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Post by Topper Gas on Feb 12, 2017 18:15:26 GMT
I just think we should have gone all out for promotion and gave ourselves every possible chance of getting in the play-offs before we have to rebuild the squad, I reckon deep down darrell clarke will be a bit put out about events in january but obviously that is just my opinion. I never buy into this not ready for promotion stuff,i think barnsley came up via the play-offs and there doing ok so why not us? Who said DC is not going all out for promotion? But assuming you watched the match yesterday you must have realised there's a gulf between us and Bradford/the top 5. It's easy saying go all out for the Championship but do you really want to watch us lose every game next season if we get promoted, Burton & Wigan are showing it's a big step up.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2017 18:19:10 GMT
I just think we should have gone all out for promotion and gave ourselves every possible chance of getting in the play-offs before we have to rebuild the squad, I reckon deep down darrell clarke will be a bit put out about events in january but obviously that is just my opinion. I never buy into this not ready for promotion stuff,i think barnsley came up via the play-offs and there doing ok so why not us? LOL Is that step 1 or 5?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2017 19:25:39 GMT
The main thing is that DC can see the evolution and feel he is achieving something longterm and short term. If he loses that sense then he may be tempted by other jobs The Nottingham Forest job being available in the summer has to be a concern for fans given DC's Nottinghamshire connections.
If promotion happens this season then so be it but if it doesn't then maybe it gives another season for the squad to evolve a stage further.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2017 20:14:27 GMT
I just think we should have gone all out for promotion and gave ourselves every possible chance of getting in the play-offs before we have to rebuild the squad, I reckon deep down darrell clarke will be a bit put out about events in january but obviously that is just my opinion. I never buy into this not ready for promotion stuff,i think barnsley came up via the play-offs and there doing ok so why not us? Who said DC is not going all out for promotion? But assuming you watched the match yesterday you must have realised there's a gulf between us and Bradford/the top 5. It's easy saying go all out for the Championship but do you really want to watch us lose every game next season if we get promoted, Burton & Wigan are showing it's a big step up. Football isnt just about possession,it was a very close game yesterday,if there was such a gulf we wouldnt have drawn twice with them.
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Post by oldgas on Feb 12, 2017 21:35:01 GMT
I just think we should have gone all out for promotion and gave ourselves every possible chance of getting in the play-offs before we have to rebuild the squad, I reckon deep down darrell clarke will be a bit put out about events in january but obviously that is just my opinion. I never buy into this not ready for promotion stuff,i think barnsley came up via the play-offs and there doing ok so why not us? I don't know what Barnsley's infrastructure is like, but I think it's safe to assume they will have proper training facilities etc, especially as they were in the Prem within recent memory. They also have a decent, all seater stadium with 20k + capacity, so it's no real surprise they are doing OK in the Championship. you cannot compare us with them at the moment. If we get the new stadium then in a few years we will be much bigger but at the moment? No.
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Post by stevek192 on Feb 13, 2017 8:45:41 GMT
Unfortunately in football things don't always happen when you want them to or plan for them and promotion doesn't come when you want it. You have to react to situations and take your chance when it comes along even if it is too soon. One thing that is for sure is that you have to find a formation that works and set about improving the players in it to play it.
It would have been interesting to have been able to see Monty and Moore playing on the wing for Bradford on Saturday to see how they would have done without having to do all the defensive duties which DC asks of them. Bradford play a different way because they GIVE the ball to their wingers early and let them do the damage with their full backs BACKING them up and therefore the situation did not really exist ;other than a few occasions ; where their full backs were caught forward and we were able to attack behind them. Monty did still manage to get past them a few times and got two or three shots in and two or three crosses.
Now compare a quality midfielder like Law with Sinclair. One covers the whole of the pitch by running all over it whilst the other covers the pitch with good positioning and holding his position but also makes dangerous runs. IMO Lines was as good as Law in a different sort of way and first half although Bradford had a lot of possession we actually created the most chances. You just cannot afford to have a player like Sinclair UNLESS you play him in the hole to pressurise the defenders in front of a stable midfield. Bradford were an organised unit that kept their shape for 90 minutes. If we had kept our full backs in and played wingers in front of them I don't think there would have been so many crosses coming in however that aside we can take plusses from the fact that we didn't concede a second despite the pressure and could have snatched the victory if we had not wasted the ball so often with very careless passes and decision making.
Yes we need more quality but we will need that whichever division we are in next season. If we could choose our fate this season peraonally I would say sneak into the Play offs , get to the final and lose a pulsating final- but football rarely dishes up what you want!!!
