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Post by axegas on Mar 15, 2021 16:55:02 GMT
“Big” is just a matter of perspective. Norwich are perceived as a big club by us but are small compared with Newcastle. We’re big compared with Forest Green, who are in turn big if compared with Chippenham Town.
There is no right or wrong answer really.
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Post by LJG on Mar 15, 2021 16:57:15 GMT
I really love these "big club" debates. They're so easily resolved because everyone agrees on what they mean by the words "big club" and so its always a reasoned and well balanced discussion rather than people just yabbering the same two words back and forth at each other with a yes or a no in front of it. Yes. No!
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Post by keygas on Mar 15, 2021 17:20:11 GMT
I like the way all the new players say "Yeah it's great to be here, great to be at a big club" We are not a big club. If we hadn't sold Eastville instead we turned it in to a 35,000 seater then yes we probably would be a big club When you consider Bristol is the 8th largest city in the country with a population of nearly half a million & if you add in the surrounding areas it approaches nearly 650000 ,potentially Rovers if successful & obviously with improved facilities could become a big club. You only got to look at Bristol rugby with the success their having at the moment, if fans were allowed to attend they probably be getting near on 20000 every home match as there is such a large area of population to draw support from if you can get things right on & off the pitch.
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Post by hardingegas on Mar 15, 2021 19:13:36 GMT
Agree with that comment about the 1999/2000 season. We haven't been in the second tier since 1992/93!
Current League One teams since being in Second Tier:
Charlton 2019/20 Wigan 2019/20 Hull 2019/20 Ipswich 2018/19 Sunderland 2018/19 Burton 2018/19 MK Dons 2015/16 Blackpool 2014/15 Doncaster 2013/14 Peterborough 2012/13 Portsmouth 2011/12 Plymouth 2009/10 Crewe 2005/06 Gillingham 2004/05 Swindon 1999/00 Oxford 1998/99 Rovers 1992/93 Shrewsbury 1988/89 Northampton 1966/67 Lincoln 1960/61
Fleetwood, Accrington, Rochdale and AFC Wimbledon have never reached the second tier.
For a 'biggish' club about time we made a reasonable challenge?
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Post by Icegas on Mar 15, 2021 20:58:54 GMT
Peterborough, big club ? Never have been and never will be. They just have a more than decent buying & selling structure in place I really love these "big club" debates. They're so easily resolved because everyone agrees on what they mean by the words "big club" and so its always a reasoned and well balanced discussion rather than people just yabbering the same two words back and forth at each other with a yes or a no in front of it. I always go by a clubs fanbase or potential fanbase when I judge a club by it's size. Rich owners and top players come and go,new stadiums are built and success will be had by some over the years... but a clubs support base will always be there. History is just - that history. For example, are the former club Bury.. a club that has a rich history at the start of football a bigger club than say us or plymouth, even tho both of us have far bigger fanbase then Bury do/have? Wigan were nothing before MW pumped millions into them 20/15years ago and build there new ground. Premiership followed, a cup win also.But they were only getting 10k-12k of there own fans in the premier when there. Are they a bigger club then us or Plymouth either? They don't have the same fanbase as either of us, or the potential. That's why we are a club with so much untapped potential. We are from the 6/7th largest city in the UK and never ( until now ) had any real investment in anything to do with our club. It would be interesting to see what we could be as a club if we were to get a new stadium and success were we are pushing to get in the Premiership, or there.
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Post by warehamgas on Mar 15, 2021 21:21:23 GMT
I like the way all the new players say "Yeah it's great to be here, great to be at a big club" We are not a big club. If we hadn't sold Eastville instead we turned it in to a 35,000 seater then yes we probably would be a big club I suppose when players like that say those kind of things it’s more about them wanting to be thought good enough to be at a “big club” rather than us being a big club! As for Eastville, well we sold that 60 odd years ago in 39/40!! Lots of clubs have been worse than us during that time and have recovered to do well, even make the PL. Perhaps our inability to attract the wealthy local businessmen that Brighton, Fleetwood, Luton, AGC Bournemouth, Reading, Swansea and even Bristol City have during this time has had more to do with it. UTG!
