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Post by LJG on Sept 17, 2015 14:14:42 GMT
Not apathetic or lacking in ambition at all really. Quite the opposite. Well it's not really completely different to Darlington is it? The Darlington Arena has a 25,000 capacity. When they moved there in 2003 they were playing in Division Three (current league two). Their average attendances were around the 5,000 mark when they did. So what exactly are the differences? Size of stadium? No. League position? No. Average attendance? Not really. Financial situation? Hmm ... nope. You can't see any similarities there? Like I've said previously - just because those other clubs were taken on and run properly - which included a stadium (re)development - that doesn't mean that a new stadium is the magic answer as the Darlington example very clearly shows. Is this a joke??? Do you know where Darlington is?? What clubs they have near them already etc??? They didn't have a catchment area for new fans. Do you know where Bristol is??? The catchment area etc?? Darlington were doomed before it started they were never going to compete with the clubs around them. Well since Bristol is such a huge City that must mean Rovers average attendance is far greater than Darlington's was at the same level then right? Only ... it's not. That's not how it works.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2015 14:18:16 GMT
As I have said we haven't had the capacity to accommodate above 12,000 for 35 years so how do we know, are you saying that if we were to host Man U we would not fill a 21,000 stadium if we had one. I think I'm talking about average attendance. How many times a season do we get to play Man U? Even if we were in the Prem? How many seasons in the last 35 years has our average attendance been anywhere near ground capacity? I am not going to argue this as I've already proved a point , However you cannot base need for 21,000 or any size on average attendances as average attendances cover large and small gates over a season for instance to get an average of 15,000 you may have gates of below 8,000 and you may have gates of above 20,000, but in order to average 15,000 you have to have the capacity to hold more. .
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Post by newmarketgas on Sept 17, 2015 14:20:14 GMT
This is Bristol, it's filled with lentil eating Greens, they are never going to watch football. Bristol is a huge city but it it's turning into the largest village, no room for football from the 'new' Bristolians. We need to face up to the idea that 12,000 - 15,000 is pretty much the best we can hope for in the near future.
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Post by LJG on Sept 17, 2015 14:21:49 GMT
I think I'm talking about average attendance. How many times a season do we get to play Man U? Even if we were in the Prem? How many seasons in the last 35 years has our average attendance been anywhere near ground capacity? I am not going to argue this as I've already proved a point , However you cannot base need for 21,000 or any size on average attendances as average attendances cover large and small gates over a season for instance to get an average of 15,000 you may have gates of below 8,000 and you may have gates of above 20,000, but in order to average 15,000 you have to have the capacity to hold more. .
You haven't really proved a point. I said my figures were based on memory and you kindly provided th e correct ones which showed our average highest attendance 40 years ago was 2000 smaller than I thought it had been. I think what you've just said rather proves my point. We would have a 21,000 seater stadium and only be using about 40% of it most of the time. Just because you can fill it once a season if you're lucky doesn't mean it's a justified expense.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2015 14:39:37 GMT
We would not be giving £8m away we would be paying back £8m that was loaned. Yes it is a great shame that we don't have directors who are willing to write that sort of money of, but we are where we are But the reason we owe £8m is due to their ineptitude. Why should the club pay them off? And where does the club get its money from? Us. Because the money is loaned if the club relied solely on gate receipts we would probably have been bankrupt years ago.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2015 14:43:20 GMT
This is Bristol, it's filled with lentil eating Greens, they are never going to watch football. Bristol is a huge city but it it's turning into the largest village, no room for football from the 'new' Bristolians. We need to face up to the idea that 12,000 - 15,000 is pretty much the best we can hope for in the near future. I'm not sure its the best we can EVER hope for, but it'd take something pretty miraculous. I would actually suggest that the population of Bristol is very fickle re: sport, and will turn out if one of the teams is doing well. If us or City ever reached the top flight, it'd be a sell out every single week, up to around 25/30k I reckon. Its a paradox though, because no support = no success = no support. What we'd give for the footballing dedication of say, Sheffield. Look at the way that Bristol clings on to any local 'sports stars' if they do well in a sport, yet none of these same people go out and support that sport at grassroots level.