Whatever happens we have witnessed a good season so far and have players who give their all for the club but we do need that bit of quality to help them out. It is finding that quality which is the problem without having to spend the earth.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2017 8:48:34 GMT
I just think we should have gone all out for promotion and gave ourselves every possible chance of getting in the play-offs before we have to rebuild the squad, I reckon deep down darrell clarke will be a bit put out about events in january but obviously that is just my opinion. I never buy into this not ready for promotion stuff,i think barnsley came up via the play-offs and there doing ok so why not us? There is a 16% chance of being relegated from the Championship after promotion. Barnsley are a bad example as the Championship is there natural level with 76 years at level 2. They were in the prem and have had strong seasons at that level since. We are a developing club who are probably closer to FGR than Barnsley in terms of infrastructure.
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stuart1974
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Post by stuart1974 on Feb 13, 2017 9:26:59 GMT
Unfortunately in football things don't always happen when you want them to or plan for them and promotion doesn't come when you want it. You have to react to situations and take your chance when it comes along even if it is too soon. One thing that is for sure is that you have to find a formation that works and set about improving the players in it to play it. It would have been interesting to have been able to see Monty and Moore playing on the wing for Bradford on Saturday to see how they would have done without having to do all the defensive duties which DC asks of them. Bradford play a different way because they GIVE the ball to their wingers early and let them do the damage with their full backs BACKING them up and therefore the situation did not really exist ;other than a few occasions ; where their full backs were caught forward and we were able to attack behind them. Monty did still manage to get past them a few times and got two or three shots in and two or three crosses. Now compare a quality midfielder like Law with Sinclair. One covers the whole of the pitch by running all over it whilst the other covers the pitch with good positioning and holding his position but also makes dangerous runs. IMO Lines was as good as Law in a different sort of way and first half although Bradford had a lot of possession we actually created the most chances. You just cannot afford to have a player like Sinclair UNLESS you play him in the hole to pressurise the defenders in front of a stable midfield. Bradford were an organised unit that kept their shape for 90 minutes. If we had kept our full backs in and played wingers in front of them I don't think there would have been so many crosses coming in however that aside we can take plusses from the fact that we didn't concede a second despite the pressure and could have snatched the victory if we had not wasted the ball so often with very careless passes and decision making. Yes we need more quality but we will need that whichever division we are in next season. If we could choose our fate this season peraonally I would say sneak into the Play offs , get to the final and lose a pulsating final- but football rarely dishes up what you want!!! Whatever happens we have witnessed a good season so far and have players who give their all for the club but we do need that bit of quality to help them out. It is finding that quality which is the problem without having to spend the earth. I think this year and this division is perhaps the only time that would be the preferred option, but agree with you. We are in my view at least 2 seasons away with the infrastructure but momentum could keep us up for one year so only one to bridge if we go up. I will stick my neck out here as this is nothing but a gut feel, I thnk we will sign a new spine of the team in the summer of top L1 or Championship quality with at least two high profile (and costly) players.
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Post by faggotygas on Feb 13, 2017 9:54:07 GMT
I just think we should have gone all out for promotion and gave ourselves every possible chance of getting in the play-offs before we have to rebuild the squad, I reckon deep down darrell clarke will be a bit put out about events in january but obviously that is just my opinion. I never buy into this not ready for promotion stuff,i think barnsley came up via the play-offs and there doing ok so why not us? Because Barnsely have more resources than us - a 23,000 seater stadium with facilities, and a level 2 academy. And they weren't in the bleeding Conference 2 years ago!
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Post by 2nd May 1990 on Feb 13, 2017 10:21:45 GMT
Unfortunately in football things don't always happen when you want them to or plan for them and promotion doesn't come when you want it. You have to react to situations and take your chance when it comes along even if it is too soon. One thing that is for sure is that you have to find a formation that works and set about improving the players in it to play it. It would have been interesting to have been able to see Monty and Moore playing on the wing for Bradford on Saturday to see how they would have done without having to do all the defensive duties which DC asks of them. Bradford play a different way because they GIVE the ball to their wingers early and let them do the damage with their full backs BACKING them up and therefore the situation did not really exist ;other than a few occasions ; where their full backs were caught forward and we were able to attack behind them. Monty did still manage to get past them a few times and got two or three shots in and two or three crosses. Now compare a quality midfielder like Law with Sinclair. One covers the whole of the pitch by running all over it whilst the other covers