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Post by stevek192 on Mar 21, 2021 9:55:27 GMT
The big problem as I see it is that every week we set up with what looks a very defensive set up so we set up to do the job we are awful at-Defending. We have a very big problem in that we have four centre halves and only Baldwin is up to the task. We looked better yesterday when Ehmer and Kilgour were off the pitch but can we really set up at the start of the match with only one recognised central defender?
How can a team create 22 chances and yet not really look like scoring? This is what we are doing and at the other end as long as the opponents can muster three chances it is very likely they will score. This has relegation written all over it.
Swindon on Tuesday will probably have the only player on show who knows where the net is - Pitman and that is the player we should have signed in the summer when it was so obvious we would be short of goals.
What sort of player is Martinez? Could he start alongside Baldwin in a 4-4-2. IMO we could really have done with an empty week on the training pitch and I am sure JB wishes that too.
We really must find a place for Oztumer on Tuesday as he has more attacking instincts than McCo0rmick,Upson and Westbrooke put together and IMO if Nicho0lson is not fit then Ozzy has to start. For me Hanlan is a winger and not a striker so perhaps play him on the right side and start with Daly and Ayunga up front?
They say attack is the best form of defence but I am not sure that saying came about because the defenders weren't good enough!!
I would go with
Day
Williams Little/Martinez Baldwin Tutonda
Hanlan NcCormick Westbrooke/Leahy
Oztumer
Ayunga Daly
In truth I have the feeling that Joey Barton must be despairing that the team he has taken over has no natural finisher or a commanding centre half.!
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Post by Goose on Mar 21, 2021 10:04:30 GMT
I agree, the more you set up to defend, the more you will invite pressure. The only concern I would have with the personnel is two changes to the defence may upset things.
Id possible go Baldwin and Tutonda as CB with Leahy LB which would leave Westbrook in the midfield.
But in principle I agree, I'd get Daly in also as her is energetic and will run into the ground for you and could feed off of Ayunga
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Mar 21, 2021 10:13:32 GMT
I wonder if playing a 3 naturally central defenders together displaces the defence if most of their careers, the individual players have trained and played as a back 4?
The set up to attack originates from defence.
I would revert to a back 4, with naturally sided players playing in their position. In other words, back to basics.
I know it's a bit Avant Garde, but I would restore Tutunda as left back, and use Leahy to push forward more and support on left side.
McCormick appears to pick himself, but I'm not sure he's hit previous form since his sending off..
I prefer a front 2 forging partnership, but in recognised strikers I am not sure that suits Hanlan so much.
In essence, attack is best form of defence, but the truth is time is running out and these sorts of avenues should have been explored before Springtime!
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Post by daniel300380 on Mar 21, 2021 10:20:18 GMT
The big problem as I see it is that every week we set up with what looks a very defensive set up so we set up to do the job we are awful at-Defending. We have a very big problem in that we have four centre halves and only Baldwin is up to the task. We looked better yesterday when Ehmer and Kilgour were off the pitch but can we really set up at the start of the match with only one recognised central defender? How can a team create 22 chances and yet not really look like scoring? This is what we are doing and at the other end as long as the opponents can muster three chances it is very likely they will score. This has relegation written all over it. Swindon on Tuesday will probably have the only player on show who knows where the net is - Pitman and that is the player we should have signed in the summer when it was so obvious we would be short of goals. What sort of player is Martinez? Could he start alongside Baldwin in a 4-4-2. IMO we could really have done with an empty week on the training pitch and I am sure JB wishes that too. We really must find a place for Oztumer on Tuesday as he has more attacking instincts than McCo0rmick,Upson and Westbrooke put together and IMO if Nicho0lson is not fit then Ozzy has to start. For me Hanlan is a winger and not a striker so perhaps play him on the right side and start with Daly and Ayunga up front? They say attack is the best form of defence but I am not sure that saying came about because the defenders weren't good enough!! I would go with Day Williams Little/Martinez Baldwin Tutonda Hanlan NcCormick Westbrooke/Leahy Oztumer Ayunga Daly In truth I have the feeling that Joey Barton must be despairing that the team he has taken over has no natural finisher or a commanding centre half.! Do we really set up to defend?? Like you said, we had over 20 shots. We also had a few chances, before Plymouths early goal. The wing backs get forward a lot, we push 3 upfront to press. Even Upson was getting in the box and missed a free header yesterday. McCormick has missed quite a few chances lately. It looked like Kilgore was playing right back a lot of the time at the start yesterday as Williams was pushed up that much. |
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Post by bluegas on Mar 21, 2021 10:21:37 GMT
Steve - dare I suggest that Swindon will in fact have two players on the pitch who know where the goal is? Twine isn't doing badly either.
