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Post by curlywurly on Mar 4, 2016 21:33:20 GMT
On your first point, there was broad public consultation prior to final plans being submitted and as a result of that consultation, the plans were changed to incorporate the views of the community. Changes included more affordable housing, a community room and improvements to the memorial garden as well as some others that I'll look up if you wish. Remember the backdrop to this. ROSE vehemently opposed the proposed improvements to the Memorial Ground as a sporting venue. TRASH opposed the development of a Supermarket and then adopted the Carstairs view of the sanctity of the Memorial as a Sporting venue. I don't doubt that some involved believed in the cause, but the common support for the contradictory positions of both ROSE and TRASH and the ACV show that the main thrust of these organisations was simply to oppose anything that Rovers put forward. Do they represent the community? Not a majority in my view, but they were vociferous and organised - it is much easier to organise an opposition than a support for change. Rovers continuously engage with the community, quietly, effectively, but they can never convince a prominent minority of NIMBYs of any change. Hopefully, it won't matter to Rovers now. But working WITH Radice? You've got to be kidding. So if Rovers had been more proactive and created a public voice for those in favour of the various stadium projects ,ensuring they got very good media coverage it may have made the opponent's look like the minority you suggest they were. My own opinion is that since putting a roof on the clubhouse terrace and getting in the 'temporary stand' (haha...how long does the word temporary cover !) At the south end of the ground ,everything else stadium related has been not far off of a shambles. But that is the past, a clean sheet now with the new boys and I'm optimistic they will achieve things to take the club into a more respectable position on and off the pitch. You miss my point. Anything (within reason) that Rovers did would not have effectively counteracted the corrosive and negative campaign that TRASH/Carstiairs mounted. Why, because the media and the legal process will always give these timewasters the oxygen of publicity and their 24 months in court. Scrafton and Willingham in particular were shown to be complete idiots, but it still did not stop TRASH mounting a delaying campaign that lost in the courts, but won their ultimate aim. You can look back at the Higgs regime and, possibly with justification, label it a shambles, but just look at the environment that they had to operate in. Living away from Bristol, I have seen over the years how far behind the city is other parts of the country in promoting development. Perhaps it is part of the city's slightly quirky charm, but noone can get anything meaningful done.
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Post by BishopstonBRFC on Mar 4, 2016 21:35:15 GMT
Just about the only thing that PP would be granted for up there is housing. Even she couldn't stop that. But we all seem to forget that PP has already been granted for a structure to be built on that site. Why not offer it again to all the major stores to build within the approved profile? We may not get £28m for it, but as long as it is sold at a profit, it will be off our hands. How about an indoor market with the emphasis on selling at discounted rates exactly what the shopkeepers who objected to us sell. Undermine their businesses by undercutting them. Nothing illegal about that. Yet they've completely ignored the Lidl planned for Muller Road.
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Post by BishopstonBRFC on Mar 4, 2016 21:37:06 GMT
So if Rovers had been more proactive and created a public voice for those in favour of the various stadium projects ,ensuring they got very good media coverage it may have made the opponent's look like the minority you suggest they were. My own opinion is that since putting a roof on the clubhouse terrace and getting in the 'temporary stand' (haha...how long does the word temporary cover !) At the south end of the ground ,everything else stadium related has been not far off of a shambles. But that is the past, a clean sheet now with the new boys and I'm optimistic they will achieve things to take the club into a more respectable position on and off the pitch. You miss my point. Anything (within reason) that Rovers did would not have effectively counteracted the corrosive and negative campaign that TRASH/Carstiairs mounted. Why, because the media and the legal process will always give these timewasters the oxygen of publicity and their 24 months in court. Scrafton and Willingham in particular were shown to be complete idiots, but it still did not stop TRASH mounting a delaying campaign that lost in the courts, but won their ultimate aim. You can look back at the Higgs regime and, possibly with justification, label it a shambles, but just look at the environment that they had to operate in. Living away from Bristol, I have seen over the years how far behind the city is other parts of the country in promoting development. Perhaps it is part of the city's slightly quirky charm, but noone can get anything meaningful done. They can stick their quirky charm up their arses. This city is a laughing stock at every turn.
