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Post by knowall on Oct 21, 2017 17:24:10 GMT
Won't that come out of the 10 million pound loan secured again the Mem being charged interest on? What happens when that runs out and we have no more assets? This keeps coming up. We know there is a £10M credit facility from the holding co, but we don't know what will happen when it's spent. I reckon there are 3 options: 1. It will be increased 2. It will be capitalised (i.e. debt converted to equity) 3. The Mem will be sold, the loan repaid and the owners will disappear into the sunset The charge on the Mem is irrelevant, the owners can do what they want with their assets. Securing the loan simply ensures they will rank ahead of other creditors if anything goes wrong. As far as I can see, nobody has ever confirmed or denied whether interest is actually being charged on the credit line. 6% has been quoted more than once so it has now become fact. However, someone recently suggested this was calculated from the last financials by a "clever accountant". Those accounts would have included interest charges of 18% on the MSP loan and unless they know the exact dates and balances involved, I doubt any credible accountant would even attempt a guess. good post |
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Post by Baxtinho on Oct 21, 2017 21:32:26 GMT
I can't tell if this thread is a joke or not.
It shouldn't have to be said that there's other jobs involved in running a football club than playing & coaching staff.
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Post by LJG on Oct 23, 2017 8:56:46 GMT
Always worth noting the world's largest taxi firm, Uber, owns no cars. The world's most popular media company, Facebook, creates no content. The world's most valuable retailer, Alibaba, carries no stock. And the world's largest accommodation provider, Airbnb, owns no property. And the world's best striker scores no goals. Keep up the good work, Nicholls. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2017 9:52:19 GMT
I really don't feel comfortable with the increasing loan balance to Dwaine Sports and really do think it's putting the future of the club at risk. It took years for us to own our own ground and from what I understand all the money put into the club is now secured against the Mem. If at some future day the Al Quad's do want out then they could just sell the ground and get their money back and would probably pocket a lot more than trying to sell the club and ground as a package. I'll certainly not feel comfortable until the loan is converted into shares which would be the best evidence of a long term commitment from the family. Past owners have been fans and whilst Wael might be, I cannot see the family being willing to write off the loan, which some say is approaching £10m, to facilitate the club's sale as a going concern when they could probably get more back by selling the ground for development.
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Post by Slide away on Oct 24, 2017 10:20:20 GMT
I really don't feel comfortable with the increasing loan balance to Dwaine Sports and really do think it's putting the future of the club at risk. It took years for us to own our own ground and from what I understand all the money put into the club is now secured against the Mem. If at some future day the Al Quad's do want out then they could just sell the ground and get their money back and would probably pocket a lot more than trying to sell the club and ground as a package. I'll certainly not feel comfortable until the loan is converted into shares which would be the best evidence of a long term commitment from the family. Past owners have been fans and whilst Wael might be, I cannot see the family being willing to write off the loan, which some say is approaching £10m, to facilitate the club's sale as a going concern when they could probably get more back by selling the ground for development.
Not at all a dig, just being inquisitive- you say "increasing loan balance to Dwaine Sports", how do you know that it is increasing? Also, how is this situation any different to the previous regime- the board loaning money to keep the club afloat? Did you feel as uneasy over the previous 10-15 years?
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Oct 24, 2017 10:33:34 GMT
I really don't feel comfortable with the increasing loan balance to Dwaine Sports and really do think it's putting the future of the club at risk. It took years for us to own our own ground and from what I understand all the money put into the club is now secured against the Mem. If at some future day the Al Quad's do want out then they could just sell the ground and get their money back and would probably pocket a lot more than trying to sell the club and ground as a package. I'll certainly not feel comfortable until the loan is converted into shares which would be the best evidence of a long term commitment from the family. Past owners have been fans and whilst Wael might be, I cannot see the family being willing to write off the loan, which some say is approaching £10m, to facilitate the club's sale as a going concern when they could probably get more back by selling the ground for development.
Not at all a dig, just being inquisitive- you say "increasing loan balance to Dwaine Sports", how do you know that it is increasing? Also, how is this situation any different to the previous regime- the board loaning money to keep the club afloat? Did you feel as uneasy over the previous 10-15 years?
