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Post by gulfofaden on Apr 18, 2021 9:12:03 GMT
I was very excited about the Garner project and playing good football. I thought a team full of talented youngsters was a great idea and even that provided you had quality through the team, we could lose JCH.
What I’ve learned is that football isn’t about stats, or tactics. As Brian Clough said “tactics don’t lose you matches, players lose you matches”
We’ve clearly done all the due dilligence on the metrics. Passes completed, runs made, etc. What this has shown is that football isn’t a science, it’s an art. We are smart monkeys - animals with a large brain. We have social structures and hierarchies. Football is a proxy for the tribal wars of old, in evolutionary terms it’s been 5 minutes since we were raiding those in Gloucester for their grain and burning their mud huts down.
What stats don’t tell you is how dominant and sting willed that player is. Will they crumble when under pressure. Are they are a leader? Do they have a will to win? My father always told me if you’re in a tight spot and likely getting a hiding, if you have to fight, go for their “leader first, try to hurt them and the others will back right off and you can get away. This is the logic of human competition.
It’s what happened all year. Jelly legs, insecurity, our smart monkeys had no nasty guys who would fight to the death. We had a load of boys. This isn’t to say they are bad people - or that they’re weak, or that they won’t one day become leaders. They just aren’t now. They don’t have the mileage.
This season has taught me the value of experience and that human dynamics and personality are more important than talent. I refuse to believe this squad didn’t have the talent to survive. I neither believe the tactics were wrong. A goal scorer or two would have helped, but the main issue was, when the chips were down, nobody believed we could win. We were fazed, what the Americans called “shook”. We were tapping out, “ok mate you win, I’ve had enough”
That’s what was going on. We were a routed army in disarray and running with no major to steady the line.
I never gave this dynamic due prominence and it’s taught me a thing or two about football, and life in general. If you want success it’s not about how good you are, it’s about your will, ability to control your attitude, confidence and belief.
Enough philosophy for today but some of you already knew this and you were totally right, and we’ve all learned something from each other.
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Post by olskooltoteender on Apr 18, 2021 9:17:11 GMT
I was very excited about the Garner project and playing good football. I thought a team full of talented youngsters was a great idea and even that provided you had quality through the team, we could lose JCH. What I’ve learned is that football isn’t about stats, or tactics. As Brian Clough said “tactics don’t lose you matches, players lose you matches” We’ve clearly done all the due dilligence on the metrics. Passes completed, runs made, etc. What this has shown is that football isn’t a science, it’s an art. We are smart monkeys - animals with a large brain. We have social structures and hierarchies. Football is a proxy for the tribal wars of old, in evolutionary terms it’s been 5 minutes since we were raiding those in Gloucester for their grain and burning their mud huts down. What stats don’t tell you is how dominant and sting willed that player is. Will they crumble when under pressure. Are they are a leader? Do they have a will to win? My father always told me if you’re in a tight spot and likely getting a hiding, if you have to fight, go for their “leader first, try to hurt them and the others will back right off and you can get away. This is the logic of human competition. It’s what happened all year. Jelly legs, insecurity, our smart monkeys had no nasty guys who would fight to the death. We had a load of boys. This isn’t to say they are bad people - or that they’re weak, or that they won’t one day become leaders. They just aren’t now. They don’t have the mileage. This season has taught me the value of experience and that human dynamics and personality are more important than talent. I refuse to believe this squad didn’t have the talent to survive. I neither believe the tactics were wrong. A goal scorer or two would have helped, but the main issue was, when the chips were down, nobody believed we could win. We were fazed, what the Americans called “shook”. We were tapping out, “ok mate you win, I’ve had enough” That’s what was going on. We were a routed army in disarray and running with no major to steady the line. Of a couple of lieutenants prepared to chuck a football at the opposing trenches & shout “Follow me, lads . . .” Great post GoA!
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Post by nickchippenhamgas on Apr 18, 2021 9:31:32 GMT
I was very excited about the Garner project and playing good football. I thought a team full of talented youngsters was a great idea and even that provided you had quality through the team, we could lose JCH. What I’ve learned is that football isn’t about stats, or tactics. As Brian Clough said “tactics don’t lose you matches, players lose you matches” We’ve clearly done all the due dilligence on the metrics. Passes completed, runs made, etc. What this has shown is that football isn’t a science, it’s an art. We are smart monkeys - animals with a large brain. We have social structures and hierarchies. Football is a proxy for the tribal wars of old, in evolutionary terms it’s been 5 minutes since we were raiding those in Gloucester for their grain and burning their mud huts down. What stats don’t tell you is how dominant and sting willed that player is. Will they crumble when under pressure. Are they are a leader? Do they have a will to win? My father always told me if you’re in a tight spot and likely getting a hiding, if you have to fight, go for their “leader first, try to hurt them and the others will back right off and you can get away. This is the logic of human competition. It’s what happened all year. Jelly legs, insecurity, our smart monkeys had no nasty guys who would fight to the death. We had a load of boys. This isn’t to say they are bad people - or that they’re weak, or that they won’t one day become leaders. They just aren’t now. They don’t have the mileage. This season has taught me the value of experience and that human dynamics and personality are more important than talent. I refuse to believe this squad didn’t have the talent to survive. I neither believe the tactics were wrong. A goal scorer or two would have helped, but the main issue was, when the chips were down, nobody believed we could win. We were fazed, what the Americans called “shook”. We were tapping out, “ok mate you win, I’ve had enough” That’s what was going on. We were a routed army in disarray and running with no major to steady the line. Of a couple of lieutenants prepared to chuck a football at the opposing trenches & shout “Follow me, lads . . .” Great post GoA! . Well thought out interesting read, and I totally agree, we need to properly interview future managers, if JB ends up in jail and us in league 2, the next manager needs to be good enough, with the right credentials to get us out of league 2, no more appointments for the future on long contacts, I’d give a 1 season contract for the right person, maybe an automatic 1 year extension on instant promotion?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2021 9:39:01 GMT
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Post by bluegas on Apr 18, 2021 10:09:17 GMT
Yeah, great post. Just how I felt. No doubt you and I, and others like us, will be deemed as gullible, but hey ho. FWIW, I picked up on YouTube a documentary on Clough. At the end it concluded that he was all about motivation, not coaching or tactics, and that he was overtaken by the rise of those, and that effectively he couldn't motivate players to overcome them. I'd disagree - simply he grew old and tired and couldn't do it anymore. Coaching is great, so is tactics, but without motivation....
