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Post by darkbluegas on Feb 7, 2020 15:37:19 GMT
No. There’s no tenancy agreement in place with a specified rent/return required. But what is the difference between the agreement in place now? Could have a owners that build a stadium and buy the club. Surely that is exactly is almost exactly what is going on now, but the Al Qadi will not be building a stadium? it bothers me that people are suggesting that if we are bought buy a consortium, they have some agenda to build a stadium but will just let the club go under. In the first point we can’t be given notice to leave the stadium as would be the case if we were tenants. On the second point, I think it’s more worrying that people think there is no agenda. Maybe ask the Coventry fans what they think of that idea as they wander around the midlands looking for a pitch to play on. We’ve done this once in our history when we gave over financial control of our stadium and only just got away with it. Can’t see us being that lucky twice.
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Post by darkbluegas on Feb 7, 2020 15:19:46 GMT
The options are improvement of our facilities in a manageable manner whilst retaining ownership of the ground/site or hope that someone gifts us £50-£60million. Whilst the latter would be nice it’s not happening. I think the danger is we do nothing in the hope that we unearth a gashead lansdown. The most dangerous option are these consortiums that turn up like the fruit basket crowd that will see us as effective tenants in a ground. Might be a nice treat short term we all know long term it doesn’t work without a very wealthy backer. Are we not tenants already, arent the football club and the stadium owned/registered to two separate entities? No. There’s no tenancy agreement in place with a specified rent/return required.
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Post by darkbluegas on Feb 7, 2020 15:08:51 GMT
Exactly, they didn’t have the money themselves. Neither does Wael and I’m guessing it’s a bit beyond Tom Gorringe. It’s one thing knowing what “needs” to be done and being able to facilitate it happening. The football club clearly can’t afford it and doesn’t have the financial clout to borrow the amount needed to make it happen. So where do you imagine it goes from here. The only way we get a new stadium is as tenants. Unless we find an investor who is prepared to lose/use tens of millions of their own money. Again, unless someone can come up with an alternative option. Yeah I agree, but that didn't seem to be the point you were making previously, unless I misunderstood it - either way doesn't matter now. We're in a tough situation where we either do the up Mem stand by stand or hope someone will save us. But for anyone to say we don't need a new stadium is lunacy The options are improvement of our facilities in a manageable manner whilst retaining ownership of the ground/site or hope that someone gifts us £50-£60million. Whilst the latter would be nice it’s not happening. I think the danger is we do nothing in the hope that we unearth a gashead lansdown. The most dangerous option are these consortiums that turn up like the fruit basket crowd that will see us as effective tenants in a ground. Might be a nice treat short term we all know long term it doesn’t work without a very wealthy backer.
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Post by darkbluegas on Feb 7, 2020 14:24:15 GMT
And how did that work out for Dunford and Higgs? Neither of them could make the figures add up No, they just didn’t have the cash themselves. But go on, do tell me how you know more than the 4 of those who’ve owned/worked at football clubs and analyzed the situation. Exactly, they didn’t have the money themselves. Neither does Wael and I’m guessing it’s a bit beyond Tom Gorringe. It’s one thing knowing what “needs” to be done and being able to facilitate it happening. The football club clearly can’t afford it and doesn’t have the financial clout to borrow the amount needed to make it happen. So where do you imagine it goes from here. The only way we get a new stadium is as tenants. Unless we find an investor who is prepared to lose/use tens of millions of their own money. Again, unless someone can come up with an alternative option.
