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Post by LJG on Nov 4, 2017 20:45:26 GMT
So you've now made another statement with nothing to back it up. How do you know they didn't want to fund it? Did the Al Qadis tell you themselves? BSS told him whether he was being truthful or had his own agenda is anybody's guess And how the f**k would BSS know one way or the other? Think about it.
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Post by oldmarket65 on Nov 4, 2017 21:20:35 GMT
I am not sure whether anything in this thread is true or not. So I have no opinion either way. However: I do know we have had around 5 failed projects since 1997 at the MEM and it must be costing our club millions. So I propose what I have been saying for years now. We drop anymore BIG plans and look to fund one community stand for families and children. I understand we have money built up via the football trust and other means for one section of the ground. I admit it don't address the overall desire to have a brand new stadium . But what is the alternative ?. A ground not touched for nearly 20 years falling apart. I much rather have a 2-3 000 seater brand new stand at the south stand end and re-evaluate were we are in 3 years time. It might be small scale but it will feel a boost to fans and even better for families in the modern era. I am fed up with pipedreams ...
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Post by BishopstonBRFC on Nov 5, 2017 0:02:52 GMT
If the UWE deal is as bad as we are led to believe why would anyone else touch it? Who are you led to believe this by? I doubt the club would have pulled out if it was a good deal for them.
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Post by Feeling The Blues on Nov 5, 2017 1:42:25 GMT
Who are you led to believe this by? I doubt the club would have pulled out if it was a good deal for them. The club? WHO are the club?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2017 7:55:04 GMT
I am not sure whether anything in this thread is true or not. So I have no opinion either way. However: I do know we have had around 5 failed projects since 1997 at the MEM and it must be costing our club millions. So I propose what I have been saying for years now. We drop anymore BIG plans and look to fund one community stand for families and children. I understand we have money built up via the football trust and other means for one section of the ground. I admit it don't address the overall desire to have a brand new stadium . But what is the alternative ?. A ground not touched for nearly 20 years falling apart. I much rather have a 2-3 000 seater brand new stand at the south stand end and re-evaluate were we are in 3 years time. It might be small scale but it will feel a boost to fans and even better for families in the modern era. I am fed up with pipedreams ... Understand your sentiments - but that would mean looking for new owners. Maybe the Shrewsbury type model is what we should now be looking at - not that I necessarily agree with that.
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Post by gasincider on Nov 5, 2017 9:05:21 GMT
So you've now made another statement with nothing to back it up. How do you know they didn't want to fund it? Did the Al Qadis tell you themselves? The simple answer is that investment bankers don't invest their own money, they invest other people's. That is why they call them investment bankers. Its obvious that they did due due diligence on the club but just accepted that UWE was a done deal. Then they found out that it wasn't, but by then had bought into the deal. To keep it simple, they have initial planning approval for the training ground, so could begin the work up there. Has it happened? No. Why? They don't have the funding for it. