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Post by landrover on Nov 15, 2020 15:25:04 GMT
Big Mistake by Wael-BG needed time to build something for the future which he would have done over 12/18 months. Rovers have a very young squad who joined because of Garner. We now go back on the merry go round looking for journey men to come and start again then get the sack if he screws up or moves on if he is sucessful. Names like Ollie and DC are just a joke. Relegation nailed on this year so Div 2 football when eventually allowed back in to watch. All those wanted him out should be happpy but wait and see what the future holds, we are going backwards and building for the future has gone. I really don’t understand you when you say that the young squad only joined because of Garner! Now if it was Gerrard, then you might have a point but Ben Garner??? Really. Every manager wants time to weave their magic, but that’s not how it works. It’s all about the first team, pure and simple. Youth academies are for making money by spotting, and nurturing, and ultimately selling, talented players. Crewe and Exeter spring to mind and they both lie beneath us in the football pyramid. It’s helped them survive but that’s all. Football is about the here and now, not the future. Far to many pitfalls on the road to success. We have gone backwards, post Coughlan, simply by choosing Garner over many others, and then by allowing his personal vanity project free rein to reek havoc. Wael has bought this on to himself.
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Post by rovers69 on Nov 15, 2020 15:31:24 GMT
So if not down to Garner why did they sign. Every interview I saw with the new players they all said it was because of BG that they signed. Take your blinkers off.
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Post by Wembley_Gas on Nov 15, 2020 15:32:06 GMT
Big Mistake by Wael-BG needed time to build something for the future which he would have done over 12/18 months. Rovers have a very young squad who joined because of Garner. We now go back on the merry go round looking for journey men to come and start again then get the sack if he screws up or moves on if he is sucessful. Names like Ollie and DC are just a joke. Relegation nailed on this year so Div 2 football when eventually allowed back in to watch. All those wanted him out should be happpy but wait and see what the future holds, we are going backwards and building for the future has gone. I really don’t understand you when you say that the young squad only joined because of Garner! Now if it was Gerrard, then you might have a point but Ben Garner??? Really. Every manager wants time to weave their magic, but that’s not how it works. It’s all about the first team, pure and simple. Youth academies are for making money by spotting, and nurturing, and ultimately selling, talented players. Crewe and Exeter spring to mind and they both lie beneath us in the football pyramid. It’s helped them survive but that’s all. Football is about the here and now, not the future. Far to many pitfalls on the road to success. We have gone backwards, post Coughlan, simply by choosing Garner over many others, and then by allowing his personal vanity project free rein to reek havoc. Wael has bought this on to himself. Agreed, they didn’t join because of Garner, they joined because they liked the sound of the “project” and their envisaged role in it. Today’s BP article suggests the board still have the intention to adhere to that project they just want a manager with a bit of football nous to implement the match day part of it. Be interesting to see which of the applicants they view as the best fit for that.
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Post by Topper Gas on Nov 15, 2020 15:43:15 GMT
I really don’t understand you when you say that the young squad only joined because of Garner! Now if it was Gerrard, then you might have a point but Ben Garner??? Really. Every manager wants time to weave their magic, but that’s not how it works. It’s all about the first team, pure and simple. Youth academies are for making money by spotting, and nurturing, and ultimately selling, talented players. Crewe and Exeter spring to mind and they both lie beneath us in the football pyramid. It’s helped them survive but that’s all. Football is about the here and now, not the future. Far to many pitfalls on the road to success. We have gone backwards, post Coughlan, simply by choosing Garner over many others, and then by allowing his personal vanity project free rein to reek havoc. Wael has bought this on to himself. Agreed, they didn’t join because of Garner, they joined because they liked the sound of the “project” and their envisaged role in it. Today’s BP article suggests the board still have the intention to adhere to that project they just want a manager with a bit of football nous to implement the match day part of it. Be interesting to see which of the applicants they view as the best fit for that. BG'a Powerpoint presentation apparently sold the club to Westbrooke, I can't imagine GC was proficient in using PP! www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/how-powerpoint-presentation-convinced-zain-4697771As far as Wael apparently wanting the new manager to continue with BG's (or Wael's?) project, we're going to be pretty restricted if we're looking for an out of work manager who's prepared to continue with a project that's already hopelessly failed. Probably only Tisdale of the candidates mentioned so far is a likely to be suitable. Although where's this idea come from anyway as neither DC or GC seem interested in pursuing such a project.