That was going to be my reply. Nothing has really changed. |
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Post by Captain Jayho on Oct 24, 2017 10:34:56 GMT
I really don't feel comfortable with the increasing loan balance to Dwaine Sports and really do think it's putting the future of the club at risk. It took years for us to own our own ground and from what I understand all the money put into the club is now secured against the Mem. If at some future day the Al Quad's do want out then they could just sell the ground and get their money back and would probably pocket a lot more than trying to sell the club and ground as a package. I'll certainly not feel comfortable until the loan is converted into shares which would be the best evidence of a long term commitment from the family. Past owners have been fans and whilst Wael might be, I cannot see the family being willing to write off the loan, which some say is approaching £10m, to facilitate the club's sale as a going concern when they could probably get more back by selling the ground for development.
Not at all a dig, just being inquisitive- you say "increasing loan balance to Dwaine Sports", how do you know that it is increasing? Also, how is this situation any different to the previous regime- the board loaning money to keep the club afloat? Did you feel as uneasy over the previous 10-15 years?
Our esteemed leader Hamer is quoted as saying that our breakeven attendance figure is now way above our ground capacity - which has not been the case under prior regimes. Under these conditions it is surely all but impossible not to increase our debt levels to be significantly higher than anything we have seen before. The big question is with UWE dead in the water where and how does this gap between outgoings and income get bridged going forward? |
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Post by knowall on Oct 24, 2017 10:36:25 GMT
I really don't feel comfortable with the increasing loan balance to Dwaine Sports and really do think it's putting the future of the club at risk. It took years for us to own our own ground and from what I understand all the money put into the club is now secured against the Mem. If at some future day the Al Quad's do want out then they could just sell the ground and get their money back and would probably pocket a lot more than trying to sell the club and ground as a package. I'll certainly not feel comfortable until the loan is converted into shares which would be the best evidence of a long term commitment from the family. Past owners have been fans and whilst Wael might be, I cannot see the family being willing to write off the loan, which some say is approaching £10m, to facilitate the club's sale as a going concern when they could probably get more back by selling the ground for development. Whilst I understand your concerns, nothing has really changed from the position under NH & Co. It could be said the Company is better protected (in some ways from external creditors) but the important point is the overall negative debit which is slightly higher than under NH. Are you really more concerned about the position now than eighteen months ago? DS already own 92% of the shareholding and your suggestion would only devalue the SC holding. Instead of pondering what 'might be', look at it from the DS viewpoint and you might consider you would be doing precisely what they are doing were you to be in their shoes. |
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Post by daniel300380 on Oct 24, 2017 10:45:30 GMT
I really don't feel comfortable with the increasing loan balance to Dwaine Sports and really do think it's putting the future of the club at risk. It took years for us to own our own ground and from what I understand all the money put into the club is now secured against the Mem. If at some future day the Al Quad's do want out then they could just sell the ground and get their money back and would probably pocket a lot more than trying to sell the club and ground as a package. I'll certainly not feel comfortable until the loan is converted into shares which would be the best evidence of a long term commitment from the family. Past owners have been fans and whilst Wael might be, I cannot see the family being willing to write off the loan, which some say is approaching £10m, to facilitate the club's sale as a going concern when they could probably get more back by selling the ground for development. As others have said, nothing has changed and it's normal practice. Even Manchester United were bought from loans, secured against the clubs assets, placing the club in debt, but that's just the way business people do things. They are over £500 million in debt still, secured against assets. It's normal practice, the majority of clubs will do it just incase. If they wanted to sell the club, would anyone want it, if it had no ground? |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2017 11:23:19 GMT
Not at all a dig, just being inquisitive- you say "increasing loan balance to Dwaine Sports", how do you know that it is increasing? Also, how is this situation any different to the previous regime- the board loaning money to keep the club afloat? Did you feel as uneasy over the previous 10-15 years?
