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Post by Topper Gas on May 3, 2017 20:06:21 GMT
Surely the fact we've been losing a £1m+ a season suggests our break even must be far greater than our income from attendances etc. If the average ticket price is, say, £15 that's a 66,000 shortfall in fans a season, or nearly 3,000 fans a match. So if the losses are £1m we need nearly 12,500 fans per match. The worry is if DC want's a bigger wage budget where it's going to come from as attendances are probably maxing out at the Mem? Which begs the question, are we really overachieving or just achieving?
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Post by gregsy on May 3, 2017 20:11:58 GMT
I can only guess that every other club has to deal with shortfalls and breakeven figures, it's mearly more of a question of the people who run the clubs to find ways to deal with it, and ultimately make things work viably.... I don't think these kind of figures are unique to us so they really aren't too much to worry about?
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Post by rovers5charlton5 on May 3, 2017 20:23:02 GMT
Educated guess by DC, unless most of the managers in the league have told him their exact budget. One thing I know from accounts is that our budget was similar to Burton Albion in 2016 and they did alright. To be fair to DC it probably is bottom 8 then as I doubt Burton were big spenders given their average attendance? I've looked at some clubs accounts and the likes of Millwall and Walsall did have far bigger turnovers/wage budgets then us, plus given we only signed Hartley & Moore last summer I doubt up to January at least DC did have a big budget to spend. It just goes to show you, money spent is less important than finding and improving the right players. Well done Burton!
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Post by Topper Gas on May 3, 2017 20:27:33 GMT
Apparently Div 1 clubs lost on average £1.7m p.a. in 2014/15
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Post by aghast on May 3, 2017 20:45:40 GMT
I don't think I can see any way of understanding how we need to average more than 12,000 to break even when DC has spent about £3.65 on players in the last three years and most of the squad were originally on Conference wages plus undisclosed enhancements. Have you taken into account the interest payable on our £10 million credit line ? I'd be very surprised if Dwane Sports Ltd were charging BRFC (1883) Ltd interest on our loan. They might be, I suppose.
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Post by Hugo the Elder on May 3, 2017 20:53:32 GMT
Have you taken into account the interest payable on our £10 million credit line ? I'd be very surprised if Dwane Sports Ltd were charging BRFC (1883) Ltd interest on our loan. They might be, I suppose. Not like there is any president for this...
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Post by knowall on May 3, 2017 21:29:30 GMT
Looking at this season teams DC may well be telling the truth about only having a bottom 8 budget, as last season's Div I teams like Swindle may well have add a bigger wage budget than teams coming up form Div 2, if so, the division based in wages could look something like this: Sheffield United Southend United Bolton Wanderers Bradford City Charlton Athletic Fleetwood Town Millwall Milton Keynes Dons Peterborough United Scunthorpe United Oxford United Walsall Southend United Swindon Town Gillingham Chesterfield Port Vale Bristol Rovers Coventry City Bury AFC Wimbledon Northampton Town Oldham Athletic Rochdale Shrewsbury Town guessing does nobody any good - and you are way off the mark anyway with your guessing. Better research needed and you might be surprised
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2017 22:00:49 GMT
UWE ain't happening - what a load of ole codswallop!
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2017 23:43:34 GMT
UWE ain't happening - what a load of ole codswallop! Come on man.... Henbury knows a guy. X
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Post by swissgas on May 4, 2017 0:52:48 GMT
Have you taken into account the interest payable on our £10 million credit line ? I'd be very surprised if Dwane Sports Ltd were charging BRFC (1883) Ltd interest on our loan. They might be, I suppose. Previous years accounts were quite transparent about the interest rates charged on directors loans and bonds with the loans being at 2.5% - 4.0% and the 3 year bonds at 3.5% over base rate. The directors and shareholders did not charge any interest in 2015 and at the time of the takeover wrote off the accumulated interest from previous years to which they were entitled and which amounted to £ 607 000. Interest on the MSP Capital loan was charged at 1.2% per month and the amount outstanding remained at £2 730 000 from 1/7/15 to the date of the takeover. Therefore the amount of interest payable on the MSP Capital loan during this period can be estimated at about £ 260 000. Interest of about £ 30 000 was also due to preference shareholders during the 2016 financial year so taken together about £ 290 000 was payable. Interest was waived on the previous shareholders loans and bonds so it appears that nothing else was payable. The accounts show a total of £ 435 000 charged during the full year so it would appear that Dwane Sports Ltd charged £ 145 000 for the period from 18/2/16 to 30/6/16. The initial amount injected was £ 6 211 000 and the amount owed at the year end was £ 7 200 000 so, if my figures are correct, the interest rate charged by Dwane Sports Ltd would be between 5.5% and 6.5%. I stand to be corrected if my interpretation of the 2016 accounts is wrong and I am making no judgement on whether or not Dwane Sports Ltd should be charging interest or at what rate. But if we accept the principle that this is a commercial transaction between two companies, and that on a credit line of £ 10 million Rovers could be charged up to £ 650 000 interest per year, I wonder how sustainable it is since we have been told we will continue to make trading losses until a new stadium is operational ?
