Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2016 6:34:37 GMT
How do you know for certain the wonga loan hasn't been paid off and is still on the books? As far as the consultants are concerned as they are acting for Rovers I can't see it's an issue if they are paid by the club, after all NH wasted millions in legal costs pursuing Sainsbury's! I am not sure Dwayne Sports would want a short term gigh interest loan sitting on their books Why not? It might allow another part of the business to borrow. A bit of quantitative easing if you like.... I took my brothers overdraft off of him once to free him up. Obviously these last few pages are speculative and guesswork so who really gives a darn!
|
|
|
Post by peterparker on Aug 6, 2016 6:41:32 GMT
I am not sure Dwayne Sports would want a short term gigh interest loan sitting on their books Why not? It might allow another part of the business to borrow. A bit of quantitative easing if you like.... I took my brothers overdraft off of him once to free him up. Obviously these last few pages are speculative and guesswork so who really gives a darn! I am not saying they wouldnt want any debt, but the MSP loan. It was already a 12 month loan that was extended with expensive interest payments that were going to cripple the club before the takeover. Maybe it is still there racking up interest but how long could it realisticly stay there?
|
|
|
Post by youmadethatup on Aug 6, 2016 7:06:30 GMT
You would hope the general aim for the new owners would be to make the "club" profitable over time . That has to start with making debts having less impact on day to day affairs ( could that be longer term repayments at a lower interest rate ) , Regardless of the old loans the club now has a higher wage bill that money has to be covered. This obviously means a higher average crowd and increased sponsorship/advertising income and more corporate packages sold alongside more non match day income. Fans have on the whole wanted the club to live within its means and not gather worrying debts . I think that if an owner gifts an amount of money to the club it needs to be so that gift takes the club to a better money earning position and so increases the long term financial health.
|
|
|
Post by countygroundhotel on Aug 6, 2016 8:24:06 GMT
I'm not sure they realized what a shambles almost every aspect of the club was and how much work it was going to take to even achieve the most basic changes let alone build a new stadium. Probably true but they're businessmen and they love football so I'm pretty sure they can make it work. Not long now until the big kick off bring it on !! Thtat'll be based on every businessman who has entered the football world being a success? God help us if that is what the future is based on.
|
|
|
Post by pilninggas on Aug 6, 2016 8:28:07 GMT
Thanks for confirming that Dwayne Sports are a Private Company, I do not have the time to confirm that but is was obviously the case. I lived in Jersey for 5 years and am well aware of why companies are set up in the Channel Islands. There is nothing wrong in it, but at the moment I fail to understand the reason for doing so.
I have spoken to a lot of Gasheads and the majority of them believe that the MSP loan has been paid off and BRFC are no longer expected to clear it. The £3+m has not disappeared it is just residing in a different companies accounts. I will be asking a question at BRFC's next AGM as to whether we are paying any fees/interest etc on that money?
I also expect that the "consultants" are on the books of Dwayne Sports and I'd love to know if this also involves any fees etc to BRFC.
How do you know for certain the wonga loan hasn't been paid off and is still on the books? As far as the consultants are concerned as they are acting for Rovers I can't see it's an issue if they are paid by the club, after all NH wasted millions in legal costs pursuing Sainsbury's! Didn't someone post up all the ltd details from companies house, about a month after the takeover showing all the debts settled? Almost all of the due diligence undertaken by the Al-Qadis must have been centred on clearing all the debt.
|
|
|
Post by BishopstonBRFC on Aug 6, 2016 8:34:17 GMT
They were fitting a load of rainwater pipes to the South Stand roof yesterday. Perhaps that means the roof will now be watertight.