That was going to be my reply. Nothing has really changed. Except the size of the loan/debt. |
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Post by xplosivgas on Oct 24, 2017 12:11:24 GMT
It's puzzling why a banking family would even want to buy football club when the vast majority are like money black holes. If Wael had a vast personal fortune and the club was his hobby / play thing, I'd get it. But needing daddy and brother's agreement on every big decision, I just don't see much fun in that for him ..
I can't see how this is going to end well for the club: new owners don't have enough money to build a required new ground + realistically we're in too much debt for anyone else to want to take over the reigns (unless the owners are willing to write-off the loan, but why would they?).
Still, I suppose there's no point in worrying about something over which we have no control.
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Post by faggotygas on Oct 24, 2017 12:11:34 GMT
I really don't feel comfortable with the increasing loan balance to Dwaine Sports and really do think it's putting the future of the club at risk. It took years for us to own our own ground and from what I understand all the money put into the club is now secured against the Mem. If at some future day the Al Quad's do want out then they could just sell the ground and get their money back and would probably pocket a lot more than trying to sell the club and ground as a package. I'll certainly not feel comfortable until the loan is converted into shares which would be the best evidence of a long term commitment from the family. Past owners have been fans and whilst Wael might be, I cannot see the family being willing to write off the loan, which some say is approaching £10m, to facilitate the club's sale as a going concern when they could probably get more back by selling the ground for development. Whilst I understand your concerns, nothing has really changed from the position under NH & Co. It could be said the Company is better protected (in some ways from external creditors) but the important point is the overall negative debit which is slightly higher than under NH. Are you really more concerned about the position now than eighteen months ago? DS already own 92% of the shareholding and your suggestion would only devalue the SC holding. Instead of pondering what 'might be', look at it from the DS viewpoint and you might consider you would be doing precisely what they are doing were you to be in their shoes. There are clear changes. The actual amount of credit that the owners are willing to forward the club has had a finite limit put on it - £10m. We don't know what will happen when this is reached, but quoting an actual amountdefineatly seems more finite.
We are losing more money each year than under Higgs.
The Company (bristol Rovers 1883) isn't more protected, Dwayne Sports is.
The Company is paying more interest.
On top of all this, even if we are in a better position that under Higgs (which I think we might be), that doesn't mean we should just ignore the finances. It could just mean that we are slowly dieing, rather than quickly - I just don't know.
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Post by peterparker on Oct 24, 2017 12:18:11 GMT
It's puzzling why a banking family would even want to buy football club when the vast majority are like money black holes. If Wael had a vast personal fortune and the club was his hobby / play thing, I'd get it. But needing daddy and brother's agreement on every big decision, I just don't see much fun in that for him .. I can't see how this is going to end well for the club: new owners don't have enough money to build a required new ground + realistically we're in too much debt for anyone else to want to take over the reigns (unless the owners are willing to write-off the loan, but why would they?). Still, I suppose there's no point in worrying about something over which we have no control. How many owners of other clubs have actually paid for new grounds or stands to be built without return?
Liverpool, Arsenal, Spurs etc all the money is/was borrowed and it is debt to be serviced.
The Amex was £90m wasn't it. I doubt someone just stumped that sort of money up
Why do people think/expect someone to just pull £50m out of their pocket and not expect it back?
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Post by xplosivgas on Oct 24, 2017 12:27:42 GMT
It's puzzling why a banking family would even want to buy football club when the vast majority are like money black holes. If Wael had a vast personal fortune and the club was his hobby / play thing, I'd get it. But needing daddy and brother's agreement on every big decision, I just don't see much fun in that for him .. I can't see how this is going to end well for the club: new owners don't have enough money to build a required new ground + realistically we're in too much debt for anyone else to want to take over the reigns (unless the owners are willing to write-off the loan, but why would they?). Still, I suppose there's no point in worrying about something over which we have no control. How many owners of other clubs have actually paid for new grounds or stands to be built without return?
Liverpool, Arsenal, Spurs etc all the money is/was borrowed and it is debt to be serviced.
The Amex was £90m wasn't it. I doubt someone just stumped that sort of money up
Why do people think/expect someone to just pull £50m out of their pocket and not expect it back?