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Post by darkbluegas on Feb 7, 2020 13:55:30 GMT
I’m guessing you don’t run a business. I'm guessing you don't run any successful ones, considering Dunford, Higgs, Wael & Gorringe said we need a stadium to survive. I'd take all of their opinions above anyone on this forum. And how did that work out for Dunford and Higgs? Neither of them could make the figures add up
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Post by darkbluegas on Feb 7, 2020 8:29:58 GMT
Increase in ticket sales, hospitality, private hire/conferences/events (this alone would be millions), concerts/other events, naming rights, food & drink increase, museum & tours & stand sponsorship (worth more than now). Don't forget that stadiums also attract better players & more investors etc. Everyone around us is getting better stadiums & we already have to pay over the odds to attract players. I actually think a stadium would reduce our wage bill tbh. Eventually as everyone else develops, we get left behind and actually become the club that no one wants to play for. We can't survive long term without a new stadium. Dunford, Higgs, Wael and Gorringe have all said this. I'm not sure why people on here suddenly believe they know better and think we don't need one? Of course we need a new stadium, people are absolutely mad suggesting we do not. I do understand the principle of what you’re saying and can see the benefits. However where are the figures. I don’t see how a club with a couple of million maybe in equity build a facility that would, judging by other clubs recent experiences, costs in excess of £50 million. Unless they give up ownership. It’s not working out all that well financially for Bolton, Sunderland and Coventry. I don’t mean to be negative on this matter but this situation with the last so say investors has illustrated that it’s the Mem site that it is the focus of the deal for some not the future of Rovers
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Post by darkbluegas on Feb 6, 2020 23:28:43 GMT
And supporters like you are the reason why we have never progressed. Are you really happy with an old out of date ,rusty, falling down stadium ? Well i'm not . As 've said on numerous occasions stay at the Mem we will die at the Mem. ...I’m merely pointing out the obvious and its supporters like you who have the problem. Our gates do not justify a stadium of 10000 or more, our revenue from gates of less than 10000 will never repay the debt, thats simple maths. The Mem site isn’t valuable enough to generate the capital sum necessary to fund a move away and at the moment it’s collateral again monies invested by our owners. If they sell the club I very much doubt they’ll sell the ground to the new owners. The only way we get a new stadium is if someone buys the club and stumps up for it with virtually no chance of making a financial return against the investment and probably make an on going loss, that’s like dreaming about the money tree. Again I suggest we concentrate on enjoying the football and don’t fantasise about the mythical new stadium. In all these fantasy stadium plans no one can produce any financial argument that in any way suggests the club would survive as owner occupiers. As tenants we’d be right back where we were when we sold Eastville. People decry any redevelopment of the Mem as though it’s beneath us, yet we’ve not laid one brick on another since the 1950’s
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Post by darkbluegas on Feb 6, 2020 16:20:17 GMT
In its current form, of course no one would mourn leaving the Mem but the location is a whole other thing. The worlds biggest clubs don’t give up their spiritual homes because they know the value of their heritage brand. There is a reason why “ Investor Developers “ show interest in getting their hands on us and shipping us off to some industrial estate you know. Thankfully Wael seems to have seen through the last lot trying to get their hands on our very valuable asset. If we move away from the city and our historical home there is no going back. Can you imagine the value in owning the Eastville site now? I think supporters in seventy years time maybe thinking how could the club ever consider selling the Mem site. Is the Mem really our "spiritual home" or one we manged to get by chance when the rugby club went bust, as far as land values, the Mem site is never going to be as valuable as Eastville became once we moved out. Whilst we got pp in the past for an 18K stadium I'm not sure if we'd get it now. Sorry didn’t mean the Mem, I was referring to our history in Purdown and the Muller Road Area.
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Post by darkbluegas on Feb 6, 2020 10:03:27 GMT
Was that a direct lift from the Local Developers ( insert name of well known local developer) Sales Brochure. Think its common knowledge that The Mem will never be viable for a 20-25k seater stadium. Ok, so we’re selling the Mem to build a stadium capable of sustaining top level championship football. To be sustainable over the long term with no Russian billionaire investment, how big does it need to be?
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Post by darkbluegas on Feb 6, 2020 9:54:21 GMT
In its current form, of course no one would mourn leaving the Mem but the location is a whole other thing. The worlds biggest clubs don’t give up their spiritual homes because they know the value of their heritage brand. There is a reason why “ Investor Developers “ show interest in getting their hands on us and shipping us off to some industrial estate you know. Thankfully Wael seems to have seen through the last lot trying to get their hands on our very valuable asset. If we move away from the city and our historical home there is no going back. Can you imagine the value in owning the Eastville site now? I think supporters in seventy years time maybe thinking how could the club ever consider selling the Mem site. The Mem site can only be rebuilt to a capacity of Circa 18k though, if I'm right in thinking, and that's utilising every single nook and cranny. If we did ever have a bit of success and end up in The Premier League like Bournemouth, we'd be like they are now wanting to build an even bigger one because of the demand. Was that a direct lift from the Local Developers ( insert name of well known local developer) Sales Brochure.
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Post by darkbluegas on Feb 6, 2020 9:36:33 GMT
There’s arguments on both sides for new stadiums. Bournemouth could play in the park, attendances barely show up in the money flowing into the club. Arsenal and West Ham fans don’t have universally positive views of moving to new stadiums. The regulars I mean not the tourists. Maybe Francgas was making the point we’re no nearer getting a new stadium than we were in 1980 at Stoke Gifford. Maybe getting started on the Mem may serve us better. It’s served the other place well, along with many others. Arsenal and West ham fans had good old fashioned stadiums in the first place, that's why. So some were sad to leave. Will anyone be sad to leave the mem?? The Emirates is a lot better stadium though and brings in a lot more money. In its current form, of course no one would mourn leaving the Mem but the location is a whole other thing. The worlds biggest clubs don’t give up their spiritual homes because they know the value of their heritage brand. There is a reason why “ Investor Developers “ show interest in getting their hands on us and shipping us off to some industrial estate you know. Thankfully Wael seems to have seen through the last lot trying to get their hands on our very valuable asset. If we move away from the city and our historical home there is no going back. Can you imagine the value in owning the Eastville site now? I think supporters in seventy years time maybe thinking how could the club ever consider selling the Mem site.