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Post by Blackbeard on Mar 15, 2021 21:49:25 GMT
Joey Barton thinks we are a big club because we could if the football is pretty and we are in the top 8 pack out the Mem with 12000
Give us a cup final or a Wembley play off we muster 40000
Get us in the Championship and sort the ground out we would have possibly 18-20k every week
We have as much potential to be a big club as the sh,t down the road without the distraction of rugby, basketball, tiddlywinks etc
Then reality hits and we look at where we averagely always are - as usual , aspiring to be a top 6 L1 side interpersed amid mid table mediocrity and scrapping for survival
I listen to Spurs fans etc on Talk sport and I think, you don’t know you’re born lads
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Post by Gassy on Mar 15, 2021 21:53:46 GMT
I really love these "big club" debates. They're so easily resolved because everyone agrees on what they mean by the words "big club" and so its always a reasoned and well balanced discussion rather than people just yabbering the same two words back and forth at each other with a yes or a no in front of it. I always go by a clubs fanbase or potential fanbase when I judge a club by it's size. Rich owners and top players come and go,new stadiums are built and success will be had by some over the years... but a clubs support base will always be there. History is just - that history. For example, are the former club Bury.. a club that has a rich history at the start of football a bigger club than say us or plymouth, even tho both of us have far bigger fanbase then Bury do/have? Wigan were nothing before MW pumped millions into them 20/15years ago and build there new ground. Premiership followed, a cup win also.But they were only getting 10k-12k of there own fans in the premier when there. Are they a bigger club then us or Plymouth either? They don't have the same fanbase as either of us, or the potential. That's why we are a club with so much untapped potential. We are from the 6/7th largest city in the UK and never ( until now ) had any real investment in anything to do with our club. It would be interesting to see what we could be as a club if we were to get a new stadium and success were we are pushing to get in the Premiership, or there. Yeah never understood the big club vs successful club argument. People say Blackburn are a big club because they won the Prem - they're not a big club IMO. Someone on here said Bournemouth are bigger than us after recent seasons - again, they're not a big club. Fan base & potential is everything.
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Post by warehamgas on Mar 16, 2021 0:05:34 GMT
I always go by a clubs fanbase or potential fanbase when I judge a club by it's size. Rich owners and top players come and go,new stadiums are built and success will be had by some over the years... but a clubs support base will always be there. History is just - that history. For example, are the former club Bury.. a club that has a rich history at the start of football a bigger club than say us or plymouth, even tho both of us have far bigger fanbase then Bury do/have? Wigan were nothing before MW pumped millions into them 20/15years ago and build there new ground. Premiership followed, a cup win also.But they were only getting 10k-12k of there own fans in the premier when there. Are they a bigger club then us or Plymouth either? They don't have the same fanbase as either of us, or the potential. That's why we are a club with so much untapped potential. We are from the 6/7th largest city in the UK and never ( until now ) had any real investment in anything to do with our club. It would be interesting to see what we could be as a club if we were to get a new stadium and success were we are pushing to get in the Premiership, or there. Yeah never understood the big club vs successful club argument. People say Blackburn are a big club because they won the Prem - they're not a big club IMO. Someone on here said Bournemouth are bigger than us after recent seasons - again, they're not a big club. Fan base & potential is everything. Fan base and potential aren’t everything. Potential is just that potential, the ability to achieve something perhaps, without ever achieving it. Doesn’t really matter whether a club is big or small it’s about what you achieve. For the time being every club in the Championship is achieving more than us. We can talk about our potential but until you realise that it’s just dreams, nothing more. Of course we perhaps should be achieving more but you just have to look at all the divisions. There’s so many clubs outside of the PL who think they should be there. There are so many clubs in League 1 who think they should be in the Championship or higher and all the clubs in League 2 and even the National League who think they shouldn’t be there, talking about their “potential”. Only about 20/24 clubs in each division , they can’t all be where they want. Mind you I’m just as guilty about talking about potential as anyone so perhaps I’m just as guilty!! 😉 UTG!
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Post by chewbacca on Mar 16, 2021 9:31:12 GMT
The also rans in League One are pretty dreadful, the top of the league has followed a similar pattern to recent years with the top 8ish pretty easy to predict usually with one leftfield club involved. Two seasons ago Shrewsbury, last season Wycombe and Lincoln this year.