the pitch with good positioning and holding his position but also makes dangerous runs. IMO Lines was as good as Law in a different sort of way and first half although Bradford had a lot of possession we actually created the most chances. You just cannot afford to have a player like Sinclair UNLESS you play him in the hole to pressurise the defenders in front of a stable midfield. Bradford were an organised unit that kept their shape for 90 minutes. If we had kept our full backs in and played wingers in front of them I don't think there would have been so many crosses coming in however that aside we can take plusses from the fact that we didn't concede a second despite the pressure and could have snatched the victory if we had not wasted the ball so often with very careless passes and decision making. Yes we need more quality but we will need that whichever division we are in next season. If we could choose our fate this season peraonally I would say sneak into the Play offs , get to the final and lose a pulsating final- but football rarely dishes up what you want!!! Whatever happens we have witnessed a good season so far and have players who give their all for the club but we do need that bit of quality to help them out. It is finding that quality which is the problem without having to spend the earth. Perception is interesting. Bradford fans are a bit frustrated with Law and see him as someone who looks pretty on the ball but doesn't find an incisive end product often enough. Their man of the match by some way on Saturday was Vincelot and yet consistently our forum users were most impressed with Law. Not saying either view is more credible than the other. If you see players week in week out you build up a bigger picture of their contribution, whereas if you see them as a one off you have a more detached and dispassionate viewpoint. Opposing fans are often more impressed with Sinclair than out fans for similar reasons of perception. I feel we often don't give him the credit he deserves for what he consistently does well because we are aware of his limitations. I think we all agree that he can fulfil an important role as a pressing player, but having said that, he also has more than one string to his bow. It's easy to forget the great ball he played just last week to Brown against Rochdale, for instance. He is still learning his game on the job, like many of our side, and I think it's reasonable to give them more time to do this, to have faith that these progressive players can keep progressing and not be too impatient when they falter sometimes. Whether we like it or not, we're not going to spend vast sums of money to bring in the quality we need. This is why promotion this year could be problematic for us in the long term. The wage jump to the championship is big. We can't sustainably pay those wages whilst our future is at the Mem. If the stadium gets the go ahead then things might change, but at the moment, by continuing to improve the existing squad through excellent coaching and by adding players capable of progression themselves, we will give ourselves the best chance to progress on solid foundations.
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Post by markczgas on Feb 13, 2017 10:30:00 GMT
I hope we have a good run for the final third but I think promotion this season could be a disaster. We as a club are just not ready for the Championship. When I think of how many crosses in behind our defence Bradford managed, a decent set of Championship forwards would have murdered us. I sit in the Uplands and I could see, time and again that the space we left for them to attack down the flanks was ridiculous. I just don't see the point in leaving yourself so vulnerable to be opened up by the back line having to retreat to deal with the inevitable cross into the box. Why not stop the winger or overlapping full back getting away down the flank? I think DC is well aware he needs a couple more forwards and perhaps even a powerful midfielder to complement Lines. I think he will be intending to do a bit of closed season recruiting to fill those requirements. I would rather have a storming season in league one than see us get tanked every week in the Championship and end up getting relegated, because I think that's what would happen if we go up this year. I know what you mean oldgas, whenever I sit in the Dribuild it's so clear that both our full backs give so much room for the wingers to either cross or drift into space. They rarely close them down quick enough. I guess it's to do with them both being attacking full backs, and in this league we don't get punished too much, in the championship we would but if were we to get there I am sure DC would strengthen all over. Yesterday I was in the Thatchers and it wasn't as clear being at pitch level but the number of crosses that came in meant it was the same. But tbf to DC and the club we mustn't get too worried about what would happen if we went up. Yes of course it would be harder and I would worry about where the goals might come from and I would worry about other areas etc.! But I don't think we will go up esp now after the window, I never thought we were among the best six teams and we definitely aren't now! But I don't care, I'm just enjoying a season when we are doing very well, playing good football, competing against the best in our league and not having a major worry about Relegation! We are slightly over achieving with a team who are very similar to last year and the year before. We have players who play with pride and give their all and we have our Rovers back! So if we played Millwall needing a win to get in the play offs then great and would celebrate like fury if we did but if we play them in any position from 18th to 10th then I will still be happy. UTG! I think it's DC's set up. If you watch other teams, this is quite common. Tuck your fullbacks close to the CBs to make a compact back 4. I personally don't agree with it, like you lodges, as I think any cross coming in can be a potential goal.