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Post by Henbury Gas on May 4, 2017 6:24:15 GMT
UWE ain't happening - what a load of ole codswallop! Come on man.... Henbury knows a guy. X I know f**k all ask knowall he knows you know
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Post by newmarketgas on May 4, 2017 6:26:32 GMT
Looking at this season teams DC may well be telling the truth about only having a bottom 8 budget, as last season's Div I teams like Swindle may well have add a bigger wage budget than teams coming up form Div 2, if so, the division based in wages could look something like this: Sheffield United Southend United Bolton Wanderers Bradford City Charlton Athletic Fleetwood Town Millwall Milton Keynes Dons Peterborough United Scunthorpe United Oxford United Walsall Southend United Swindon Town Gillingham Chesterfield Port Vale Bristol Rovers Coventry City Bury AFC Wimbledon Northampton Town Oldham Athletic Rochdale Shrewsbury Town guessing does nobody any good - and you are way off the mark anyway with your guessing. Better research needed and you might be surprised Since you seem to know, could you pop them in the right order ? Thanks.
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2017 7:13:35 GMT
Looking at this season teams DC may well be telling the truth about only having a bottom 8 budget, as last season's Div I teams like Swindle may well have add a bigger wage budget than teams coming up form Div 2, if so, the division based in wages could look something like this: Sheffield United Southend United Bolton Wanderers Bradford City Charlton Athletic Fleetwood Town Millwall Milton Keynes Dons Peterborough United Scunthorpe United Oxford United Walsall Southend United Swindon Town Gillingham Chesterfield Port Vale Bristol Rovers Coventry City Bury AFC Wimbledon Northampton Town Oldham Athletic Rochdale Shrewsbury Town What does "budget" actually mean? Is this disposable income or money provided for all outgoings including infrastructure/advertising. Does playing budget cover physios and coaching staff, hotels and travel, tracksuits and cones, or just transfer activity. Do budgets adjust if the club exits or gets further in a competition or are shown on SKY(unethical company)? Is the budget affected if your team sacks the manager?
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2017 7:21:16 GMT
Don't answer! I see there is a comprehensive post on the budget thread.
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Post by gregsy on May 4, 2017 7:36:39 GMT
Don't answer! I see there is a comprehensive post on the budget thread. all the budget talk has got fragmented on to 2 or 3 threads.... it's getting hard to follow now....