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Post by curlywurly on Mar 4, 2016 21:40:08 GMT
You miss my point. Anything (within reason) that Rovers did would not have effectively counteracted the corrosive and negative campaign that TRASH/Carstiairs mounted. Why, because the media and the legal process will always give these timewasters the oxygen of publicity and their 24 months in court. Scrafton and Willingham in particular were shown to be complete idiots, but it still did not stop TRASH mounting a delaying campaign that lost in the courts, but won their ultimate aim. You can look back at the Higgs regime and, possibly with justification, label it a shambles, but just look at the environment that they had to operate in. Living away from Bristol, I have seen over the years how far behind the city is other parts of the country in promoting development. Perhaps it is part of the city's slightly quirky charm, but noone can get anything meaningful done. They can stick their quirky charm up their arses. This city is a laughing stock at every turn. I was trying to be polite, but you've hit the nail on the head!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2016 7:27:58 GMT
I think the point has been missed.
These campaigners have an ideology which would only ever approve of the use of the land of it fitted pretty much exactly what they personally want. Which I would imagine would be a virtually non-profit making piece of land with houses built to demanding specifications - specs which would keep the price high and narrow the scope of those wishing to build dramatically.
Also, the Sainsburys which would have provided new jobs for predominantly unskilled and semi-skilled folks - absolutely no benefits whatsoever to the mainly university educated and skilled folks who have the time to form organisations like. TRASH.
If a large university was proposed then you bet there would have been support off the bat. On the surface the big words like "sustainable" would have come out but underneath it's just a better deal for the class of busybody folks on the green side of things - never met a greenie who worked in a supermarket but I've met literally hundreds involved in the education system.
You will never, ever get any support or progress development wise as these folks are legion and tend to have lots of free time to muddle around wringing their hands about stuff. This is in contrast to the majority who are busy at work in supermarkets, servicing cars and mechanical work or other jobs in sectors of which they disapprove. What ends up happening is that those who have virtually no qualifications at all to have any input on how society is run (as most don't have proper jobs with a deadline and a bottom line) end up with all the opportunity to meddle in others business.
It's almost moved beyond this in some areas just to be entirely antogonistic to businesses who try to make money - making money from development et al is a sin to these people. A little like political parties end up just opposing each other on principle, the green lobby I think really enjoy the fight and campaigning - they feel they are doing the greater good or perhaps a little like civil rights movements from the 60s - "the little guy taking on big business" vibe. Either way, it's not really about us, what we did or didn't do, it's about them, the fact they have a great deal of time on their hands and their views and the imposition of these on others.
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Post by inee on Mar 5, 2016 11:24:31 GMT
With "locals" like Radice, Carstairs, Scrafton, Willingham, etc. there was no way that any reasonable development proposal would "get them on board". Their spurious and damaging soap box stands were/are nothing but myopic self interest. For the elected amongst them (Radice in particular) the use of every twist and turn of the legal process to thwart the democratic process exposes the crass opportunism that underlies her pseudo politics. I have never hoped more that these people now reap what they sow. As it seems Rovers are no longer dependent on the Sainsbury's deal going ahead, that day may come soon. How many locals other than these people did Rovers approach and form a committee with ? How out of our way did the club really go to listen to what people had to say and what their concerns were ? Once you draw battle Iines people get angry both sides and then it becomes a blinkered my way or no way. I guess it didn't help with rovers changing their minds so often over plans for the men...new north stand, new stadium and student accommodation ,supermarket....and now potentially something different again. We may now have an owner and board set up that can actually do things correctly and not p*** everybody off ! Personally I would take a look at what Ms Radice is interested in trying to improve/provide in the area unrelated to the mem and see if we can get involved........Form a committee with what planet are you from , why and how would committees help anything this is just some daft idea that thing like this help , we had open days (or whatever you want to call it during the process to speak to those affected , but lets not forget a lot of opposition came from greedy traders who don't give a monkeys about anyone other than how much money they can get by selling tat thats well over priced. Also remember some of us refuse to use shops that were part of trash and to be fair if any go bust tough titties. Your last sentence is so blinkered and one way im wondering if you have a loft full of photos of her , sorry but what really she has offered nothing, She isn't local so has no understanding of local issues or people, she is so up her own dirtbox that she believes a tatty run down street is a town centre, it's a road full of shops of which many are dire and would probably make the area much better if they weren't there, all these so called cafe's with outside seating doesn't belong in bristol ,if you want that tosh pop over to france, now lets have a look at what she has actually done ,oh yup sweet fa for anyone except herself, She started trash and when they lost slowly distanced herself from it , so she could gain promotion in the witches den of a party , she then became deputy mayor, she also leaked emails from others at the council regarding the mem. She is just a social climber who is only looking out to say oh look at me i'm finally important in my circles , she so say believes in her parties policies but owns her own house, travels by car etc. Are you aware of how quickly this country would fold and people die if they evercame to power, just read their manifesto, Still carry on and believe people like her are really out for you
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Post by inee on Mar 5, 2016 11:25:51 GMT
I think she just needs a good shag. Volunteers? Anyone? Come ON SOMEBODY!! How about you Nobby? Sorry but if she was the last person on earth, i'd rather drill a hole in a tree as its far more attractive and intelligent
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Post by Antonio Fargas on Mar 5, 2016 11:41:31 GMT
The thing is, a lot of these people think football fans are scum, which I'm sure is partly why they oppose everything the club tries to do. Posting misogynist stuff like this, won't disabuse them of the notion.