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Post by BishopstonBRFC on Sept 17, 2015 14:46:52 GMT
But the reason we owe £8m is due to their ineptitude. Why should the club pay them off? And where does the club get its money from? Us. Because the money is loaned if the club relied solely on gate receipts we would probably have been bankrupt years ago. But that is due to the ridiculous over spending of not long ago. As has been said time and time again there are clubs with dark less revenue than us but are miles ahead of us both on and off the pitch.
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Post by dave on Sept 17, 2015 14:49:50 GMT
I've just spent an hour reading through this thread. Very interesting & thoughtprovoking comments from many posters. One of the things that bothering me at the moment is the constant speculation that there is an ideal investment opportunity with us here at the moment.
Is the opportunity really with BRFC or just an investement opportunity to tap into a large market in the Greater Bristol area?
Imho every month that goes by and the stadium expansion carries on full tilt south of the river the attractiveness of BRFC diminishes. Why would you want to invest into an organistation that will, if plan A doesnt work (and lets face it thats the only scenario that will need an investor), give you a stadium about half the size of another new stadium in the same city? The team that plays there have also been somewhat more successful in the past decade or so anyway, this also make us less attractive.
Surely if you were an investor with bundles of cash you might be more tempted to invest in an area where you have a monopoly on the market and wont be competing against an already 'more' successful competitor. I know BRFC is a good old club with diehard supporters but we ARE the poor relation where football in Bristol is concerned.
Lets face it, our recent history hasn't shown us to be a good, sound investment has it!!!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2015 14:52:19 GMT
I've just spent an hour reading through this thread. Very interesting & thoughtprovoking comments from many posters. One of the things that bothering me at the moment is the constant speculation that there is an ideal investment opportunity with us here at the moment. Is the opportunity really with BRFC or just an investement opportunity to tap into a large market in the Greater Bristol area? Imho every month that goes by and the stadium expansion carries on full tilt south of the river the attractiveness of BRFC diminishes. Why would you want to invest into an organistation that will, if plan A doesnt work (and lets face it thats the only scenario that will need an investor), give you a stadium about half the size of another new stadium in the same city? The team that plays there have also been somewhat more successful in the past decade or so anyway, this also make us less attractive. Surely if you were an investor with bundles of cash you might be more tempted to invest in an area where you have a monopoly on the market and wont be competing against an already 'more' successful competitor. I know BRFC is a good old club with diehard supporters but we ARE the poor relation where football in Bristol is concerned. Lets face it, our recent history hasn't shown us to be a good, sound investment has it!!! Awight Dave?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2015 15:15:01 GMT
Because the money is loaned if the club relied solely on gate receipts we would probably have been bankrupt years ago. But that is due to the ridiculous over spending of not long ago. As has been said time and time again there are clubs with dark less revenue than us but are miles ahead of us both on and off the pitch. I'm not dissagreeing that the club has been badly run, but it doesn't change the fact that we have loans which need to be repayed at some stage unless they are written off which seems unlikely. If you think we have been badly run compare our losses to our near neighbours. The difference is we haven't got a billionair owner who will write off loans. It's just the way the mop flops.
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Post by Antonio Fargas on Sept 17, 2015 15:23:01 GMT
But that is due to the ridiculous over spending of not long ago. As has been said time and time again there are clubs with dark less revenue than us but are miles ahead of us both on and off the pitch. I'm not dissagreeing that the club has been badly run, but it doesn't change the fact that we have loans which need to be repayed at some stage unless they are written off which seems unlikely. If you think we have been badly run compare our losses to our near neighbours. The difference is we haven't got a billionair owner who will write off loans. It's just the way the mop flops. Lansdown watered away money he was prepared to lose. It looks like NH watered away the club's money. It's a massive difference. It's like the difference between blowing a grand on a decent holiday, and taking out a grand's loan and then blowing it down the bookies.