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Post by Gassy on Mar 16, 2021 11:16:43 GMT
Yeah never understood the big club vs successful club argument. People say Blackburn are a big club because they won the Prem - they're not a big club IMO. Someone on here said Bournemouth are bigger than us after recent seasons - again, they're not a big club. Fan base & potential is everything. Fan base and potential aren’t everything. Potential is just that potential, the ability to achieve something perhaps, without ever achieving it. Doesn’t really matter whether a club is big or small it’s about what you achieve. For the time being every club in the Championship is achieving more than us. We can talk about our potential but until you realise that it’s just dreams, nothing more. Of course we perhaps should be achieving more but you just have to look at all the divisions. There’s so many clubs outside of the PL who think they should be there. There are so many clubs in League 1 who think they should be in the Championship or higher and all the clubs in League 2 and even the National League who think they shouldn’t be there, talking about their “potential”. Only about 20/24 clubs in each division , they can’t all be where they want. Mind you I’m just as guilty about talking about potential as anyone so perhaps I’m just as guilty!! 😉 UTG! Think you’ve take my one comment of potential too seriously fan base is the main point for me. On what a team achieves, is exactly that.. for me it doesn’t make them ‘big’. Just successful, or more successful than us anyway 😂
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Post by warehamgas on Mar 16, 2021 11:41:28 GMT
Fan base and potential aren’t everything. Potential is just that potential, the ability to achieve something perhaps, without ever achieving it. Doesn’t really matter whether a club is big or small it’s about what you achieve. For the time being every club in the Championship is achieving more than us. We can talk about our potential but until you realise that it’s just dreams, nothing more. Of course we perhaps should be achieving more but you just have to look at all the divisions. There’s so many clubs outside of the PL who think they should be there. There are so many clubs in League 1 who think they should be in the Championship or higher and all the clubs in League 2 and even the National League who think they shouldn’t be there, talking about their “potential”. Only about 20/24 clubs in each division , they can’t all be where they want. Mind you I’m just as guilty about talking about potential as anyone so perhaps I’m just as guilty!! 😉 UTG! Think you’ve take my one comment of potential too seriously fan base is the main point for me. On what a team achieves, is exactly that.. for me it doesn’t make them ‘big’. Just successful, or more successful than us anyway 😂 Sorry if I did. Of course fan base is important as is potential. And for the last 50 years at times all we’ve had is potential! 😉 Part of my thoughts were driven by lpgas saying we might be a big club if we hadn’t sold Eastville. And my point was that was over 60 years ago and I think the reason we aren’t a “big club” is our inability to do what so many others did and that was persuade a capable local business man to take us to the next level. We didn’t and we haven’t hence the continual grasping of the potential we have and the large fan base, it’s all we’ve got! That it hasn’t resulted in our potential being reached shows how badly we’ve probably been run over the years. Oh for a man with a plan! UTG!
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Post by warehamgas on Mar 16, 2021 11:50:22 GMT
Fan base and potential aren’t everything. Potential is just that potential, the ability to achieve something perhaps, without ever achieving it. Doesn’t really matter whether a club is big or small it’s about what you achieve. For the time being every club in the Championship is achieving more than us. We can talk about our potential but until you realise that it’s just dreams, nothing more. Of course we perhaps should be achieving more but you just have to look at all the divisions. There’s so many clubs outside of the PL who think they should be there. There are so many clubs in League 1 who think they should be in the Championship or higher and all the clubs in League 2 and even the National League who think they shouldn’t be there, talking about their “potential”. Only about 20/24 clubs in each division , they can’t all be where they want. Mind you I’m just as guilty about talking about potential as anyone so perhaps I’m just as guilty!! 😉 UTG! Think you’ve take my one comment of potential too seriously fan base is the main point for me. On what a team achieves, is exactly that.. for me it doesn’t make them ‘big’. Just successful, or more successful than us anyway 😂 Must be a slow day I’m replying twice!! I guess team with potential, large fanbase, successful team and how they are applied are by and large just semantics. We might be able to tick some of those boxes at times and depending on views at the time achieve some success. Those teams I mentioned what are they? Brighton, have potential, a large fanbase which has got bigger and had a man with a plan. They’ve reached their glass ceiling and will now hover about there until they get relegated. Reading likewise, until they lost their man with a plan and Majeski left. Now they are hovering about in the Championship. Bournemouth, they got lucky over two seasons, broke the rules and got to the PL. Now they will struggle to maintain it and fans are wondering what the legacy was. Certainly no better a ground or training facility. Swansea, similar to Reading. We could have been any of those, perhaps. 🤔 UTG!
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Post by lpgas1 on Mar 16, 2021 13:55:05 GMT
The also rans in League One are pretty dreadful, the top of the league has followed a similar pattern to recent years with the top 8ish pretty easy to predict usually with one leftfield club involved. Two seasons ago Shrewsbury, last season Wycombe and Lincoln this year. All of whom have better grounds than us.