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Post by inee on Mar 5, 2016 12:04:40 GMT
The thing is, a lot of these people think football fans are scum, which I'm sure is partly why they oppose everything the club tries to do. Posting misogynist stuff like this, won't disabuse them of the notion. misogynist, your on the wrong track there fella ,but in a sense you are right about 1 woman ,i hate her and wouldn't trust her to post a letter. Things like using misogynist is going too far, sorry i cant live in a cotton covered world where i love and respect everyone, fact is i and many others don't , so reading between the lines you are a misogynist if you cant stand radish, but a hero if you don't like others like maggie. Like many i know who and what i am ,and refuse to change just to be acceptable to others, prefer to be honest and speak my mind , someone asked if we would poke her ,i gave an honest reply. You also have to remember this witch is also on a panel which is for women only, so we could say she's a man hating sexist pig, but hey we won't , she also belongs to a party that advocates peoples right to not be harassed on religious or sexuality grounds but then destroys someone's career when the 2 cross based on beliefs, work that out
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T.R.A.S.H
Mar 5, 2016 12:41:53 GMT
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Post by youmadethatup on Mar 5, 2016 12:41:53 GMT
So if Rovers had been more proactive and created a public voice for those in favour of the various stadium projects ,ensuring they got very good media coverage it may have made the opponent's look like the minority you suggest they were. My own opinion is that since putting a roof on the clubhouse terrace and getting in the 'temporary stand' (haha...how long does the word temporary cover !) At the south end of the ground ,everything else stadium related has been not far off of a shambles. But that is the past, a clean sheet now with the new boys and I'm optimistic they will achieve things to take the club into a more respectable position on and off the pitch. You miss my point. Anything (within reason) that Rovers did would not have effectively counteracted the corrosive and negative campaign that TRASH/Carstiairs mounted. Why, because the media and the legal process will always give these timewasters the oxygen of publicity and their 24 months in court. Scrafton and Willingham in particular were shown to be complete idiots, but it still did not stop TRASH mounting a delaying campaign that lost in the courts, but won their ultimate aim. You can look back at the Higgs regime and, possibly with justification, label it a shambles, but just look at the environment that they had to operate in. Living away from Bristol, I have seen over the years how far behind the city is other parts of the country in promoting development. Perhaps it is part of the city's slightly quirky charm, but noone can get anything meaningful done. So the age old ' behind the times ' coined after the railways rise was correct in more ways than one about Bristol . The ability of anybody to raise objections is part of freespeech and democracy ,something people here have fought to defend . So i do not begrudge campaign groups raising there concerns ,a minority or against the grain group will always have to shout loud ,else they just get pushed aside by the bullies.The court process is there to give a 'fair' verdict , in this case in favour of BRFC .Yes the delay did allow other issues to arise ,but the problems Sainsburys had would have arose anyway (not a BRFC problem I know) but would still have impacted the local community and other sainsburys employees. If this was purely a business I would say fine. Football clubs are not purely a business...else forums,supporters clubs ,charity drives ,and life long allegences would not exist . Football prides itself as being at the heart of the community ,and that is something to be proud of ,but it does mean taking the rough with the smooth. The uwe is a transient community on the whole which might be beneficial in the future ? I noticed the FGR plans for a new stadium include creating upto 4000 jobs I believe in their 'ecopark' ,I'm sure they will get objections for their scheme. Though with ecotricity being Stroud's biggest single employer with plans to increase work there and create more jobs at the business park they may be better received (?)
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Post by Gastroenteritis on Mar 5, 2016 13:09:26 GMT
I second building a gigantic migrant camp. Its liberal left-wing dickheads who want them here, and by voting record around the Mem has a great deal of them. Guess where all of our migrants are going? Officially, Middlesborough and north east England. Far, far away from their cosy, cosseted world where they will scream bigoted bile at working class Brits who are put out by yet more competition for jobs and housing. I hope this whole episode with TRASH proves that while some political movements might come with cuddly people, promising free money and lots of big words like "sustainable" and "social responsibility" , in practice they despise the average joe every bit as much as any Tory and particularly don't have any time for white van men, or regular folks like us who like beer and football. Of course, otoh, with people like this idiot following Rovers you can see why people don't like football fans. why is this guy an idiot?