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Post by dave on Sept 17, 2015 15:28:01 GMT
I've just spent an hour reading through this thread. Very interesting & thoughtprovoking comments from many posters. One of the things that bothering me at the moment is the constant speculation that there is an ideal investment opportunity with us here at the moment. Is the opportunity really with BRFC or just an investement opportunity to tap into a large market in the Greater Bristol area? Imho every month that goes by and the stadium expansion carries on full tilt south of the river the attractiveness of BRFC diminishes. Why would you want to invest into an organistation that will, if plan A doesnt work (and lets face it thats the only scenario that will need an investor), give you a stadium about half the size of another new stadium in the same city? The team that plays there have also been somewhat more successful in the past decade or so anyway, this also make us less attractive. Surely if you were an investor with bundles of cash you might be more tempted to invest in an area where you have a monopoly on the market and wont be competing against an already 'more' successful competitor. I know BRFC is a good old club with diehard supporters but we ARE the poor relation where football in Bristol is concerned. Lets face it, our recent history hasn't shown us to be a good, sound investment has it!!! Awight Dave? Struggling a bit, you?
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Post by Gastafari on Sept 17, 2015 15:32:24 GMT
Darlington is a completely different kettle of fish, and their situation has no similarities whatsoever. If Rovers were planning on building a 75,000 stadium then it might have some similarities, but we aren't, so it doesn't. What do the clubs that have already been mentioned that have overtaken us considerably over the last decade all got in common? Do you think that Swansea would be a top 7 Premier League club if they were still at The Vetch? Do you think that Hull would have risen to The Premier League if they stayed at Boothferry Park playing in front of barely 3,000 fans? Do you think Brighton would be top of The Championship if they had stayed at The Withdean? All those clubs had ambition of where they wanted their clubs to be, its about time we did the same. Your attitude sums up perfectly my post earlier in the thread, about our supporters apathy and lack of ambition. Not apathetic or lacking in ambition at all really. Quite the opposite. Well it's not really completely different to Darlington is it? The Darlington Arena has a 25,000 capacity. When they moved there in 2003 they were playing in Division Three (current league two). Their average attendances were around the 5,000 mark when they did. So what exactly are the differences? Size of stadium? No. League position? No. Average attendance? Not really. Financial situation? Hmm ... nope. You can't see any similarities there? Like I've said previously - just because those other clubs were taken on and run properly - which included a stadium (re)development - that doesn't mean that a new stadium is the magic answer as the Darlington example very clearly shows. It is a completely different situation. I cant be bothered to write it on here, but google is there for you if you want to read up on it. Darlingtons average attendance has been between 2-3,000 all throughout their history, apart from for a few years when they first moved in to their new stadium, and only then because local rivals Hartlepool would bring a few thousand supporters down the road to boost it. Darlington's situation really isn't similar. Darlington is a small market town with a population less than 100,000 and has 3 big clubs in Newcastle, Sunderland and Middlesbrough less than 30 miles away. Hartlepool are also a bigger club just down the road. Bristol is the 6th largest City in the country, with a population of circa 500,000, and a population of nearly 1.5000,000 if you include the outer regions of North Somerset and South Gloucestershire. Rovers only have City to contend with, and the nearest Premier League clubs are 90 odd miles away. It is about time we had the facilities to take Bristol as a city forward. Of course it is not just a question of building it, we need to have proper planning behind it. But I hate to see Rovers being left behind while historically smaller clubs than us, are prospering because of ambition while we carry on stagnating into a joke 4th Division club. Yet some of our fans are more worried about comparing us to Dam Darlington.