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Post by stevek192 on Mar 21, 2021 10:26:35 GMT
I think the problem with a back three is that the three centre backs have to be capable of defending like a full back as well.Our problem yesterday was Kilgour did not cover Williams at all and was too slow. it has happened a lot this season on both sides where we get torn apart down the sides.
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Post by playtowin on Mar 21, 2021 10:30:17 GMT
Many neutral/opposition commentators have commented on how well many of the rovers players cross the ball.
Westbrooke
Hare
Williams
Rodman
Leahy
McCormick.
With so many good crossers of the ball you wonder the issue.
Its simple.
There is nobody who can attack the ball in the air.
Rodman is possibly the best or kilgour maybe.
Ayunga for all his good ground work is hopeless in the air (except in defence it seems).
So who can Rovers put in the box to get on the end of all these good crosses ?
Find that person at the club and Rovers stay up.
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Post by bluebiro on Mar 21, 2021 11:08:08 GMT
If.on Tuesday we play with 5 at the back defending on the 22 yard.line against the speed of pitman then we deserve to go down. Maybe time to play Martinez in a back 4 with a higher line.he cant be slower or worse then the current batch of slugs
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Post by sodburygas on Mar 21, 2021 11:19:14 GMT
Steve K. Hanlan has scored the same amount of goals as Pitman. So why should we of signed Pitman who is never going to have any sell on value and would want more money than Hanlan?. You say must play Oztuhmer. He has not scored a league goal for nearly 3 whole seasons!!.
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Post by tanned on Mar 21, 2021 11:48:16 GMT
I have been speaking to a work colleague who is a Charlton supporter. his fellow addicks said we steam rollered them in the first half
but they reckoned we lacked fitness in the sercond half and then they dominated as we tired. I noted that JB mentioned our fitness. It all stems back to pre season.
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Post by tanned on Mar 21, 2021 11:48:46 GMT
I have been speaking to a work colleague who is a Charlton supporter. his fellow addicks said we steam rollered them in the first half
but they reckoned we lacked fitness in the sercond half and then they dominated as we tired. I noted that JB mentioned our fitness. It all stems back to pre season.
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Post by Raj Gas on Mar 21, 2021 13:22:59 GMT
The big problem as I see it is that every week we set up with what looks a very defensive set up so we set up to do the job we are awful at-Defending. We have a very big problem in that we have four centre halves and only Baldwin is up to the task. We looked better yesterday when Ehmer and Kilgour were off the pitch but can we really set up at the start of the match with only one recognised central defender? How can a team create 22 chances and yet not really look like scoring? This is what we are doing and at the other end as long as the opponents can muster three chances it is very likely they will score. This has relegation written all over it. Swindon on Tuesday will probably have the only player on show who knows where the net is - Pitman and that is the player we should have signed in the summer when it was so obvious we would be short of goals. What sort of player is Martinez? Could he start alongside Baldwin in a 4-4-2. IMO we could really have done with an empty week on the training pitch and I am sure JB wishes that too. We really must find a place for Oztumer on Tuesday as he has more attacking instincts than McCo0rmick,Upson and Westbrooke put together and IMO if Nicho0lson is not fit then Ozzy has to start. For me Hanlan is a winger and not a striker so perhaps play him on the right side and start with Daly and Ayunga up front? They say attack is the best form of defence but I am not sure that saying came about because the defenders weren't good enough!! I would go with Day Williams Little/Martinez Baldwin Tutonda Hanlan NcCormick Westbrooke/Leahy Oztumer Ayunga Daly In truth I have the feeling that Joey Barton must be despairing that the team he has taken over has no natural finisher or a commanding centre half.! Do we really set up to defend?? Like you said, we had over 20 shots. We also had a few chances, before Plymouths early goal. The wing backs get forward a lot, we push 3 upfront to press. Even Upson was getting in the box and missed a free header yesterday. McCormick has missed quite a few chances lately. It looked like Kilgore was playing right back a lot of the time at the start yesterday as Williams was pushed up that much. If you look at the two goals Williams was doing his best to be a statue on the corner of the box and pointing at Kilgour to do all the work. I think the commentators said that Ehmer and Kilgour swapped around early on as they could obviously see the danger down that side, Kilgour has his critics but yesterday he seemed to have far more sense of what was going on around them and far more than his experienced colleagues. |
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Post by kampucheagas on Mar 21, 2021 13:55:23 GMT
With our current woes I’d be tempted to go back to basics and play a back 4.