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Post by Gashead73 on Mar 16, 2021 17:25:38 GMT
The also rans in League One are pretty dreadful, the top of the league has followed a similar pattern to recent years with the top 8ish pretty easy to predict usually with one leftfield club involved. Two seasons ago Shrewsbury, last season Wycombe and Lincoln this year. All of whom have better grounds than us. Bet you are glad we don't play at Twerton Park anymore... The Mem is not fantastic but knocks spots of that little Shithole..... Understand the sh**, but so many don't realise what we have grew from. Thank you The Dunfords
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Post by gashead1981 on Mar 16, 2021 18:07:27 GMT
Yeah never understood the big club vs successful club argument. People say Blackburn are a big club because they won the Prem - they're not a big club IMO. Someone on here said Bournemouth are bigger than us after recent seasons - again, they're not a big club. Fan base & potential is everything. Fan base and potential aren’t everything. Potential is just that potential, the ability to achieve something perhaps, without ever achieving it. Doesn’t really matter whether a club is big or small it’s about what you achieve. For the time being every club in the Championship is achieving more than us. We can talk about our potential but until you realise that it’s just dreams, nothing more. Of course we perhaps should be achieving more but you just have to look at all the divisions. There’s so many clubs outside of the PL who think they should be there. There are so many clubs in League 1 who think they should be in the Championship or higher and all the clubs in League 2 and even the National League who think they shouldn’t be there, talking about their “potential”. Only about 20/24 clubs in each division , they can’t all be where they want. Mind you I’m just as guilty about talking about potential as anyone so perhaps I’m just as guilty!! 😉 UTG! I agree. When Leicester came down to L1 they got 16-18k in 30k+ Stadium and that would have dwindled if they stayed in there longer. Their potential was premier league champions....but none will have believed that in 2010. Fans are fickle and will grow with success and drop off with failure. So club size is based on maintained fanbase and division position. Location will also have a lot to do with it. We have the potential to be every bit as big as city. But we have never had the opportunity or ownership to realise it. So City are bigger than us as are every other club in the championship with the exception of Wycombe.
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Post by woolavingtonpirate on Mar 16, 2021 21:24:28 GMT
I think Wycombe are an excellent example of why the standard of football is very poor in league 1. Put together a team that is strong, knows all the tricks can get a goal out of nothing with a strong defence. I do think the bigger clubs hang on to their better players for longer, or teams with bigger budgets. League 1 is a graveyard for poorly run big clubs. Most games are full of poor defending, lots of mistakes. I think the standard has dropped massively in the last 5/10 years.
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Post by ChiefStateGAS on Mar 16, 2021 21:38:43 GMT
I like the way all the new players say "Yeah it's great to be here, great to be at a big club" We are not a big club. If we hadn't sold Eastville instead we turned it in to a 35,000 seater then yes we probably would be a big club I suppose when players like that say those kind of things it’s more about them wanting to be thought good enough to be at a “big club” rather than us being a big club! As for Eastville, well we sold that 60 odd years ago in 39/40!! Lots of clubs have been worse than us during that time and have recovered to do well, even make the PL. Perhaps our inability to attract the wealthy local businessmen that Brighton, Fleetwood, Luton, AGC Bournemouth, Reading, Swansea and even Bristol City have during this time has had more to do with it. UTG! That was over 80 years ago.... Or did time stop when the gas bottled it in 1999/2000??
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Post by gaschat on Mar 16, 2021 21:42:28 GMT
I’m struggling to understand any of the arguments put forward on this, every club has the potential to be as big as Manchester United if they have the investment, ground, fans, profile etc...we spend most of our history in levels three and four of the English league and traditionally attract gates of between 6000 and 9000. Our fan base, ie those who can ever be assed to turn up and pay at the gate is actually about 6000 and a few fair weather fans come along if we are doing well and boost it to 9000. When we get to a play off final we get 20000 or so. So that’s it, let’s say 25000 on the biggest, most important ever day in the history of the club...
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Post by ChiefStateGAS on Mar 16, 2021 22:46:33 GMT
I’m struggling to understand any of the arguments put forward on this, every club has the potential to be as big as Manchester United if they have the investment, ground, fans, profile etc...we spend most of our history in levels three and four of the English league and traditionally attract gates of between 6000 and 9000. Our fan base, ie those who can ever be assed to turn up and pay at the gate is actually about 6000 and a few fair weather fans come along if we are doing well and boost it to 9000. When we get to a play off final we get 20000 or so. So that’s it, let’s say 25000 on the biggest, most important ever day in the history of the club... I'm pretty sure we take more than 25k to Wembley. 89/90 Leyland DAF v Tranmere 48,000 attendance. 32,000 were gasheads 94/95 play off final v Huddersfield, attendance was 59,000. At least 50% of that for us?? Anyone know/remember? 2007 JPT Final at the Millennium 59,000. I believe we had more than Doncaster that day, but I can't find the breakdown. 2007 Wembley Play-Off v Shrewsbury. 61,000 is still the record for a 4th tier game. We must have had double Shrewsbury by my memory, I remember it was said that there were over 40,000 gasheads. 2015 Conference play-off v Grimsby. 47,000 is still the record for a 5th tier game. More than Grimsby that day so I'm sure we were at least 30,000. In terms of how sh** we've been for ... ever, I think our support statistics are pretty good. If we were a Championship team these days, doing well/ok and had the stadium for it I think we could be in the 15-20k range on average (like our neighbours). If we were in the Premier league 20k-30k would be doable (again, if we had the stadium). Just look at Brighton! Bristol is a big enough city, we could certainly compete with regards to the numbers of supporters should we actually ever progress up the leagues.
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