I'm not sure. But I'm certain sure most of the clubs you mention have wealthy investors and probably some cash in the bank to start the ball rolling. If you were a bank manager and Wael tapped on your office door asking for £40 mill for a new stadium, knowing his club is £10mill in debt with under capacity crowds each home game, would you hand over the money? |
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Post by baggins on Oct 24, 2017 12:28:09 GMT
It's puzzling why a banking family would even want to buy football club when the vast majority are like money black holes. If Wael had a vast personal fortune and the club was his hobby / play thing, I'd get it. But needing daddy and brother's agreement on every big decision, I just don't see much fun in that for him .. I can't see how this is going to end well for the club: new owners don't have enough money to build a required new ground + realistically we're in too much debt for anyone else to want to take over the reigns (unless the owners are willing to write-off the loan, but why would they?). Still, I suppose there's no point in worrying about something over which we have no control. I've not read one fact that suggests Wael needs permission from his Father or his Brother to spend. And yes, this is his ambition to own a Football Club and yes I'm sure he went into this knowing Football Clubs suck up money, yes I'm sure he had many conversations with other club owners as to what's expected of him, he's not an idiot. |
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Post by baggins on Oct 24, 2017 12:29:33 GMT
How many owners of other clubs have actually paid for new grounds or stands to be built without return?
Liverpool, Arsenal, Spurs etc all the money is/was borrowed and it is debt to be serviced.
The Amex was £90m wasn't it. I doubt someone just stumped that sort of money up
Why do people think/expect someone to just pull £50m out of their pocket and not expect it back?
I'm not sure. But I'm certain sure most of the clubs you mention have wealthy investors and probably some cash in the bank to start the ball rolling. If you were a bank manager and Wael tapped on your office door asking for £40 mill for a new stadium, knowing his club is £10mill in debt with under capacity crowds each home game, would you hand over the money? Depends if you had money invested in the Bank his family owns. |
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Post by Henbury Gas on Oct 24, 2017 12:33:05 GMT
It's puzzling why a banking family would even want to buy football club when the vast majority are like money black holes. If Wael had a vast personal fortune and the club was his hobby / play thing, I'd get it. But needing daddy and brother's agreement on every big decision, I just don't see much fun in that for him .. I can't see how this is going to end well for the club: new owners don't have enough money to build a required new ground + realistically we're in too much debt for anyone else to want to take over the reigns (unless the owners are willing to write-off the loan, but why would they?). Still, I suppose there's no point in worrying about something over which we have no control. I've not read one fact that suggests Wael needs permission from his Father or his Brother to spend. And yes, this is his ambition to own a Football Club and yes I'm sure he went into this knowing Football Clubs suck up money, yes I'm sure he had many conversations with other club owners as to what's expected of him, he's not an idiot. and one of his mates owns a big club in London so plenty of history on running a football club |
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Post by xplosivgas on Oct 24, 2017 12:33:27 GMT
I'm not sure. But I'm certain sure most of the clubs you mention have wealthy investors and probably some cash in the bank to start the ball rolling. If you were a bank manager and Wael tapped on your office door asking for £40 mill for a new stadium, knowing his club is £10mill in debt with under capacity crowds each home game, would you hand over the money? Depends if you had money invested in the Bank his family owns. Pretty sure his family owns less than 50% in the bank, and regardless are answerable to all of its shareholders. |
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Post by baggins on Oct 24, 2017 12:38:50 GMT
Depends if you had money invested in the Bank his family owns. Pretty sure his family owns less than 50% in the bank, and regardless are answerable to all of its shareholders. I thought they bought out all of Jordanian HSBC holdings? Either way, the Guy has a penny or 2 and would have no problem whatsoever raising loans to suits his and our needs. |
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Post by baggins on Oct 24, 2017 12:39:25 GMT
I've not read one fact that suggests Wael needs permission from his Father or his Brother to spend. And yes, this is his ambition to own a Football Club and yes I'm sure he went into this knowing Football Clubs suck up money, yes I'm sure he had many conversations with other club owners as to what's expected of him, he's not an idiot. and one of his mates owns a big club in London so plenty of history on running a football club Brentford? |
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