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Post by LJG on Sept 17, 2015 16:18:14 GMT
Not apathetic or lacking in ambition at all really. Quite the opposite. Well it's not really completely different to Darlington is it? The Darlington Arena has a 25,000 capacity. When they moved there in 2003 they were playing in Division Three (current league two). Their average attendances were around the 5,000 mark when they did. So what exactly are the differences? Size of stadium? No. League position? No. Average attendance? Not really. Financial situation? Hmm ... nope. You can't see any similarities there? Like I've said previously - just because those other clubs were taken on and run properly - which included a stadium (re)development - that doesn't mean that a new stadium is the magic answer as the Darlington example very clearly shows. It is a completely different situation. I cant be bothered to write it on here, but google is there for you if you want to read up on it. Darlingtons average attendance has been between 2-3,000 all throughout their history, apart from for a few years when they first moved in to their new stadium, and only then because local rivals Hartlepool would bring a few thousand supporters down the road to boost it. Darlington's situation really isn't similar. Darlington is a small market town with a population less than 100,000 and has 3 big clubs in Newcastle, Sunderland and Middlesbrough less than 30 miles away. Hartlepool are also a bigger club just down the road. Bristol is the 6th largest City in the country, with a population of circa 500,000, and a population of nearly 1.5000,000 if you include the outer regions of North Somerset and South Gloucestershire. Rovers only have City to contend with, and the nearest Premier League clubs are 90 odd miles away. It is about time we had the facilities to take Bristol as a city forward. Of course it is not just a question of building it, we need to have proper planning behind it. But I hate to see Rovers being left behind while historically smaller clubs than us, are prospering because of ambition while we carry on stagnating into a joke 4th Division club. Yet some of our fans are more worried about comparing us to f**king Darlington. Because based on league position, and circumstance it is a valid comparison. The argument about the size of Bristol falls down because we have a clear comparable - City. Hey, they only had Rovers to contend with when they were 90 minutes away from the premiership but weren't looking at a full house. Saying that a stadium expansion is the magic answer is just nonsense. Running things properly is a far more urgent requirement. New facilities would no doubt come from that. But it is possible to * big things up too. Especially when you're *ing something small up. If someone came to you and said "I've got a little corner shop and I'll be buggered if I can make it work. I'm in 8 mil of debt, 2.5 mil of it on a wonga loan, I planned my break even to be about a third greater than what my historic footfall is and I can never be bothered to make the most of opportunities like getting Christmas stuff in in December and I order easter eggs too late so they arrive two weeks after easter sunday". You wouldn't say to them "You should invest 30 mil in a massive supermarket. That way you'll have more customers to generate greater income" would you?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2015 16:27:45 GMT
Awight Dave? Struggling a bit, you? Fakin Saaaand san. Yuw aint got any contacts in the motor trade av ya? Im lookin faw a 1987 Cavalier ed gasket.
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Post by dave on Sept 17, 2015 17:18:22 GMT
Fakin Saaaand san. Yuw aint got any contacts in the motor trade av ya? Im lookin faw a 1987 Cavalier ed gasket. Sorry, I think you may have mistaken me for soomeone else. I work for the NHS and I dont do cars. Are you sure your on the right forum?
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Post by Topper Gas on Sept 17, 2015 17:26:19 GMT
I'm not dissagreeing that the club has been badly run, but it doesn't change the fact that we have loans which need to be repayed at some stage unless they are written off which seems unlikely. If you think we have been badly run compare our losses to our near neighbours. The difference is we haven't got a billionair owner who will write off loans. It's just the way the mop flops. Lansdown watered away money he was prepared to lose. It looks like NH watered away the club's money. It's a massive difference. It's like the difference between blowing a grand on a decent holiday, and taking out a grand's loan and then blowing it down the bookies. But how much as NH lost due to poor management against just being very unlucky that Opal pulled out of the Mem re-development due to the banking crisis and Sainsbury's pulled out due to competition from Aldi/Lidl after Trash delayed matters? I don't think any of us complained when when either project was originally announced? Probably £5m of the total debts has gone on failed stadium projects.
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Post by LJG on Sept 17, 2015 17:44:46 GMT
Lansdown watered away money he was prepared to lose. It looks like NH watered away the club's money. It's a massive difference. It's like the difference between blowing a grand on a decent holiday, and taking out a grand's loan and then blowing it down the bookies. But how much as NH lost due to poor management against just being very unlucky that Opal pulled out of the Mem re-development due to the banking crisis and Sainsbury's pulled out due to competition from Aldi/Lidl after Trash delayed matters? I don't think any of us complained when when either project was originally announced? Probably £5m of the total debts has gone on failed stadium projects. One word - watertight. It's always suspicious when person is "very unlucky" in very similar ways isn't it?
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Post by Topper Gas on Sept 17, 2015 17:48:41 GMT
I doubt NH could forecast that both the banking crisis and the demise of the big supermarkets would come to his aid? I just hope Plan B is not being funded by an oil company!
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Post by gasincider on Sept 17, 2015 17:57:55 GMT
If any of you went to Gateshead last season, that is a sports complex. Tell me how you would expand that WHEN we are successful. We need a dedicated football ground, and that is not plan B.
Besides, if someone came in and built a full sized UWE wouldn't they want a team worthy of playing there as well?
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