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Post by Jomo on Dec 15, 2020 10:50:05 GMT
I believe he deserves some credit for the signings, as he is the manager who declares what sort of player he wants, and then makes the final decision in saying "yes" or "no" and then ultimately convincing the player to sign the dotted line. He had a large part to play in signing several technically gifted players, which has gone towards our new philosophy as a club.
However, this I'm afraid is where the credit ends. For whatever reason (and I'm sure it was not for want of trying, and for putting on good training sessions) he was not a capable manager, and the results but even more so the performances ever since he came in, were nowhere near good enough. Particularly at both ends, you will see that prior to his arrival we were solid at the back and capable of nicking enough goals to win watches, and after his arrival we are not only scoring way more goals but we are also seeing an extraordinary increase in shots on goal and chances created. Under BG we had a toxic combination of being soft at the back, and almost completely ineffective going forward.
I'm sure he's an excellent coach with great ideas, and I wish him well, but it was on match days that he fell a long way short.
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Post by bluebiro on Dec 15, 2020 10:59:29 GMT
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Post by devonblue on Dec 15, 2020 11:00:40 GMT
He deserves credit for identifying the type of player and bringing them to the club. It was a step too far but that is not entirely down to him. Good luck Ben
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Post by daniel300380 on Dec 15, 2020 11:37:03 GMT
Has to take credit for being instrumental in the build of the training ground and leaving a legacy of bringing through players from our development squad. Ok, few things here; 1) Why? 2) He was the first manager in over a decade to not play an ex-Youth/Development Squad player in a match. Didn't he bring Zain Walker into the first team set up?? Don't think he played in the league, before he was here. Think his first league appearance was at Doncaster. Mehew made his debut against Walsall in the EFL trophy. So how was he the first manager, not to play them??
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Post by gulfofaden on Dec 15, 2020 11:38:36 GMT
He’s been fired from his first managerial job.
He was always courteous with the fans, appeared to work hard and tried his best.
I really don’t like this kicking a man when he’s down. Who cares if he designed the entire training complex or did nothing. He’s gone. He’s unemployed.
What’s important for both Ben and Bristol Rovers is our futures. Our future is with Tisdale.
I’ll allow Ben whatever he likes on his CV regardless of what he did or didn’t do. His record was awful. It costs us nothing to allow him to leave gracefully, salvage what’s left Of his career, and wish him well.
We have a culture in football of lauding succesful managers as heroes and being revolting to managers who didn’t succeed. So many terrace dwellers just love getting the knives out.
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Post by daniel300380 on Dec 15, 2020 11:39:44 GMT
Ok, few things here; 1) Why? 2) He was the first manager in over a decade to not play an ex-Youth/Development Squad player in a match. Didn't he bring Zain Walker into the first team set up?? Don't think he played in the league, before he was here. Think his first league appearance was at Doncaster. Mehew made his debut against Walsall in the EFL trophy. So how was he the first manager, not to play them?? Re read it, take it you mean in one match. Youngsters do not need to be playing in every game. Plus we still would have had a fairly young squad, even if they didn't come through our academy. A lot of that is because OC left, who was a regular in the past.
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Post by xenongas on Dec 15, 2020 11:44:01 GMT
Short term credit: No Long term credit: Hopefully Yes
As a manager he will be remembered by his record which is obviously poor. There's no getting away from our position when he joined compared to when he left regardless of the mitigating factors (some of which I believe are genuine). So right now when the results of this year are still raw, it is difficult to lavish any praise/credit on BG.
So onto longer term thinking, because there is a bigger picture than Saturday to Tuesday. I agree that BG must've been a factor in players signing. As has already been said, so many referenced him in their welcome interviews. The infrastructure and professionalism at the club does seem to have come on leaps and bounds during his tenure although it is silly to think BG dragged the club down that path. But he was part of it and probably added to the culture (which as PT has said, has some way to go still). So IF (of course it is a big IF) it transpires that BG was the man who took the first steps in a direction that turns out to be (hopefully wildly) successful for Rovers, then he deserves some credit.
