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Post by gasandelectricity on Feb 4, 2017 11:09:38 GMT
We'd never get planning permission for anything other than a training ground
The AlQadis are experts in big business so I'm sure they've got only the best accountants looking at the affairs and ensuring assets are protected.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2017 11:12:22 GMT
Trying to imagine how big 29 acres is and I don't know the site at all. Could the site also be used as a plan B for a certain stadium or is that just not possible? go onto google maps and find the m4/m5 junction . Its the wedge of land west of the m5 and north of the m4.
Not suitable for a stadium.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2017 11:12:57 GMT
Trying to imagine how big 29 acres is and I don't know the site at all. Could the site also be used as a plan B for a certain stadium or is that just not possible? Suggested this on this forum a few weeks ago. Firmly put in my place by a couple of posters on here and assured by them the planning application did not allow it.
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Post by Antonio Fargas on Feb 4, 2017 11:13:28 GMT
29 acres seems very big for a training facility alone... maybe a stadium as well? ? Plan B?? Absolutely no chance. They even bothered to insert a bit in the planning permission saying no paid attendance is allowed.
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Post by Henbury Gas on Feb 4, 2017 11:14:23 GMT
So the tweet saying the "club" have purchased the training ground is technically incorrect as it should say the club's owners? Although unless the Al-Qadi's gave the club an interest free loan how would they ever afford themselves anyway? Any idea how this works for the FFP rules, can the club now include the income within their turnover as I assume Fleetwood do? Its also "technically" incorrect to say MY Team are Bristol Rovers.... its not YOUR TEAM
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Post by Gastroenteritis on Feb 4, 2017 11:15:56 GMT
maybe a stadium as well? ? Plan B?? Absolutely no chance. They even bothered to insert a bit in the planning permission saying no paid attendance is allowed. furry muff, that rules that out then
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Post by Severncider on Feb 4, 2017 11:20:58 GMT
Serious question, what happens though if Dwayne Sports gets in to financial trouble? They have an asset that can be sold separately to the football club. As the ownership stands undoubtedly in my opinion we will be paying Dwayne Sports to use the training ground, this is the way that modern owners get a return on their investment. As it happens I don't have a particular problem with that as it's exactly what I expected just pointing out that fact to everyone who has assumed Bristol Rovers now own a training ground. I'll also be very, very surprised when the accounts are published if Bristol Rovers don't owe Dwayne Sports an amount roughly equal to the Wonga loan.My understanding is that BRFC no longer owe anyone for the Wonga loan, it has been taken on by Dwane Sports who will be repaid when The Mem is sold, together with accumulating debts for Consultant fees and the purchase of the training ground and the cost of developing it.
At the forthcoming BRFC AGM, March?, we can ask questions about Dwane Sports but as we are not shareholders in that Company, BRFC do not have to disclose any info about Dwane Sports financial affairs.
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Post by gaelgas on Feb 4, 2017 11:23:39 GMT
Trying to imagine how big 29 acres is and I don't know the site at all. Could the site also be used as a plan B for a certain stadium or is that just not possible? The average size of a football pitch is around 1.75 acres which is about 7100 square metres so the site is approximately the size of 16.5 football pitches or around 118,000 square metres if that helps.
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Post by Henbury Gas on Feb 4, 2017 11:25:18 GMT
Trying to imagine how big 29 acres is and I don't know the site at all. Could the site also be used as a plan B for a certain stadium or is that just not possible? The average size of a football pitch is around 1.75 acres which is about 7100 square metres so the site is approximately the size of 16.5 football pitches or around 118,000 square metres if that helps. So plenty of room for a Coffee shop and car/camel park then
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Post by countygroundhotel on Feb 4, 2017 11:37:04 GMT
They have an asset that can be sold separately to the football club. As the ownership stands undoubtedly in my opinion we will be paying Dwayne Sports to use the training ground, this is the way that modern owners get a return on their investment. As it happens I don't have a particular problem with that as it's exactly what I expected just pointing out that fact to everyone who has assumed Bristol Rovers now own a training ground. I'll also be very, very surprised when the accounts are published if Bristol Rovers don't owe Dwayne Sports an amount roughly equal to the Wonga loan.My understanding is that BRFC no longer owe anyone for the Wonga loan, it has been taken on by Dwane Sports who will be repaid when The Mem is sold, together with accumulating debts for Consultant fees and the purchase of the training ground and the cost of developing it.