|
|
|
Post by Hugo the Elder on Aug 6, 2016 9:03:19 GMT
Why not? It might allow another part of the business to borrow. A bit of quantitative easing if you like.... I took my brothers overdraft off of him once to free him up. Obviously these last few pages are speculative and guesswork so who really gives a darn! I am not saying they wouldnt want any debt, but the MSP loan. It was already a 12 month loan that was extended with expensive interest payments that were going to cripple the club before the takeover. Maybe it is still there racking up interest but how long could it realisticly stay there? If you take out a loan that has much better interest rates to pay off a crippling loan then it's not an issue. Even better if the "loan" is from cash you actually have yourself.
|
|
|
Post by Severncider on Aug 6, 2016 9:12:04 GMT
How do you know for certain the wonga loan hasn't been paid off and is still on the books? As far as the consultants are concerned as they are acting for Rovers I can't see it's an issue if they are paid by the club, after all NH wasted millions in legal costs pursuing Sainsbury's! Didn't someone post up all the ltd details from companies house, about a month after the takeover showing all the debts settled? Almost all of the due diligence undertaken by the Al-Qadis must have been centred on clearing all the debt. Yes, I posted details from Companies House confirming all the debts on the Memorial Stadium have been cleared, for which I am eternally grateful.
However, as a Shareholder in BRFC I would like confirmation of where that debt now resides and if BRFC have to repay that by reducing the price received when The Mem is sold. Also, is that debt increasing with interest?
I still have 99.9% faith in Wael and am certain that he has the best interest of BRFC at heart.
I'd just like to clear up one or two points regarding the finances of BRFC and not be surprised in the future that things are not quite as they appeared.
|
|
|
Post by countygroundhotel on Aug 6, 2016 9:21:16 GMT
Thanks for confirming that Dwayne Sports are a Private Company, I do not have the time to confirm that but is was obviously the case. I lived in Jersey for 5 years and am well aware of why companies are set up in the Channel Islands. There is nothing wrong in it, but at the moment I fail to understand the reason for doing so.
I have spoken to a lot of Gasheads and the majority of them believe that the MSP loan has been paid off and BRFC are no longer expected to clear it. The £3+m has not disappeared it is just residing in a different companies accounts. I will be asking a question at BRFC's next AGM as to whether we are paying any fees/interest etc on that money?
I also expect that the "consultants" are on the books of Dwayne Sports and I'd love to know if this also involves any fees etc to BRFC.
I think it is only you, me & Swissgas can see what has happened. I doubt we are paying interest to Dwayne Sports on a loan, after all there is only so much cash in the business, but I'll bet we are accruing interest on a loan to Dwayne Sports and possibly the Directors salaries. As to debt free I think Companies House will only show secured debts not unsecured debts, as Wael controls both sides of the transaction it won't need to be secured until he thinks BRFC are going to go tits up.
|
|
|
Post by chippenhamgas on Aug 6, 2016 9:29:36 GMT
Thanks for confirming that Dwayne Sports are a Private Company, I do not have the time to confirm that but is was obviously the case. I lived in Jersey for 5 years and am well aware of why companies are set up in the Channel Islands. There is nothing wrong in it, but at the moment I fail to understand the reason for doing so.
I have spoken to a lot of Gasheads and the majority of them believe that the MSP loan has been paid off and BRFC are no longer expected to clear it. The £3+m has not disappeared it is just residing in a different companies accounts. I will be asking a question at BRFC's next AGM as to whether we are paying any fees/interest etc on that money?
I also expect that the "consultants" are on the books of Dwayne Sports and I'd love to know if this also involves any fees etc to BRFC.