In a perverse way, that season out of the league made for a successful few years afterwards because the rebuild was urgently neccessary and changed how we all viewed the team (credit to DC of course). Whether you think the team being rebuilt was necessary or not this year (Full disclosure: I'm of the thinking that the brief success was unsustainable), I think most agree we have better players now than 2019.
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Post by chewbacca on Dec 15, 2020 11:46:31 GMT
Ok, few things here; 1) Why? 2) He was the first manager in over a decade to not play an ex-Youth/Development Squad player in a match. Didn't he bring Zain Walker into the first team set up?? Don't think he played in the league, before he was here. Think his first league appearance was at Doncaster. Mehew made his debut against Walsall in the EFL trophy. So how was he the first manager, not to play them?? We'd gone over a decade without having a first team match not include an ex-Youth/Development player. Ben ended that run.
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Post by Gastafari on Dec 15, 2020 11:55:08 GMT
I think he deserves some credit.
Just like Ian Atkins got some credit for signing Steve Eliott, Craig Hinton, Aaron Lescott, Craig Disley and Richard Walker etc.
Even though the Football was dreadful and results weren't what we wanted, he brought those players in, who went on to get promoted under Paul Trollope.
If Tisdale can do the same with the players BG signed then he deserves some credit too.
BG's inexperience clearly showed, but I think its fair to say he has brought in a better standard of player, he just didn't have the nouse to utilise them properly.
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Post by daniel300380 on Dec 15, 2020 12:15:11 GMT
Didn't he bring Zain Walker into the first team set up?? Don't think he played in the league, before he was here. Think his first league appearance was at Doncaster. Mehew made his debut against Walsall in the EFL trophy. So how was he the first manager, not to play them?? We'd gone over a decade without having a first team match not include an ex-Youth/Development player. Ben ended that run. Ollie Clarke choose to leave didn't he?? As did Harrison and Lockyer etc. You can only play the player's if you have them. Who would you have played?? Player's like Lockyer and then OC were going to start, so it's hardly a fair comparison.
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Post by chewbacca on Dec 15, 2020 12:22:59 GMT
We'd gone over a decade without having a first team match not include an ex-Youth/Development player. Ben ended that run. Ollie Clarke choose to leave didn't he?? As did Harrison and Lockyer etc. You can only play the player's if you have them. Who would you have played?? Player's like Lockyer and then OC were going to start, so it's hardly a fair comparison. Not at all. Kilgour, Hargreaves, Kelly, Walker, Mehew, Tomlinson and many more were available to him. He decided to develop players from elsewhere.
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Post by LJG on Dec 15, 2020 12:26:22 GMT
He’s been fired from his first managerial job. He was always courteous with the fans, appeared to work hard and tried his best. I really don’t like this kicking a man when he’s down. Who cares if he designed the entire training complex or did nothing. He’s gone. He’s unemployed. What’s important for both Ben and Bristol Rovers is our futures. Our future is with Tisdale. I’ll allow Ben whatever he likes on his CV regardless of what he did or didn’t do. His record was awful. It costs us nothing to allow him to leave gracefully, salvage what’s left Of his career, and wish him well. We have a culture in football of lauding succesful managers as heroes and being revolting to managers who didn’t succeed. So many terrace dwellers just love getting the knives out. This doesn't make a massive amount of sense to me. What has the fact he's lost his job got to do with discussing what his achievements at the club were? It was Ben himself who claimed in his statement after leaving that his biggest achievement was the design of the training ground. On that basis it seems perfectly reasonable to consider whether that might be true. That's not really kicking a man when he's down - I don't see that a person becoming unemployed is an event that gives carte blanche to just outright lie about things.