At the forthcoming BRFC AGM, March?, we can ask questions about Dwane Sports but as we are not shareholders in that Company, BRFC do not have to disclose any info about Dwane Sports financial affairs.
Well it'll be an amazing bit of accounting if the Wonga liability disappears from our books without being replaced by another loan or being repaid in cash by Bristol Rovers. Do you think we've ever had enough cash, without Dwayne Sports loaning it to us, to repay the Wonga loan? The only other way to account for it is to issue new shares that Dwayne Sports have purchased which in turn would mean that the 8% of the football club AND stadium that the supporters club (and small shareholder) did own would have been further diluted. As you hint it'll be interesting to see the next set of accounts. As an aside our you one if the small shareholders and thus entitled to see the accounts? Unfortunately I'm not one of them
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Post by Topper Gas on Feb 4, 2017 11:51:18 GMT
So the tweet saying the "club" have purchased the training ground is technically incorrect as it should say the club's owners? Although unless the Al-Qadi's gave the club an interest free loan how would they ever afford themselves anyway? Any idea how this works for the FFP rules, can the club now include the income within their turnover as I assume Fleetwood do? Its also "technically" incorrect to say MY Team are Bristol Rovers.... its not YOUR TEAM Which isn't a term I ever use anyway, even if I did I wouldn't be using it to make an official announcement on the company website! As far as the acreage a football pitch is around 2 acres so say 3 for some space between each pitch which give room for a maximum of 10 pitches, allow for the car park and the club house, wasted land on the perimeter and we're probably looking at room for 6 pitches plus, or including the 3/4G pitch, so it probably suites our needs.
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Post by Antonio Fargas on Feb 4, 2017 11:54:45 GMT
If you look on Googlemaps, you can see that there are already a few pitches marked out on the site.
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Post by Severncider on Feb 4, 2017 11:54:59 GMT
My understanding is that BRFC no longer owe anyone for the Wonga loan, it has been taken on by Dwane Sports who will be repaid when The Mem is sold, together with accumulating debts for Consultant fees and the purchase of the training ground and the cost of developing it.
At the forthcoming BRFC AGM, March?, we can ask questions about Dwane Sports but as we are not shareholders in that Company, BRFC do not have to disclose any info about Dwane Sports financial affairs.
Well it'll be an amazing bit of accounting if the Wonga liability disappears from our books without being replaced by another loan or being repaid in cash by Bristol Rovers. Do you think we've ever had enough cash, without Dwayne Sports loaning it to us, to repay the Wonga loan? The only other way to account for it is to issue new shares that Dwayne Sports have purchased which in turn would mean that the 8% of the football club AND stadium that the supporters club (and small shareholder) did own would have been further diluted. As you hint it'll be interesting to see the next set of accounts. As an aside our you one if the small shareholders and thus entitled to see the accounts? Unfortunately I'm not one of them Yes I am one of the remaining shareholders in BRFC but unfortunately will be unable to attend the next AGM, as I will be on holiday, if the proposed date stays the same.
I think the purchase of BRFC included the clearing of the Wonga debt, so I'm sure by some legitimate accounting procedure, shares paid for would cover this.
I'm sure SH covered this point at a Q & A last year.
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Post by stuart1974 on Feb 4, 2017 20:01:47 GMT
My understanding is that BRFC no longer owe anyone for the Wonga loan, it has been taken on by Dwane Sports who will be repaid when The Mem is sold, together with accumulating debts for Consultant fees and the purchase of the training ground and the cost of developing it.
At the forthcoming BRFC AGM, March?, we can ask questions about Dwane Sports but as we are not shareholders in that Company, BRFC do not have to disclose any info about Dwane Sports financial affairs.