I think it is only you, me & Swissgas can see what has happened. I doubt we are paying interest to Dwayne Sports on a loan, after all there is only so much cash in the business, but I'll bet we are accruing interest on a loan to Dwayne Sports and possibly the Directors salaries. As to debt free I think Companies House will only show secured debts not unsecured debts, as Wael controls both sides of the transaction it won't need to be secured until he thinks BRFC are going to go tits up. What it looks like then is that we've swapped one group of people who we owed money to for another group of people! Until i see evidence of actual investment being made by the new board i will be unconvinced. Do Dwayne sports now own the mem site? Are they accruing further debt by paying non football related salaries thus eroding the equity in the mem? Did the money higgs and co received also get parked here as debt? Who knows, we are taking everything on faith at the moment.
|
|
|
Post by Quartermaster on Aug 6, 2016 9:55:00 GMT
Thanks for confirming that Dwayne Sports are a Private Company, I do not have the time to confirm that but is was obviously the case. I lived in Jersey for 5 years and am well aware of why companies are set up in the Channel Islands. There is nothing wrong in it, but at the moment I fail to understand the reason for doing so.
I have spoken to a lot of Gasheads and the majority of them believe that the MSP loan has been paid off and BRFC are no longer expected to clear it. The £3+m has not disappeared it is just residing in a different companies accounts. I will be asking a question at BRFC's next AGM as to whether we are paying any fees/interest etc on that money?
I also expect that the "consultants" are on the books of Dwayne Sports and I'd love to know if this also involves any fees etc to BRFC.
I think it is only you, me & Swissgas can see what has happened. I doubt we are paying interest to Dwayne Sports on a loan, after all there is only so much cash in the business, but I'll bet we are accruing interest on a loan to Dwayne Sports and possibly the Directors salaries. As to debt free I think Companies House will only show secured debts not unsecured debts, as Wael controls both sides of the transaction it won't need to be secured until he thinks BRFC are going to go tits up. This reads a little condescendingly. In the above I see sentences beginning "I believe", "I expect", "I bet", "I think". Surely the only thing we can all be certain of is that none of us know for certain how the debt has been dealt with.
|
|
|
Post by Topper Gas on Aug 6, 2016 10:13:18 GMT
I think it is only you, me & Swissgas can see what has happened. I doubt we are paying interest to Dwayne Sports on a loan, after all there is only so much cash in the business, but I'll bet we are accruing interest on a loan to Dwayne Sports and possibly the Directors salaries. As to debt free I think Companies House will only show secured debts not unsecured debts, as Wael controls both sides of the transaction it won't need to be secured until he thinks BRFC are going to go tits up. What it looks like then is that we've swapped one group of people who we owed money to for another group of people! Until i see evidence of actual investment being made by the new board i will be unconvinced. Do Dwayne sports now own the mem site? Are they accruing further debt by paying non football related salaries thus eroding the equity in the mem? Did the money higgs and co received also get parked here as debt? Who knows, we are taking everything o n faith at the moment. Which is no different than it's ever been at Rovers? NH ran up £10m+ of debts and finished up taking out a wonga loan to keep the club afloat I can't recall he gave a blow by blow account over what he was doing. Certain posters will try and convince fans Wael's simply transferred all the debts/loans to Dwane Sports and he's earning a nice rate of interest but none of us really know what's going on, as I said earlier would the Al-Q's really get involved in Rovers just make a million or two, or do they really want to make us a force in the footballing world? If they were just in it for a quick return wouldn't they have taken the £250K offered for DC's services and also let MT leave rather than make him one of our highest paid players? I also can't see the Al-Q's will want a poorly run debt ridden business on their CV's/books that doesn't seem their style, although you sense a few posters find that hard to believe!
|
|
|
Post by peterparker on Aug 6, 2016 10:16:11 GMT
I think it is only you, me & Swissgas can see what has happened. I doubt we are paying interest to Dwayne Sports on a loan, after all there is only so much cash in the business, but I'll bet we are accruing interest on a loan to Dwayne Sports and possibly the Directors salaries. As to debt free I think Companies House will only show secured debts not unsecured debts, as Wael controls both sides of the transaction it won't need to be secured until he thinks BRFC are going to go tits up. What it looks like then is that we've swapped one group of people who we owed money to for another group of people! Until i see evidence of actual investment being made by the new board i will be unconvinced. Do Dwayne sports now own the mem site? Are they accruing further debt by paying non football related salaries thus eroding the equity in the mem? Did the money higgs and co received also get parked here as debt? Who knows, we are taking everything on faith at the moment. Dwayne Sports bought 92% of 1883 ltd, so yes they own The Mem
|
|
|
Post by Topper Gas on Aug 6, 2016 10:25:06 GMT
I see our webiste has been updated to show Dwane Sport is owned equally by 4 members of the Al-Q family, so there's seemingly no mystery ownership of the club.
