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Post by stevek192 on Dec 30, 2022 21:02:16 GMT
Despite the many good results we get there is nothing more frustrating than 11 players back for a corner. It invites the opposition to press forward and causes in my opinion the many long shots which we concede as well as the fact even with all our players back we still manage to concede. With the skill and speed we possess we should be keeping at leasr twp players up the pitch and players also on the edge of the box.The fact is that half the players back cannot clear a ball and certainly most of them can't or dont head the ball.
It is usually clear to see that the goals we score are mainly excelent goals and the majority we concede are bloody awful.I feel we have a team that is great to watch in attack but allow the opposition far too much of the ball. I would very much like to see a ball winning centre half who wins the majority of headers and who LEADs the team from the back-It appears far too silent at the back.
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Post by Topper Gas on Dec 30, 2022 21:12:48 GMT
Out of interest when did we last score a goal from an opponents corner, I can't think of one for years?
I assume if Kilgour moves on that will free up a space and money for another CH, problem is will Kilgour move on or just sit and see out his contract and then become a free agent in the summer.
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Post by kampucheagas on Dec 30, 2022 21:25:40 GMT
I think the point is, if you leave 2 pacy players up top, naturally the opposition need to leave at least 2 defenders back, meaning both they are not in your box, and you have an outlet should the ball be cleared up field.
Personally I think individually our young defenders are good players but they are inexperienced and perhaps need an older head or a commanding presence there to help them
I’d have Taylor back in a flash, I notice every game he’s on Stokes bench, so it looks unlikely, shame as he’s more than good enough to be playing every week!!
UTG
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Post by Tilly's Thighs on Dec 30, 2022 21:41:47 GMT
Out of interest when did we last score a goal from an opponents corner, I can't think of one for years? I assume if Kilgour moves on that will free up a space and money for another CH, problem is will Kilgour move on or just sit and see out his contract and then become a free agent in the summer. I believe that Kilgour wanted a move before the summer transfer window closed, as he knew that his style of play didn't fit with the set up Joey wanted. He was encouraged to stay and fight for his place, I think that if a decent move comes his way in January, he'll take the opportunity. |
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Post by bluebiro on Dec 31, 2022 7:40:11 GMT
Are there any teams that do not bring all their players back for corners in this division?can't think of any I've seen this season and even if teams go a goal down are reluctant to change the set up.
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Post by miltongas on Dec 31, 2022 8:13:12 GMT
I’ve said this time and again. Leaving one, reasonably fast player up means the oppo have to leave 2 back. And it gives us a chance of collecting a ball that bounces out of the area. At the moment whenever we clear it - especially with a header - it goes straight to them to come back in. In the current team someone like Evans would be ideal. He’s skilful enough to keep the ball but not a great loss defensively in the area.
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Post by Russgas on Dec 31, 2022 10:36:30 GMT
Not only keep two players up ,but i would have them both take up their positions on opposite touchlines, that would force the defending team to keep three defenders back.