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Post by markczgas on Feb 13, 2017 10:32:49 GMT
lodges ?? meant Oldgas
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Post by warehamgas on Feb 13, 2017 10:43:51 GMT
Unfortunately in football things don't always happen when you want them to or plan for them and promotion doesn't come when you want it. You have to react to situations and take your chance when it comes along even if it is too soon. One thing that is for sure is that you have to find a formation that works and set about improving the players in it to play it. It would have been interesting to have been able to see Monty and Moore playing on the wing for Bradford on Saturday to see how they would have done without having to do all the defensive duties which DC asks of them. Bradford play a different way because they GIVE the ball to their wingers early and let them do the damage with their full backs BACKING them up and therefore the situation did not really exist ;other than a few occasions ; where their full backs were caught forward and we were able to attack behind them. Monty did still manage to get past them a few times and got two or three shots in and two or three crosses. Now compare a quality midfielder like Law with Sinclair. One covers the whole of the pitch by running all over it whilst the other covers the pitch with good positioning and holding his position but also makes dangerous runs. IMO Lines was as good as Law in a different sort of way and first half although Bradford had a lot of possession we actually created the most chances. You just cannot afford to have a player like Sinclair UNLESS you play him in the hole to pressurise the defenders in front of a stable midfield. Bradford were an organised unit that kept their shape for 90 minutes. If we had kept our full backs in and played wingers in front of them I don't think there would have been so many crosses coming in however that aside we can take plusses from the fact that we didn't concede a second despite the pressure and could have snatched the victory if we had not wasted the ball so often with very careless passes and decision making. Yes we need more quality but we will need that whichever division we are in next season. If we could choose our fate this season peraonally I would say sneak into the Play offs , get to the final and lose a pulsating final- but football rarely dishes up what you want!!! Whatever happens we have witnessed a good season so far and have players who give their all for the club but we do need that bit of quality to help them out. It is finding that quality which is the problem without having to spend the earth. Yes we need to take every opportunity to go up and I agree that SS was not as effective on Saturday as he was against Swindon, probably for the reasons you've mentioned. On the Bradford forum opinion is split about Nicky Law, some like him others don't think he does enough. I liked him but thought he didn't influence the game enough. A quality goal and very good first half but I just thought he could have done better and sat back too much. They should have won tbh and they didn't because they didn't commit enough and our determination got us a point. I guess he is a better player technically than SS but he didn't have the commitment and determination of SS. Mix the two together you're get a very, very good midfielder. UTG!
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Post by warehamgas on Feb 13, 2017 10:50:21 GMT
I know what you mean oldgas, whenever I sit in the Dribuild it's so clear that both our full backs give so much room for the wingers to either cross or drift into space. They rarely close them down quick enough. I guess it's to do with them both being attacking full backs, and in this league we don't get punished too much, in the championship we would but if were we to get there I am sure DC would strengthen all over. Yesterday I was in the Thatchers and it wasn't as clear being at pitch level but the number of crosses that came in meant it was the same. But tbf to DC and the club we mustn't get too worried about what would happen if we went up. Yes of course it would be harder and I would worry about where the goals might come from and I would worry about other areas etc.! But I don't think we will go up esp now after the window, I never thought we were among the best six teams and we definitely aren't now! But I don't care, I'm just enjoying a season when we are doing very well, playing good football, competing against the best in our league and not having a major worry about Relegation! We are slightly over achieving with a team who are very similar to last year and the year before. We have players who play with pride and give their all and we have our Rovers back! So if we played Millwall needing a win to get in the play offs then great and would celebrate like fury if we did but if we play them in any position from 18th to 10th then I will still be happy. UTG! I think it's DC's set up. If you watch other teams, this is quite common. Tuck your fullbacks close to the CBs to make a compact back 4. I personally don't agree with it, like you lodges, as I think any cross coming in can be a potential goal. Yes, it is exactly that. DC sets the team up like that so it's no surprise that it happens. Wasn't at Rochdale so I don't know if playing Joe P would make a difference. And playing a narrower defence means that we weren't punished on Saturday because most of the crosses in weren't any better than ours! We say we would get punished against better teams but tbh Bradford are one of the better teams so I was encouraged by what I saw. UTG!
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Post by Topper Gas on Feb 13, 2017 10:53:04 GMT
16% is surprisingly low, perhaps it was worth going all out for promotion this season after all!
I know times have changed but when we were last in the Championship, as it is now, we played at Twerton and trained, I recall, at Frys.
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Post by warehamgas on Feb 13, 2017 11:05:31 GMT
And didn't Martin ONeill come to us for talks about becoming our manager in the Championship, saw our facilities, laughed and decided Wycombe had better facilities in non league or were they Div 4? Am sure that was in Ray Kendall's book. But times have changed and it would be harder to play in the Championship now I would imagine esp with about 16/17 wannabe PL clubs spending money like water. Whatever your views we need to catch up quickly with the infrastructure stuff and remain competitive on the pitch at the same time. And we are in a much better situation than we were 3 years ago, than we were 2 years ago and even where we were 1 year ago so it's a good picture overall.
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Post by althepirate on Feb 13, 2017 11:33:53 GMT
Reading the comments on this thread is an indication how far we have travelled in the last three seasons. We never used to talk about infrastructure, no money for that or even playing staff!. A few games after Wael arrived I sensed a big shift in atmosphere at the Mem. Even amongst cynical and critical football supporters there was know a shift towards hope, real hope. Bigger attendances,success on the pitch and more fans through the gates. We seem like a broken jigsaw that has suddenly put itself together. Money is not the root of all evil after all, perhaps poverty should take that mantle.
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