|
|
|
Post by madridgas on Aug 6, 2016 10:39:52 GMT
I believe we were not only losing c£1m a year, but running out of cash quickly and were not far away from administration. I could see a scenario whereby Wael and family gave the existing shareholders an exit route, by selling to them, valuing the men (which was their main asset) as building land, with certain individuals getting life presidencies. So straight away that would have been a few million pounds of cash injected. We have then seen sensible small investments such as scoreboard, ladies toilets etc. followed by larger, TL contract, LB contract, DC contract, MT contract (I am not saying they are the highest earners, but are all contracts which would probably see a return if sold to a different club). It could well be that the "pay day loan" has been replaced by another loan from Wael and his family. Great news as this gives them the ability to offset losses from BRFC against profits from other group companies. I have never met Wael, but he comes across as a smart businessman, well connected who genuinely cares for the club. We have also seen other family members join us at games. There are many things to appreciate in an owner, but IMHO we should perhaps consider the following: 1) Need to make money from the investment in the next 5 years. I suspect the new owners at Wolves, Aston Villa and soon to be WBA are all looking for this. So yes they may invest money, but will expect results.... Managers changes, players changes etc. As a fan, I see this as a big negative. Wael seems more than content with the progress we are making. I will enjoy the stability and the ride. 2 ) Business acumen - The family clearly have this and the external appointments come across as being from the Premier division. Like it or not, it is not good business acumen to throw millions at an investment, without at least breaking even. In this regard Chelsea is a hobby for Abramovich rather than an investment. 3 ) Accessability / Transparency / Visability - from Day 1 Wael has ticked these boxes. Of course there are certain topics he will keep to himself, but perhaps as with DC we should "trust". 4) Ability to invest. In my book, proven in the "few millions" box, but to be seen, in the many millions box.
I suspect that if we created league table based on these qualities, we would be in the Championship at least. UTG
|
|
|
Post by Antonio Fargas on Aug 6, 2016 10:47:17 GMT
I believe we were not only losing c£1m a year, but running out of cash quickly and were not far away from administration. I could see a scenario whereby Wael and family gave the existing shareholders an exit route, by selling to them, valuing the men (which was their main asset) as building land, with certain individuals getting life presidencies. So straight away that would have been a few million pounds of cash injected. We have then seen sensible small investments such as scoreboard, ladies toilets etc. followed by larger, TL contract, LB contract, DC contract, MT contract (I am not saying they are the highest earners, but are all contracts which would probably see a return if sold to a different club). It could well be that the "pay day loan" has been replaced by another loan from Wael and his family. Great news as this gives them the ability to offset losses from BRFC against profits from other group companies. I have never met Wael, but he comes across as a smart businessman, well connected who genuinely cares for the club. We have also seen other family members join us at games. There are many things to appreciate in an owner, but IMHO we should perhaps consider the following: 1) Need to make money from the investment in the next 5 years. I suspect the new owners at Wolves, Aston Villa and soon to be WBA are all looking for this. So yes they may invest money, but will expect results.... Managers changes, players changes etc. As a fan, I see this as a big negative. Wael seems more than content with the progress we are making. I will enjoy the stability and the ride. 2 ) Business acumen - The family clearly have this and the external appointments come across as being from the Premier division. Like it or not, it is not good business acumen to throw millions at an investment, without at least breaking even. In this regard Chelsea is a hobby for Abramovich rather than an investment. 3 ) Accessability / Transparency / Visability - from Day 1 Wael has ticked these boxes. Of course there are certain topics he will keep to himself, but perhaps as with DC we should "trust". 4) Ability to invest. In my book, proven in the "few millions" box, but to be seen, in the many millions box. I suspect that if we created league table based on these qualities, we would be in the Championship at least. UTG Yep, well said. There's plenty of things for us to see with our own eyes and to make up our own minds about the new regime, without resorting to the worst possible interpretation, and then congratulating ourselves on our wonderful perspicacity. Time will tell, of course, but I'm in the trust them for at least a bit camp.