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Post by stapletongas on Dec 31, 2022 10:50:49 GMT
Despite the many good results we get there is nothing more frustrating than 11 players back for a corner. It invites the opposition to press forward and causes in my opinion the many long shots which we concede as well as the fact even with all our players back we still manage to concede. With the skill and speed we possess we should be keeping at leasr twp players up the pitch and players also on the edge of the box.The fact is that half the players back cannot clear a ball and certainly most of them can't or dont head the ball. It is usually clear to see that the goals we score are mainly excelent goals and the majority we concede are bloody awful.I feel we have a team that is great to watch in attack but allow the opposition far too much of the ball. I would very much like to see a ball winning centre half who wins the majority of headers and who LEADs the team from the back-It appears far too silent at the back. Ah the old numbers conundrum. I’ve done this in local football. Golden rule of defending is that you always have +1 defender to attacker, so if you leave 1 striker on the half way line the opposition keep 2 back. I’ve had 3 strikers left on the half way line and watched the opposition fathom out that the back 4 can’t go up for the corner, well till they work out others to stay back there. The pros and cons surround space in the box. If your players are dominant then they have more room to get their head on the ball without dealing with congestion in the box. On the other hand the alternative can work for the opposition resulting in conceding. My experience is park football and a very different world from the top 4 tiers of the game. It would take a very brave coach to do it and a coach at that who is very confident their defenders will win the 18 yard box battle. I would consider why no one does it in the pro game if you want the answer. |
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Post by Big Jock on Dec 31, 2022 11:00:23 GMT
Despite the many good results we get there is nothing more frustrating than 11 players back for a corner. It invites the opposition to press forward and causes in my opinion the many long shots which we concede as well as the fact even with all our players back we still manage to concede. With the skill and speed we possess we should be keeping at leasr twp players up the pitch and players also on the edge of the box.The fact is that half the players back cannot clear a ball and certainly most of them can't or dont head the ball. It is usually clear to see that the goals we score are mainly excelent goals and the majority we concede are bloody awful.I feel we have a team that is great to watch in attack but allow the opposition far too much of the ball. I would very much like to see a ball winning centre half who wins the majority of headers and who LEADs the team from the back-It appears far too silent at the back. Ah the old numbers conundrum. I’ve done this in local football. Golden rule of defending is that you always have +1 defender to attacker, so if you leave 1 striker on the half way line the opposition keep 2 back. I’ve had 3 strikers left on the half way line and watched the opposition fathom out that the back 4 can’t go up for the corner, well till they work out others to stay back there. The pros and cons surround space in the box. If your players are dominant then they have more room to get their head on the ball without dealing with congestion in the box. On the other hand the alternative can work for the opposition resulting in conceding. My experience is park football and a very different world from the top 4 tiers of the game. It would take a very brave coach to do it and a coach at that who is very confident their defenders will win the 18 yard box battle. I would consider why no one does it in the pro game if you want the answer. Spot on Stapleton, th ‘leave players up at an opposition corner’ is a kids level tactic, th professional modern game is much more complex an it often leaves you vulnerable imo 👍🏼 |
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Post by bluebiro on Dec 31, 2022 11:00:30 GMT
Despite the many good results we get there is nothing more frustrating than 11 players back for a corner. It invites the opposition to press forward and causes in my opinion the many long shots which we concede as well as the fact even with all our players back we still manage to concede. With the skill and speed we possess we should be keeping at leasr twp players up the pitch and players also on the edge of the box.The fact is that half the players back cannot clear a ball and certainly most of them can't or dont head the ball. It is usually clear to see that the goals we score are mainly excelent goals and the majority we concede are bloody awful.I feel we have a team that is great to watch in attack but allow the opposition far too much of the ball. I would very much like to see a ball winning centre half who wins the majority of headers and who LEADs the team from the back-It appears far too silent at the back. Ah the old numbers conundrum. I’ve done this in local football. Golden rule of defending is that you always have +1 defender to attacker, so if you leave 1 striker on the half way line the opposition keep 2 back. I’ve had 3 strikers left on the half way line and watched the opposition fathom out that the back 4 can’t go up for the corner, well till they work out others to stay back there. The pros and cons surround space in the box. If your players are dominant then they have more room to get their head on the ball without dealing with congestion in the box. On the other hand the alternative can work for the opposition resulting in conceding. My experience is park football and a very different world from the top 4 tiers of the game. It would take a very brave coach to do it and a coach at that who is very confident their defenders will win the 18 yard box battle. I would consider why no one does it in the pro game if you want the answer. buckle did this during pre season and worked well against inferior opposition. Set up the same way in the first home match against torquay. Then after going 2 0 down that tactic was never tried again.imagine conceding goals at corners because you had players up front. Reaction on here would be priceless |
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Post by stevek192 on Jan 29, 2023 10:37:05 GMT
Our problem is that we regularly concede with all eleven players back! Our problem with all eleven back is that we dont clear our lines well enough and therefore invite the opposition to attack again. Add to that the fact that our attackers and midfielders and wing backs as a group are not very good defenders. I say keep players up and see what happens. Defenders have to be accountable for themselves and do their jobs.