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Apr 18, 2021 10:38:50 GMT
On September 19th last year in the New Signings (old news) thread, I posted:
".....If we don't replace jch with a credible goalscorer, we won't have learned the lesson on Lambo and relegation would beckon again.
I think it's unfair to expect a kid (bless him) and a fledgling striker (Arthur Daley excluded) to take on the burden of scoring 20 goals between them whilst playing up front on their own.
BG says tonight others should take their chances and opportunities, yet fails to notice some of those chances fall to non-strikers and highlight that they weren't taken!? It's literally a mad theory...if chances had fallen to recognised strikers, you would expect a better chance of scoring (TN apart)? But of course, BG only plays 0 or 1 striker at one time...... immediately putting us on back foot."
I've learned that few listen. That was one of the lessons of learning journey 1
Learning journey 2: now learn the lessons of 2001. If anyone thinks it's going to be easy to get out of League 2, no one would have learned anything when lessons have presented themselves to us.
Learning journey 3: we aren't too big to fall out the league all together.
We are making the same mistakes.
We should have recruited great players from poorer clubs, instead of being bedazzled by poorer players from great clubs. That could be a lesson learned should have been a start...
That was one of DC and GC philosophies.
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Post by axegas on Apr 18, 2021 10:43:46 GMT
We ultimately failed to look at one very important stat, how regularly our strikers had scored in league one before. If we’d realised that we didn’t have enough up top and invested some money into changing that, we wouldn’t be in this position.
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Kipper
Reserve Team
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Post by Kipper on Apr 18, 2021 10:45:42 GMT
What are the exciting plans Wael has that so convincingly lured the last three Rovers managers to readily join? Are they all being that gullible to believe this bullshit? Can't see what is so exciting about a supposedly 15,000 seater stadium. All these great plans are a mystery to Rovers loyal fans. We have all been taken for a ride for so long. Got to the stage where i hardly believe a word.
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Apr 18, 2021 11:00:10 GMT
We will all be back next season.
None of us have learned a Dam thing.
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Post by Squiffy on Apr 18, 2021 11:18:09 GMT
We will all be back next season. None of us have learned a f**king thing. But the brain is very good at suppressing traumatic memories through dissociation. Better hope there’s no Gaboxadol secreted in the pasties. 😉
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2021 11:53:03 GMT
We will all be back next season. None of us have learned a f**king thing. You look like the type that can take another. X
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Post by Jomo on Apr 18, 2021 12:16:05 GMT
Great post Gulf. A thoroughly insightful and enjoyable read.
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Post by oldmarket65 on Apr 18, 2021 12:48:43 GMT
What are the exciting plans Wael has that so convincingly lured the last three Rovers managers to readily join? Are they all being that gullible to believe this bullshit? Can't see what is so exciting about a supposedly 15,000 seater stadium. All these great plans are a mystery to Rovers loyal fans. We have all been taken for a ride for so long. Got to the stage where i hardly believe a word. Firstly a good read from the thread starter. What I've learned ?. Never again to build up expectations and believe one person can deliver a new ground and a shot at championship football. I like so many actually believed the 'hype' around Wael and was taken in so much I believed for the first time in 40 years. The problem with having big dreams is you fall when they aren't achieved. So this relegation feels really tuff and hard . Im not attacking Wael just simply acknowledging it was unrealistic to expect immediate progression. I should of read the signs when players started leaving like Bodin Taylor Harrison Brown Lockyer and the biggest bombshell of all JCH signing for Peterboro a club no bigger than ours. This is what I've learned .
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Post by Topper Gas on Apr 18, 2021 13:17:17 GMT
We ultimately failed to look at one very important stat, how regularly our strikers had scored in league one before. If we’d realised that we didn’t have enough up top and invested some money into changing that, we wouldn’t be in this position. Or we thought we could turn every striker into JCH? Oddly, under BG we look like we might with Hanlan as he was on target to score 15+ goals, perhaps he would have done if Nicholson, Ozt. and Rodders had kept fit, or at least fitter.
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Post by Goose on Apr 18, 2021 13:21:43 GMT
A great reasoned post... Backs up arguments, articulate and will thought out.
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Post by gulfofaden on Apr 20, 2021 16:36:51 GMT
A great reasoned post... Backs up arguments, articulate and will thought out. I can assure you in real life I’m a malcontent drunk
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