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Post by Antonio Fargas on Mar 5, 2016 13:17:21 GMT
Of course, otoh, with people like this idiot following Rovers you can see why people don't like football fans. why is this guy an idiot? I don't know. Maybe he was dropped on his head as a baby, or something.
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T.R.A.S.H
Mar 5, 2016 15:39:05 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2016 15:39:05 GMT
The thing is, a lot of these people think football fans are scum, which I'm sure is partly why they oppose everything the club tries to do. Posting misogynist stuff like this, won't disabuse them of the notion. Do we care what minority fringe parties think of us? I think perhaps that they should perhaps look at their own image as busybody nimby's with crackpot views and dangerous solutions, with a massive swedge of self interest loaded in. Only in the liberal green circles is being a little mysogynist a heinous crime - the rest of us are grown ups and don't have tantrums when others think differently. Note - we have not tried to derail any of their plans or ambitions - they are the aggressor, they are the folks who continually cause issues for others. If they have a bad opinion of football fans - don't go to a football match. If being a bit mysogynist is cause to do your best to ruin another groups wishes, or if bright slightly sexist is a pretext for being de facto incorrect, then it's that way of thinking which requires analysis - psychological analysis in my opinion. I don't know why that would justify being unpleasant to someone - messing up others plans for petty class hate (which is what trash boils down to) is far worse than the odd life on Mars comment. So there !
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T.R.A.S.H
Mar 5, 2016 15:47:43 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2016 15:47:43 GMT
why is this guy an idiot? I don't know. Maybe he was dropped on his head as a baby, or something. I wasn't but we have a little previous history of clashing on politics so to be fair to Fargas, there's a long standing acrimonious narrative between us hence this comment - it wasn't a random ad hom, although I did feel it a little unfair but shaming and name calling are the order of left wing arguments these days so I am used to it!
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Mar 5, 2016 15:53:25 GMT
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Post by aghast on Mar 5, 2016 15:53:25 GMT
So if criticising a political opponent by discussing how unattractive she is, and whether and how I would or wouldn't have sex with her, is being a just a little harmlessly misogynistic, then since I find that type of language and debate unacceptable, I am logically, according to some, a do-gooder lily-livered interfering green, since opinions like mine are to be found only in their circles.
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Mar 5, 2016 16:00:17 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2016 16:00:17 GMT
So if criticising a political opponent by discussing how unattractive she is, and whether and how I would or wouldn't have sex with her, is being a just a little harmlessly misogynistic, then since I find that type of language and debate unacceptable, I am logically, according to some, a do-gooder lily-livered interfering green, since opinions like mine are to be found only in their circles. Don't forget that the liberal lot use terms like "the boardrooms of Britain are hideously white and male" "All men are potential rapists" is one they have been touting for years. They are the most sexist and racist people out there, but they think as long as the targets aren't the same as the traditional targets of racism or sexism then you even up the ballance and two wrongs make a right.
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T.R.A.S.H
Mar 5, 2016 16:08:40 GMT
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Post by aghast on Mar 5, 2016 16:08:40 GMT
So if criticising a political opponent by discussing how unattractive she is, and whether and how I would or wouldn't have sex with her, is being a just a little harmlessly misogynistic, then since I find that type of language and debate unacceptable, I am logically, according to some, a do-gooder lily-livered interfering green, since opinions like mine are to be found only in their circles. Don't forget that the liberal lot use terms like "the boardrooms of Britain are hideously white and male" "All men are potential rapists" is one they have been touting for years. They are the most sexist and racist people out there, but they think as long as the targets aren't the same as the traditional targets of racism or sexism then you even up the ballance and two wrongs make a right. Actually I was disagreeing with opinions like yours, but we're all entitled to them.
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T.R.A.S.H
Mar 5, 2016 16:44:42 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2016 16:44:42 GMT
Don't forget that the liberal lot use terms like "the boardrooms of Britain are hideously white and male" "All men are potential rapists" is one they have been touting for years. They are the most sexist and racist people out there, but they think as long as the targets aren't the same as the traditional targets of racism or sexism then you even up the ballance and two wrongs make a right. Actually I was disagreeing with opinions like yours, but we're all entitled to them. We are. It's a good thing, but be aware that you can be prosecuted for sexist or racism language, so it isn't actually true. Legally, you are entitled to your opinion but the poster above who made an offhand jokey sexist remark would be doing jail time of many had their way!
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