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Post by Quarters on Jan 29, 2023 10:44:13 GMT
Our problem is that we regularly concede with all eleven players back! Our problem with all eleven back is that we dont clear our lines well enough and therefore invite the opposition to attack again. Add to that the fact that our attackers and midfielders and wing backs as a group are not very good defenders. I say keep players up and see what happens. Defenders have to be accountable for themselves and do their jobs. What other teams leave players up front at corners? |
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Jan 29, 2023 10:45:17 GMT
All our play is to encourage the opposition to push on to us.
We've got to be smarter against teams that don't play like we do.
I would have gone more direct v Morecambe instead of having nearly 70% possession in areas that don't matter, and then conceding 5 because of their precise passing.
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Post by stevek192 on Jan 29, 2023 11:19:44 GMT
Quarters it doesnt matter what other teams do. The fact is that we are no good at breaking from all back and most of our attacking players are no good at defending. We have conceded loads of goals with eleven back so why not try something different and just make sure players are marked.
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Post by warwickgas on Jan 29, 2023 11:30:18 GMT
I would leave Collins up front on the halfway line out wide. This would force the opposition to leave two defenders back to avoid a one on one break when we clear the corner. Collins has the pace to take advantage but he has none of the attributes needed to defend a corner so his contribution in our box might be no better than nuisance value.
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Post by The Equaliser on Jan 29, 2023 11:34:19 GMT
Pep started keeping defending corners like this at the beggining of his managerial career and because of the success stats of all 11 players staying back to defend many others have followed.
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Post by gasmania on Jan 29, 2023 12:18:49 GMT
This is Paul Warne's view on it, if anyone is interested.
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Post by gulfofaden on Jan 30, 2023 20:34:05 GMT
The stats might say it’s more productive than leaving players up top. The issue with stats and application is most are derived from the highest level in the game. I would imagine there isn’t the money to do huge studies in L1 and lower.
Garner found out about that, that theories at the top don’t translate down the leagues. We can see frequently how % football is more effective.
Morecombe - we had 18 shots to their 12. 70% possession.
Attacking is like hitting a wall of players. Their attacks are against a sieve defence, backing off…
Stats on the lower leagues may be different.
I still say stick with JB. He’s just had his 2nd window and it might take 4 to get the team right.
Last year he said promotion and we got it
This year he said mid table consolidation. He has not said we are getting promoted.
One of the things which I look for in many aspects career wise is a bad loser. Bad losers are invariable like that because they are driven to win.
The look on JB face after that morecombe game was telling. He was fuming and rattled. That is a good sign in people when you’re trying to build a winning mentality.
He’s been ruthless with Belly and will do so with others. That’s what you need to be to win. No other way.
I’m not certain it’s going to work, lots of life is outside of our control, but bad losers are people who win eventually.
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Post by Gasshole on Jan 30, 2023 20:35:47 GMT
The correct answer is to leave 2 players up. With less traffic in the box the keeper should dominate a bigger area ,after all he has an advantage of probably 2 feet with his arms up.Nobody should be out jumping him with a header. So don’t restrict has advantage by blocking his movements.The more players the oppo have to leave back the better, especially if they are big unit centre halves who are traditionally exceptional at heading and usually the best players on the pitch. Yes I wear the number 5.
On average you need to take 17 corners to score a goal, not sure why the crowd always gets so pumped up every time we get one.
That’s all folks.
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Post by lastminutewinner on Jan 31, 2023 11:53:35 GMT
The correct answer is to leave 2 players up. With less traffic in the box the keeper should dominate a bigger area ,after all he has an advantage of probably 2 feet with his arms up.Nobody should be out jumping him with a header. So don’t restrict has advantage by blocking his movements.The more players the oppo have to leave back the better, especially if they are big unit centre halves who are traditionally exceptional at heading and usually the best players on the pitch. Yes I wear the number 5. On average you need to take 17 corners to score a goal, not sure why the crowd always gets so pumped up every time we get one. That’s all folks. That average drops significantly when the opposition is us |
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