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Post by knowall on May 4, 2017 7:47:08 GMT
Come on man.... Henbury knows a guy. X I know f**k all ask knowall he knows you know I certainly do not know your friend in 'planning' who you keep claiming gives you confidential information
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Post by countygroundhotel on May 4, 2017 8:37:45 GMT
I'd be very surprised if Dwane Sports Ltd were charging BRFC (1883) Ltd interest on our loan. They might be, I suppose. Previous years accounts were quite transparent about the interest rates charged on directors loans and bonds with the loans being at 2.5% - 4.0% and the 3 year bonds at 3.5% over base rate. The directors and shareholders did not charge any interest in 2015 and at the time of the takeover wrote off the accumulated interest from previous years to which they were entitled and which amounted to £ 607 000. Interest on the MSP Capital loan was charged at 1.2% per month and the amount outstanding remained at £2 730 000 from 1/7/15 to the date of the takeover. Therefore the amount of interest payable on the MSP Capital loan during this period can be estimated at about £ 260 000. Interest of about £ 30 000 was also due to preference shareholders during the 2016 financial year so taken together about £ 290 000 was payable. Interest was waived on the previous shareholders loans and bonds so it appears that nothing else was payable. The accounts show a total of £ 435 000 charged during the full year so it would appear that Dwane Sports Ltd charged £ 145 000 for the period from 18/2/16 to 30/6/16. The initial amount injected was £ 6 211 000 and the amount owed at the year end was £ 7 200 000 so, if my figures are correct, the interest rate charged by Dwane Sports Ltd would be between 5.5% and 6.5%. I stand to be corrected if my interpretation of the 2016 accounts is wrong and I am making no judgement on whether or not Dwane Sports Ltd should be charging interest or at what rate. But if we accept the principle that this is a commercial transaction between two companies, and that on a credit line of £ 10 million Rovers could be charged up to £ 650 000 interest per year, I wonder how sustainable it is since we have been told we will continue to make trading losses until a new stadium is operational ? People aren't interested Swiss, the concensus is that Dwane Sports is Bristol Rovers just ignore the fact that they recognise that they only own 92.6% of Bristol Rovers. I'm sure that they are charging interest if only to convert it to equity at a later stage thus diluting the independent shareholders 7.4% further. People on here don't even blink at the contradictory Chairman's statement where he quite clearly says Dwane Sports have purchased new training facilities (so expect them to charge the Club rent to use those facilities) and then says the Club now own it's own training facilities. People would rather believe in some Jordanian money tree paying for everything. PS despite all of the above I do have more faith in current owners delivering progress on and off the pitch than previous owners, however if it all goes tits up we'll be in as bad if not worse position under them
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2017 9:16:52 GMT
Previous years accounts were quite transparent about the interest rates charged on directors loans and bonds with the loans being at 2.5% - 4.0% and the 3 year bonds at 3.5% over base rate. The directors and shareholders did not charge any interest in 2015 and at the time of the takeover wrote off the accumulated interest from previous years to which they were entitled and which amounted to £ 607 000. Interest on the MSP Capital loan was charged at 1.2% per month and the amount outstanding remained at £2 730 000 from 1/7/15 to the date of the takeover. Therefore the amount of interest payable on the MSP Capital loan during this period can be estimated at about £ 260 000. Interest of about £ 30 000 was also due to preference shareholders during the 2016 financial year so taken together about £ 290 000 was payable. Interest was waived on the previous shareholders loans and bonds so it appears that nothing else was payable. The accounts show a total of £ 435 000 charged during the full year so it would appear that Dwane Sports Ltd charged £ 145 000 for the period from 18/2/16 to 30/6/16. The initial amount injected was £ 6 211 000 and the amount owed at the year end was £ 7 200 000 so, if my figures are correct, the interest rate charged by Dwane Sports Ltd would be between 5.5% and 6.5%. I stand to be corrected if my interpretation of the 2016 accounts is wrong and I am making no judgement on whether or not Dwane Sports Ltd should be charging interest or at what rate. But if we accept the principle that this is a commercial transaction between two companies, and that on a credit line of £ 10 million Rovers could be charged up to £ 650 000 interest per year, I wonder how sustainable it is since we have been told we will continue to make trading losses until a new stadium is operational ? People aren't interested Swiss, the concensus is that Dwane Sports is Bristol Rovers just ignore the fact that they recognise that they only own 92.6% of Bristol Rovers. I'm sure that they are charging interest if only to convert it to equity at a later stage thus diluting the independent shareholders 7.4% further. People on here don't even blink at the contradictory Chairman's statement where he quite clearly says Dwane Sports have purchased new training facilities (so expect them to charge the Club rent to use those facilities) and then says the Club now own it's own training facilities. People would rather believe in some Jordanian money tree paying for everything. PS despite all of the above I do have more faith in current owners delivering progress on and off the pitch than previous owners, however if it all goes tits up we'll be in as bad if not worse position under them Spot on
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Post by Severncider on May 4, 2017 9:26:26 GMT
guessing does nobody any good - and you are way off the mark anyway with your guessing. Better research needed and you might be surprised Since you seem to know, could you pop them in the right order ? Thanks. Steve Brookfield said at the AGM we were about 12th.
Forget what DC has been saying. His comments are usually after an away defeat and he is a bit upset.
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Post by Henbury Gas on May 4, 2017 9:48:49 GMT
I know f**k all ask knowall he knows you know I certainly do not know your friend in 'planning' who you keep claiming gives you confidential information As i say i KNOW Feckall i just report what is probably in the public domain soon after i get to hear about it
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