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Post by darkbluegas on Feb 6, 2020 8:40:38 GMT
I only tend to come on here late at night and generally wish I hadn’t bothered, tonight and this thread reminds me why I feel that way. This nonsense has been going on for over 45 years and still there are those who buy it, when it’s quite obvious we aren’t getting a new stadium. It has been promised over and agin by every successive owner and guess what, it never happens. There are simple reasons why not of course, starting with the simple fact we don’t need a 20000 or 15000 or even 10000 capacity stadium and then how would it ever generate enough revenue to repay its cost. If we ever got a 20000 capacity stadium, we’d go broke within a couple of years trying to repay the costs, so why don’t we just concentrate making the best of the Mem and enjoy Div 3 survival. That's the spirit let's just maintain the status quo. Try telling Reading, Brighton, Brentford, Cardiff, Swansea fans they didn't / dont need a bigger stadium with better facilities. Try telling Bournemouth who virtually sell out every home match they don't need a bigger stadium. It wasn't that long ago we were regularly playing these clubs and they were getting attendances lower that what we're getting now. There’s arguments on both sides for new stadiums. Bournemouth could play in the park, attendances barely show up in the money flowing into the club. Arsenal and West Ham fans don’t have universally positive views of moving to new stadiums. The regulars I mean not the tourists. Maybe Francgas was making the point we’re no nearer getting a new stadium than we were in 1980 at Stoke Gifford. Maybe getting started on the Mem may serve us better. It’s served the other place well, along with many others.
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Post by darkbluegas on Feb 5, 2020 14:37:23 GMT
Yeah, with hindsight, there was a good number of people on here, over an extended period of time, being fed bullshit in order, it would seem, to attempt to sabotage the AQ deal. Plus ca change? The same people who have been attempting to sabotage them ever since. You don’t say?!!!!
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Post by darkbluegas on Feb 5, 2020 13:02:57 GMT
I've said before, I don't have any facts in relation to any club takeover talks but the complete lack of information I believe, speaks volumes. Even the recent proposed takeover of Newcastle FC by the Saudi financiers has been leaked. Even their wealth, legal clout and renowned desire for privacy couldn't prevent the information leaking. In all fairness, our takeover by the Al-Qadi's was leaked wasn't it? Their wealth, "Billionaires" supposedly by pretty much every media outlet, local and national. Then the subsequent embarrassing boasts by some Rovers fans, "Mind The Cash" and other such bollocks. I'd take that with a pinch of Salt. yup, strange isn't that our new takeover has managed to stay watertight!!!
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Post by darkbluegas on Feb 5, 2020 10:52:45 GMT
I think you’re missing my point. Anything could be happening, lansdown could be buying the club. The point is some supporters seem to be over confident in finding new owners and a new stadium when there’s been no evidence on that being the case. The same as it’s been for 50 years. Having that hope is absolutely fine however faint. The problem is that whilst these hopes linger the club in its present guise stagnates in an antiquated stadium. All these false dawns over stadiums has allowed owners to operate without being pressured by fans, as the new dawn is always just over the horizon. I’ve had some discussions with the club in the past over this issue. In particular at the time of the proposed Severnside development with Geoff Dunford. I felt then the club should be pursuing a more community based project. A smaller scale stadium that would allow for local investment but Geoff always felt that raising large capital sums was in fact easier, involving Global partners. That obviously failed for many reasons. Since that time it’s never felt that the fans have been properly engaged in any long term stadium project. My fear now is that some parties may seriously financially benefit from this malaise around the club. That benefit will only increase with time But who are these supporters you keep talking about? You keep mentioning that there is no FM deal, someone asks you 'how to you know that' and you end up accusing them of being the problem as to why we always get dragged along on a dream of hope. I would understand your point more if there were actually people on here who're constantly telling us that it's happening and that we should be excited, but I don't see where they are? Have another read of the transcript of the interview and then read the first few pages of the thread which generally set the tone for the next six months. There are now 318 pages of opinion based on no facts whatsoever. I would suggest that amounts to a distraction. The same can be said of the 24 years we've been at the Mem. From Tenants to owners in two short years due, in main, to the incompetence of Bristol Rugby Club. Then ten years with no improvement of the facilities other than a Clubhouse roof paid for by supporters. I can, though, understand this honeymoon period caused by owning our first home in seventy years. Then the first big plan, the redeveloped Mem. nearly four years wasted on an unsuccessful deal with an outside body. Then straight into the UWE fiasco another seven years down the drain, whilst the ground further fell into disrepair. A little break of a year or so and some attempts are made to tidy up the old place. Then out of the blue last August, we dust off the stadium roller coaster and here we go again. To set the whole process