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Post by olskooltoteender on Nov 15, 2020 16:11:50 GMT
There seem to be quite a lot of people currently bemoaning the fact that now BG has gone that’ll be the end of “the project” and that “the vision” will fall by the wayside . . . Well, the vision and the project are Wael’s, with probably a lot of input from Starnes; the recruitment has largely been down to Tommy Widdrington, so none of that is going away or likely to change. Garner didn’t originate it, he was simply brought in to help facilitate it - which he signally failed to achieve. I sincerely believe that any half-decent experienced manager at this level could come in now, take this squad as it is and fashion a very good team out of it. It’s just transpired that Garner just wasn’t the person to do that.
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Post by yetigas on Nov 15, 2020 18:38:16 GMT
Very sad to see BG go though understand why. It's hard to put your finger on what's gone wrong but for me, their second goal yesterday set the alarm bells ringing...no attacker should have time to receive a ball and turn with no pressure in the penalty area....reminded me of the defending in the games before DC was sacked...almost the opposite to the 'bodies on the line' approach of GC. Having said that, I feel that as a 'learning manager' he should have been given more time, and sacking him now is a pretty big risk. I cannot see the need for significant recruitment in January as I feel we have a decent squad...so we need a manager who is able to embrace the current players and take them forward. My heart sinks to see the usual suspects on the list of possible managers - I would imagine that TW is a good shout as he has brought most players to the club. Because other managers have done well elsewhere does not mean they will do well for Rovers - the chemistry has to be right. Also, given the recent turnover of managers, I would imagine many would think twice about coming here. People may argue that the whole BG project failed, but I disagree. There have been good foundations laid and some occasional glimpses of excellent attacking play (like our goal yesterday) but clearly not consistent enough. I certainly hope that whoever comes in does not ditch the objectives of playing good football. The last thing we want is a return to the diagonal, 'big boot' percentage balls hoofed from the back as we did with JCH last season. It kind of worked last year because JCH won a good number of those balls and was clever enough to win free-kicks - but Hanlon is learning and not the same type of player. The fact that many recruits cited BG as a reason for joining is a little worrying as his departure may impact on the attitudes of players who now will have to prove themselves to a new manager (unless TW of course). Anyway, not much point going over all the 'ifs' and 'maybes' - BG gave his all for 11 months, moved his family to Bristol and was clearly very committed to succeeding here. I think him for all his efforts and for leaving the club with a squad of players with far more potential than when he arrived. I certainly hope that he goes on to be a success elsewhere, in whatever role he can get. you could be right but "Also, given the recent turnover of managers, I would imagine many would think twice about coming here." Coughlin left of his own accord. DC was one of the longest running managers for one club. I dont think our turnover of managers has been any worse than any other clubs, and if any managers are interested they will see that Garner in particular was given more than enough chance to come up with the goods and failed. I dont think any sacking over the last ten years has been a harsh decision. Garner going kind of took a lot of us by shock thinking Wael had bought into Garners game plan and was willing to give him the time to develop at the cost of this season, but at the same time still stat in league one. What this has shown is that Wael has made it clear he expects more and wants progress Well I don't have the stats nor the time to find the comparisons with other clubs, but even if you take out the 5 caretakers, the new manager with be our 8th since Trollope left 10 years ago. With that average lifespan the real surprise to me is that BG bothered to move his family to Bristol! I fully understand the old 'football is a results business' cliche, but getting rid of managers so regularly would not fill me with confidence if I was thinking of applying for the job. The problem is that after we appoint a new manager and don't get into the play-offs this season, the forum will probably give the guy a full pre-season to get his act together, then it will be open season again in 2021-22 if we get a few bad results near the start of the season. So what then? We sack him and repeat...and again and again.... I may be in a minority of one, but I feel it was a mistake to sack BG ....a long term project is just that, long term! Building blocks were being put in place, we have a team of young players who will improve, and as I said before the season started I would have been OK with a mid-table finish this year. I hope Wael and Starnes take their time in appointing a replacement - no need to rush. The right man later is better than a dud, rushed appointment.