|
|
|
Post by CheshireGas on Aug 6, 2016 11:05:27 GMT
I note that the charge to Sainsbury is still outstanding.
|
|
|
Post by Antonio Fargas on Aug 6, 2016 11:12:47 GMT
I note that the charge to Sainsbury is still outstanding. What charge is that?
|
|
|
Post by CheshireGas on Aug 6, 2016 11:15:26 GMT
I believe we were not only losing c£1m a year, but running out of cash quickly and were not far away from administration. I could see a scenario whereby Wael and family gave the existing shareholders an exit route, by selling to them, valuing the men (which was their main asset) as building land, with certain individuals getting life presidencies. So straight away that would have been a few million pounds of cash injected. We have then seen sensible small investments such as scoreboard, ladies toilets etc. followed by larger, TL contract, LB contract, DC contract, MT contract (I am not saying they are the highest earners, but are all contracts which would probably see a return if sold to a different club). It could well be that the "pay day loan" has been replaced by another loan from Wael and his family. Great news as this gives them the ability to offset losses from BRFC against profits from other group companies. I have never met Wael, but he comes across as a smart businessman, well connected who genuinely cares for the club. We have also seen other family members join us at games. There are many things to appreciate in an owner, but IMHO we should perhaps consider the following: 1) Need to make money from the investment in the next 5 years. I suspect the new owners at Wolves, Aston Villa and soon to be WBA are all looking for this. So yes they may invest money, but will expect results.... Managers changes, players changes etc. As a fan, I see this as a big negative. Wael seems more than content with the progress we are making. I will enjoy the stability and the ride. 2 ) Business acumen - The family clearly have this and the external appointments come across as being from the Premier division. Like it or not, it is not good business acumen to throw millions at an investment, without at least breaking even. In this regard Chelsea is a hobby for Abramovich rather than an investment. 3 ) Accessability / Transparency / Visability - from Day 1 Wael has ticked these boxes. Of course there are certain topics he will keep to himself, but perhaps as with DC we should "trust". 4) Ability to invest. In my book, proven in the "few millions" box, but to be seen, in the many millions box. I suspect that if we created league table based on these qualities, we would be in the Championship at least. UTG Yep, well said. There's plenty of things for us to see with our own eyes and to make up our own minds about the new regime, without resorting to the worst possible interpretation, and then congratulating ourselves on our wonderful perspicacity. Time will tell, of course, but I'm in the trust them for at least a bit camp. The point is that GoD, Nicky and Toni the Till hid much from the fans for years and at times indulged in falsehoods ~ it was one of their biggest criticisms. So far much of what has happened has been out in the open even admitting that things were coming out from the UWE transaction that they hadn't expected (how much due diligence!) When the 2016 accounts are published they will show any interest charges or inter company indebtedness. Until then everything is pure speculation and conjecture. Based on that speculation it gives people an opportunity to have a pop at the new owners whether the speculation is true or not. I remember Nick's supporters and those ITK criticising Nick's critics for that even after he had blatantly told porkies about Cheltenham....
|
|
|
Post by countygroundhotel on Aug 6, 2016 11:26:17 GMT
I note that the charge to Sainsbury is still outstanding. Don't say that Terry the simpletons want to believe we're debt free
|
|