going all we need is an unsubstantiated comment in a pre match interview and no further facts for the ride to set off again. Just six months so far but I'm sure this ride has plenty of momentum left in it. Whilst us gasheads travel along this rollercoaster ride, as a reality tv host would put it, those looking for sporting entertainment in Bristol certainly aren't thinking of spending it at the top of Gloucester Road. You may have in fact noticed that between thirty and forty thousand people each fortnight are beginning to enjoy comfortable facilities elsewhere in the city. If I was new to the city with young kids and no allegiance where would I be heading. Whilst these are uncomfortable truths, they have to be faced if we're to flourish in the future or even have a future. I've said before, I don't have any facts in relation to any club takeover talks but the complete lack of information I believe, speaks volumes. Even the recent proposed takeover of Newcastle FC by the Saudi financiers has been leaked. Even their wealth, legal clout and renowned desire for privacy couldn't prevent the information leaking. Of course, I also have suspicions about any new owners motives but that is based on common sense. The Mem site value is only going up whilst our value plummets, it doesn't take much business acumen to realise where this may be leading. So in twenty four years we've put a tin roof on it. I believe that is, in main, due to the club and other outsiders being incapable of matching their desires to their bank balance. Nearly half the time at the Mem has been spent fantasising about new grounds and outside funded redevelopments. I think that has had a massive impact on our relative demise in relation to other local clubs. So, until I hear someone support their claims with a fact I will continue to hold my views on the matter.
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Post by darkbluegas on Feb 4, 2020 21:58:22 GMT
No offence but there in a nutshell is the attitude that has allowed numerous owners, some well meaning, some less so, to mug us gasheads off for decades. No, that would be the attitude of ‘OMG can’t wait for the new stadium to be built thanks guys’. Hugo neither confirmed or denied the rumours, just pointed out that you also don’t know anything. Out of interest, what are you doing/what have you done to not allow numerous owners to mug us gasheads off? I think you’re missing my point. Anything could be happening, lansdown could be buying the club. The point is some supporters seem to be over confident in finding new owners and a new stadium when there’s been no evidence on that being the case. The same as it’s been for 50 years. Having that hope is absolutely fine however faint. The problem is that whilst these hopes linger the club in its present guise stagnates in an antiquated stadium. All these false dawns over stadiums has allowed owners to operate without being pressured by fans, as the new dawn is always just over the horizon. I’ve had some discussions with the club in the past over this issue. In particular at the time of the proposed Severnside development with Geoff Dunford. I felt then the club should be pursuing a more community based project. A smaller scale stadium that would allow for local investment but Geoff always felt that raising large capital sums was in fact easier, involving Global partners. That obviously failed for many reasons. Since that time it’s never felt that the fans have been properly engaged in any long term stadium project. My fear now is that some parties may seriously financially benefit from this malaise around the club. That benefit will only increase with time
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Post by darkbluegas on Feb 4, 2020 20:40:43 GMT
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. No offence but there in a nutshell is the attitude that has allowed numerous owners, some well meaning, some less so, to mug us gasheads off for decades.
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Post by darkbluegas on Feb 4, 2020 19:44:09 GMT
Oh I see. I’ll have a look at the plans and the offer on the table. Do you have a link I can look at. Thanks in advance I'll see if I can dig the plans out. Might take a while, admittedly. While I'm doing that, can you post a link to prove beyond all reasonable doubt that there is no consortium or plan for the Fruit Market? Presumably that will be fairly easy, since you stated it as a fact. Cheers x Just checked Bristol City Council Planning Dept website, nothing there. www.bristol.gov.uk/planning-and-building-regulations/look-at-and-track-planning-applications
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Post by darkbluegas on Feb 4, 2020 18:09:55 GMT
This is exactly it. Some people believe that Ed Ware et al or some other investors are the second coming, or in our case the first coming. With no evidence whatsoever. So their stance is a belief based on blind faith. The other camp can prove beyond all reasonable doubt there is no plans for a new stadium in place and no offer on the table for the football club. This remains the case until the owners tell us differently. After all, now the ITK’ers have been flushed out it’s all we have No, it isn't exactly it. Nobody has proven beyond reasonable doubt that there is or isn't an offer or a new stadium. And you too seem to be confusing lack of evidence with proof of no plans. Oh I see. I’ll have a look at the plans and the offer on the table. Do you have a link I can look at. Thanks in advance
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Post by darkbluegas on Feb 4, 2020 18:03:39 GMT
Interesting that this is announced after two weeks of rumours that the Fruit Bowl is dead in the water along with the Unicorn Investors.
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