are going to have a go, be attacking, be aggressive, get forward, create some chances and maybe get a few shots on target..we are so pedestrian and we give teams far too much respect.
BG has to get this team playing soon.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2020 9:38:50 GMT
After 2 league games we were not expected to win against 2 teams who we are likely to be title contenders but coming away with a well earned point from one, a cup game we never do well in and again not expected to win and an unlucky point with a much changed side; everyone seems to be calling for Garner to go. I must be watching different games to everyone else as I've watched every game so far and our performances have been no where near as bad as being made out in my eyes. Yes we faded in the last 20 against ipswich yesterday but leading up to it we were more than competing and there was a particularly good passing play before the goal with nice 1 or 2 touch passing from back through midfield to front and you could clearly see what style were looking to play and it looked good. We are a young team mainly and they will take time to mature and grow together but we have good players and the team will come good - we just need a bit of time and patience! If Hanlon could of taken advantage of his early chance in the first half it could have been very different! People go own about last season but we were very very lucky to be in the position we were in when GC left and there is no way we would have sustained it.... we were playing turgid but effective defence first football and sneaking wins when on the balance of play we should have lost. I don't remember watching any games under GC where I thought we dominated and outplayed the opposition. GC leaves and BG comes in - yes he naively tried to change the style without the players which didn't work and it was our final game against Sunderland where it came together and I personally think if the season continued we would have seen much improved performances and more wins. I don't know about others but you try performing in your job when you have a severely sick loved one that is constantly on your mind and maintain focus etc. This what BG tried to do and this is because he didn't want us to not have a manager. No wonder we struggled! The players clearly rate him and his methods, his ethos is one that most people seem to be behind, he talks about lot of sense and yes so far this season we haven't got the results (except against Sunderland where we got a point that we would not normally expect to get) but I don't think we were ever expecting to get the results! How about we cut him some slack and give him a realistic amount of time - if the results aren't there after that (and I mean by end Nov) then I will be with you but to be calling for change now is I think premature. Can you explain why we're not expected to win against league contenders? It's the very start of a new season. We've got a newish young manager with his own players. They're two teams we beat last season. From everyone starting with zero points on the board what should we expect? Can you give me a list of the teams we are expected to beat so I know what to feel each game? Why did you watch the games if we're not expected to win? I personally don’t see us as good enough yet to beat the likes of Sunderland or Ipswich who have a vastly more experienced and higher paid, valued team - remember a lot of their players are ex championship and prem players and they have a higher budget etc than us. I think we are a mid table side at present. I watch because I enjoy football and support my team .... and currently the manager |
|