The problem we have is we are lacking in any real bite in the middle of the park, the only real defensive midfielder at the club is Ogogo and for me he’s been the biggest loss for us in this relegation scrap
Who would you trust in the middle to do the dirty work? Upson is ok when the team are on the front foot but is too slow and ponderous for me. McCormick has been best when in the middle of a 3 behind the striker. With no Rodman or Nicholson we lack any width or cleverness around the top end.
With what we have at present I’d go, against Swindon
Day
Williams
Kilgour
Baldwin
Hare
Upson
McCormick
Leahy
Ozzy
Westbrook
Ayunga
3-4-2-1
Hanlan needs to be dropped. It’s like flogging a dead horse. I wouldn’t be against seeing Walker for Westbrook although he can be dangerous if played high enough. He can’t tackle so you need him creating.
I also think Tutonda could play in the 2 behind Ayunga if Oz is not performing.
Whatever Barton does he has 10 games to somehow find a formula and formation that gives us the best chance of scoring the goals to keep us up. I don’t envy him!
UTG
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Post by lastminutewinner on Mar 21, 2021 13:55:29 GMT
I agree, the more you set up to defend, the more you will invite pressure. The only concern I would have with the personnel is two changes to the defence may upset things. Id possible go Baldwin and Tutonda as CB with Leahy LB which would leave Westbrook in the midfield. But in principle I agree, I'd get Daly in also as her is energetic and will run into the ground for you and could feed off of Ayunga Absolutely. Perfect for a high press style which works so well against a lot of teams in this league. Begs the question why he is always overlooked, for Hanlan, who gives the impression he has problems tying his shoelaces |
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Post by percy on Mar 21, 2021 13:56:11 GMT
I’m optimistic we might see Anssi back on Tuesday or Saturday at least. Will be a huge boost to the defence.
Think we defiantly need to fit Ozzy, Tutonda and Hare in on Tuesday and be more attack minded.
Wish he’d give Walker a go from the bench. Maybe start with Daly and drop Hanlon completely.
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Post by warwickgas on Mar 21, 2021 14:02:18 GMT
Are you visiting Richard Walker? Hope you’re not breaking the Covid rules !
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Post by daniel300380 on Mar 21, 2021 14:07:02 GMT
Do we really set up to defend?? Like you said, we had over 20 shots. We also had a few chances, before Plymouths early goal. The wing backs get forward a lot, we push 3 upfront to press. Even Upson was getting in the box and missed a free header yesterday. McCormick has missed quite a few chances lately. It looked like Kilgore was playing right back a lot of the time at the start yesterday as Williams was pushed up that much. If you look at the two goals Williams was doing his best to be a statue on the corner of the box and pointing at Kilgour to do all the work. I think the commentators said that Ehmer and Kilgour swapped around early on as they could obviously see the danger down that side, Kilgour has his critics but yesterday he seemed to have far more sense of what was going on around them and far more than his experienced colleagues. They didn’t change, Kilgour started on the right, but the commentator didn’t notice until ten minutes in and thought they had changed. Can’t blame them though, they were probably concentrating on the Plymouth set up at first. I noticed Kilgour on the right straight away. |
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Post by warwickgas on Mar 21, 2021 14:18:25 GMT
I switched the commentary off shortly after the start as I found the incessant inane chatter grating
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Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2021 14:43:29 GMT
What is everyone smoking this morning. Hanlan in a three man midfield? Tutonda as Centre Back? Tutonda as a number ten!
I’ll go for Anssi up front alongside Ayunga.
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Post by miltongas on Mar 21, 2021 15:05:42 GMT
What is everyone smoking this morning. Hanlan in a three man midfield? Tutonda as Centre Back? Tutonda as a number ten! I’ll go for Anssi up front alongside Ayunga. Virgo on the wing? |
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