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Post by gulfofaden on Dec 15, 2020 12:45:21 GMT
He’s been fired from his first managerial job. He was always courteous with the fans, appeared to work hard and tried his best. I really don’t like this kicking a man when he’s down. Who cares if he designed the entire training complex or did nothing. He’s gone. He’s unemployed. What’s important for both Ben and Bristol Rovers is our futures. Our future is with Tisdale. I’ll allow Ben whatever he likes on his CV regardless of what he did or didn’t do. His record was awful. It costs us nothing to allow him to leave gracefully, salvage what’s left Of his career, and wish him well. We have a culture in football of lauding succesful managers as heroes and being revolting to managers who didn’t succeed. So many terrace dwellers just love getting the knives out. This doesn't make a massive amount of sense to me. What has the fact he's lost his job got to do with discussing what his achievements at the club were? It was Ben himself who claimed in his statement after leaving that his biggest achievement was the design of the training ground. On that basis it seems perfectly reasonable to consider whether that might be true. That's not really kicking a man when he's down - I don't see that a person becoming unemployed is an event that gives carte blanche to just outright lie about things. “Regardless the orphan was starving, he still stole the bread so 50 lashes and the workhouse for him!” :-) Just comes off a little uncharitable to actually care about it.
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Post by chewbacca on Dec 15, 2020 12:54:12 GMT
If it's true and he did design the training ground then the pitches will have to have extra space on the left and nothing in either penalty area.
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Dec 15, 2020 14:00:31 GMT
Should take credit for the Gas manager with most b s in post match comments..
The rest....meh!
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Post by LJG on Dec 15, 2020 14:04:43 GMT
This doesn't make a massive amount of sense to me. What has the fact he's lost his job got to do with discussing what his achievements at the club were? It was Ben himself who claimed in his statement after leaving that his biggest achievement was the design of the training ground. On that basis it seems perfectly reasonable to consider whether that might be true. That's not really kicking a man when he's down - I don't see that a person becoming unemployed is an event that gives carte blanche to just outright lie about things. “Regardless the orphan was starving, he still stole the bread so 50 lashes and the workhouse for him!” :-) Just comes off a little uncharitable to actually care about it. Wasn't his terrible league performance the loaf of bread and his sacking the 50 lashes? The 50 lashes doesn't give the orphan the right to go and steal other stuff there are other consequences to that. Just like a sacking doesn't give someone the right to just lie about being an architect and civil engineer because they happened to be employed by a football club at a time when they built something. What supporters of the club should care about is that the people in the club who deserve credit for things getting that credit. It would be uncharitable to reward their work by saying "We don't care who did it, Ben has claimed it so that's good enough for me".
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Post by gulfofaden on Dec 15, 2020 14:28:59 GMT
“Regardless the orphan was starving, he still stole the bread so 50 lashes and the workhouse for him!” :-) Just comes off a little uncharitable to actually care about it. Wasn't his terrible league performance the loaf of bread and his sacking the 50 lashes? The 50 lashes doesn't give the orphan the right to go and steal other stuff there are other consequences to that. Just like a sacking doesn't give someone the right to just lie about being an architect and civil engineer because they happened to be employed by a football club at a time when they built something. What supporters of the club should care about is that the people in the club who deserve credit for things getting that credit. It would be uncharitable to reward their work by saying "We don't care who did it, Ben has claimed it so that's good enough for me". OK I can see you have strong views on this so I defer to your wisdom.
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Post by oldgas on Dec 15, 2020 14:35:40 GMT
I believe he should get some credit. If you watch the 'first interviews' from the new signings they all seem to make reference to Ben being part of why they signed. Ben would have learned a lot and will take that into his next opportunity I'm sure. Maybe the Plymouth job in a few weeks looking at Ryan Lowe's post match ;P In addition... if or rather when we sell James Daly (you would hope would turn a decent profit) then I am pretty sure BG pulled the strings to get him here from Crystal Palace so that should be regarded as a positive. *please note 'pretty sure' means I have no clue and am happy for someone ITK to correct me. Many Thanks GI1883 I don't know about anyone else, but I've yet to read a new player interview which said "I agreed to come here even though the manager is a complete and utter C unt" Its a bit like the players who are being touted with big money moves to the Champ or Prem saying " I'm a ........ Player, I'm very happy here and not looking to move" approx 2 days before they're photographed in their new club's shirt and with a fat, triple your money contract in their back pocket.
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Post by Big Jock on Dec 15, 2020 14:41:50 GMT
everyone deserves some credit in this world.
Be nice, it’s really so much better.
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Post by james246 on Dec 15, 2020 14:51:55 GMT
Ben does deserve credit along with TW he implemented a policy of bringing young talent into the club, however his game management was poor.
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