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Post by Hugh Jarsole on Nov 15, 2020 18:45:25 GMT
you could be right but "Also, given the recent turnover of managers, I would imagine many would think twice about coming here." Coughlin left of his own accord. DC was one of the longest running managers for one club. I dont think our turnover of managers has been any worse than any other clubs, and if any managers are interested they will see that Garner in particular was given more than enough chance to come up with the goods and failed. I dont think any sacking over the last ten years has been a harsh decision. Garner going kind of took a lot of us by shock thinking Wael had bought into Garners game plan and was willing to give him the time to develop at the cost of this season, but at the same time still stat in league one. What this has shown is that Wael has made it clear he expects more and wants progress Well I don't have the stats nor the time to find the comparisons with other clubs, but even if you take out the 5 caretakers, the new manager with be our 7th since Trollope left 10 years ago. With that average lifespan the real surprise to me is that BG bothered to move his family to Bristol! I fully understand the old 'football is a results business' cliche, but getting rid of managers every 1.5 years (on average) would not fill me with confidence if I was thinking of applying for the job. The problem is that after we appoint a new manager and don't get into the play-offs this season, the forum will probably give the guy a full pre-season to get his act together, then it will be open season again in 2021-22 if we get a few bad results near the start of the season. So what then? We sack him and repeat...and again and again.... I may be in a minority of one, but I feel it was a mistake to sack BG ....a long term project is just that, long term! Building blocks were being put in place, we have a team of young players who will improve, and as I said before the season started I would have been OK with a mid-table finish this year. I hope Wael and Starnes take their time in appointing a replacement - no need to rush. The right man later is better than a dud, rushed appointment. Apologies I didnt take into consideration care taker managers
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Post by lpgas1 on Nov 15, 2020 18:52:18 GMT
So if not down to Garner why did they sign. Every interview I saw with the new players they all said it was because of BG that they signed. Take your blinkers off. It was Garner who phoned them and no doubt talked about new training ground; new stadium; links with Palace and Chelsea; Good future and we will pay you more than you are gettingand thats why they signed, not because they like a man with a beard
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Post by yetigas on Nov 15, 2020 19:08:03 GMT
Well I don't have the stats nor the time to find the comparisons with other clubs, but even if you take out the 5 caretakers, the new manager with be our 7th since Trollope left 10 years ago. With that average lifespan the real surprise to me is that BG bothered to move his family to Bristol! I fully understand the old 'football is a results business' cliche, but getting rid of managers every 1.5 years (on average) would not fill me with confidence if I was thinking of applying for the job. The problem is that after we appoint a new manager and don't get into the play-offs this season, the forum will probably give the guy a full pre-season to get his act together, then it will be open season again in 2021-22 if we get a few bad results near the start of the season. So what then? We sack him and repeat...and again and again.... I may be in a minority of one, but I feel it was a mistake to sack BG ....a long term project is just that, long term! Building blocks were being put in place, we have a team of young players who will improve, and as I said before the season started I would have been OK with a mid-table finish this year. I hope Wael and Starnes take their time in appointing a replacement - no need to rush. The right man later is better than a dud, rushed appointment. Apologies I didnt take into consideration care taker managers No, it will be our 8th manager in the 10 years since Trollope WITHOUT the 5 caretakers. Include them and he will be the 13th! I find these stats quite alarming.
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Post by CrispPusher on Nov 15, 2020 19:15:50 GMT
Apologies I didnt take into consideration care taker managers No, it will be our 8th manager in the 10 years since Trollope WITHOUT the 5 caretakers. Include them and he will be the 13th! I find these stats quite alarming. Not nearly as alarming as only 5 wins in 11 months.
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Post by rovers69 on Nov 15, 2020 19:20:20 GMT
So if not down to Garner why did they sign. Every interview I saw with the new players they all said it was because of BG that they signed. Take your blinkers off. It was Garner who phoned them and no doubt talked about new training ground; new stadium; links with Palace and Chelsea; Good future and we will pay you more than you are gettingand thats why they signed, not because they like a man with a beard
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Post by warehamgas on Nov 15, 2020 19:20:32 GMT
All this talk about “the project”. What is it? Is it about trying to play football in a passing style? Is it the new training ground? Is it signing younger players, developing them then hoping to sell them on? Is it making the club less loss making, more sustainable? If it is then I hope we continue with it because every other club will be doing the training ground bit, most will be trying to find gems and sell them on and all of them will be trying to be more sustainable.
The style of football obviously differs from club to club but I doubt if it’s a project, just the way it is, we’re all different. I’ve mentioned it in the past but I truly don’t know what it means. I suspect it has something to do with it being light years away from what GC was doing, hence the change becomes a “project”. Or did we just get used to the word in DCs time? Every game then seemed to be a project, but he got away with it because he was winning a fair few games and gained two promotions off the back of it.
Btw this isn’t a dig at anyone because we’ve all used the term. If I’m wrong about what this project is I hope someone will enlighten me. Also, could we make sure that any future “project” includes winning more matches than this project has managed. I’m all for projects where we win games and sit anything above 8th in the table.