Well it'll be an amazing bit of accounting if the Wonga liability disappears from our books without being replaced by another loan or being repaid in cash by Bristol Rovers. Do you think we've ever had enough cash, without Dwayne Sports loaning it to us, to repay the Wonga loan? The only other way to account for it is to issue new shares that Dwayne Sports have purchased which in turn would mean that the 8% of the football club AND stadium that the supporters club (and small shareholder) did own would have been further diluted. As you hint it'll be interesting to see the next set of accounts. As an aside our you one if the small shareholders and thus entitled to see the accounts? Unfortunately I'm not one of them I'm no expert but wouldn't an injection of capital equivalent to the charge balance the books without showing up on our balance sheet as a liability to a creditor?
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Post by aghast on Feb 4, 2017 20:17:11 GMT
Well it'll be an amazing bit of accounting if the Wonga liability disappears from our books without being replaced by another loan or being repaid in cash by Bristol Rovers. Do you think we've ever had enough cash, without Dwayne Sports loaning it to us, to repay the Wonga loan? The only other way to account for it is to issue new shares that Dwayne Sports have purchased which in turn would mean that the 8% of the football club AND stadium that the supporters club (and small shareholder) did own would have been further diluted. As you hint it'll be interesting to see the next set of accounts. As an aside our you one if the small shareholders and thus entitled to see the accounts? Unfortunately I'm not one of them I'm no expert but wouldn't an injection of capital equivalent to the charge balance the books without showing up on our balance sheet as a liability to a creditor? The least likely question that has ever been asked on a football forum in the history of the internet.
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Feb 4, 2017 20:21:40 GMT
I worked for a guy who rented a factory off himself.
It worked very simply. When his business wasn't doing well he lowered the rent he charged. When his business was doing well he put the rent up! I'm sure it's just a way of minimising exposure to liability.
Simplistic perhaps, but maybe similar to what WAQ is doing. Build the facilities through one company, keeping all debts and or incomes off of the other businesses books. If and when BRFC becomes profitable (and so by definition successful) Dwane Sports will be able to recoup their money.
This means they will have a very good reason to ensure we are successful. Rather than worry about it, I find it reassuring. The only problem comes when different people run the club and own the building. Then we could be in trouble.
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Post by Topper Gas on Feb 4, 2017 20:35:00 GMT
Wasn't that NH's original plan for the UWE, or least the land it was built on? I could never understand how, having spent decades trying to own our own ground, he was prepared to give it away again despite getting £30m+ from Sainsburys for the Mem.
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Post by gasforeverman on Feb 4, 2017 20:35:18 GMT
The Al-qadi's own bristol rovers and im happy they do... Crossing T's and doting i's is what their good at... Their letting the manager manage and us fans dream :-)
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Post by stuart1974 on Feb 4, 2017 20:35:19 GMT
I'm no expert but wouldn't an injection of capital equivalent to the charge balance the books without showing up on our balance sheet as a liability to a creditor? The least likely question that has ever been asked on a football forum in the history of the internet. Thanks, you don't know quite how happy that has made me feel :-)
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Post by Langford Gas on Feb 5, 2017 7:01:17 GMT
I am no expert but maybe the whole Dwane Sports idea is due to the micro management of club finances by the football league. The financial fairplay rules mean that clubs have to continually prove they are running a sustainable business. The cost of this training ground might look like us spending beyond our means on paper so if it belongs to Dwane Sports it might mean we can keep these figures out of these returns. I don't have any insider knowledge just guessing. Agree with this. I can't imagine we'll be paying much in rent as it's the owners way of trying to beat the system. In terms of if they were selling up. Even if it was owned by the football club, they still own the football club so why does it matter? If Bristol Rovers are worth £20m without the training ground and £25m with it, it doesn't matter who actually owns the training ground. Dwane Sports would sell the club for £25m with the training ground or £20m without it then sell the training ground for another £5m. It would all work out the same in the end. P.S these figures are just hypothetical btw. I'm sure my valuation of the club is way out. UTG! This crossed my mind, but .... If this were to be the case how would we benefit from income streams on the new stadium under FFP rules ?
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