UTG!
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Post by rovers69 on Nov 15, 2020 19:21:50 GMT
trying engaging your brain before making comments that are irelevant
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Post by Charlton Hayes Gas on Nov 15, 2020 19:21:53 GMT
There seem to be quite a lot of people currently bemoaning the fact that now BG has gone that’ll be the end of “the project” and that “the vision” will fall by the wayside . . . Well, the vision and the project are Wael’s, with probably a lot of input from Starnes; the recruitment has largely been down to Tommy Widdrington, so none of that is going away or likely to change. Garner didn’t originate it, he was simply brought in to help facilitate it - which he signally failed to achieve. I sincerely believe that any half-decent experienced manager at this level could come in now, take this squad as it is and fashion a very good team out of it. It’s just transpired that Garner just wasn’t the person to do that. Also Garner was appointed under the old structure when Hani was still on the scene and we weren’t seeing much progress off the field and punching well above our weight. Since Wael has taken full responsibility and the investment with it, it could be we have more resources for a more experienced manager. Basically I think Garner was the cheap option and we might have a little more to entice managers now than we ever use to.
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Post by rovers69 on Nov 15, 2020 19:23:56 GMT
the above was for Ipgas1 lets hope there is not a No 2
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Post by Hugh Jarsole on Nov 15, 2020 19:27:35 GMT
trying engaging your brain before making comments that are irelevant uncalled for
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Post by rovers69 on Nov 15, 2020 19:29:43 GMT
so is sarcasim
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Post by gasandelectricity on Nov 15, 2020 19:45:09 GMT
you could be right but "Also, given the recent turnover of managers, I would imagine many would think twice about coming here." Coughlin left of his own accord. DC was one of the longest running managers for one club. I dont think our turnover of managers has been any worse than any other clubs, and if any managers are interested they will see that Garner in particular was given more than enough chance to come up with the goods and failed. I dont think any sacking over the last ten years has been a harsh decision. Garner going kind of took a lot of us by shock thinking Wael had bought into Garners game plan and was willing to give him the time to develop at the cost of this season, but at the same time still stat in league one. What this has shown is that Wael has made it clear he expects more and wants progress Well I don't have the stats nor the time to find the comparisons with other clubs, but even if you take out the 5 caretakers, the new manager with be our 8th since Trollope left 10 years ago. With that average lifespan the real surprise to me is that BG bothered to move his family to Bristol! I fully understand the old 'football is a results business' cliche, but getting rid of managers so regularly would not fill me with confidence if I was thinking of applying for the job. The problem is that after we appoint a new manager and don't get into the play-offs this season, the forum will probably give the guy a full pre-season to get his act together, then it will be open season again in 2021-22 if we get a few bad results near the start of the season. So what then? We sack him and repeat...and again and again.... I may be in a minority of one, but I feel it was a mistake to sack BG ....a long term project is just that, long term! Building blocks were being put in place, we have a team of young players who will improve, and as I said before the season started I would have been OK with a mid-table finish this year. I hope Wael and Starnes take their time in appointing a replacement - no need to rush. The right man later is better than a dud, rushed appointment. Stats tell whatever story you like. If you only include managers since the Al Qadi initial takeover we’ve had 3 managers in 6 years. 2 year average stints for managers is a fairly healthy statistic, especially when you consider only one of those was solely the clubs decision. Including pre-2014 obviously makes things look unpleasant but would you have kept Mark McGhee? Paul Buckle? Dave Penney? Don’t think so. Paul Trollope and John Ward would generate pages of discussion. That period was awful for the club. Really don’t think we have a sack and replace culture but we might do if we keep hiring Garner style managers. It sounds like the board don’t want another Garner though from today’s article in the post. As for Garner any other club and he’d have been lucky to have started this season alone.
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Post by RD on Nov 15, 2020 20:24:29 GMT
So if not down to Garner why did they sign. Every interview I saw with the new players they all said it was because of BG that they signed. Take your blinkers off. All he did was explain the clubs vision. In other words they bought in to CLUBS plan. I doubt they were falling over themselves to sign for a bloke with the worst managerial record in history and someone who had never played the game professionally.
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Post by bluebiro on Nov 15, 2020 20:30:05 GMT
So if not down to Garner why did they sign. Every interview I saw with the new players they all said it was because of BG that they signed. Take your blinkers off. made a difference from them saying they were coming to bristol because it's a big club with massive potential and a passionate fan base.
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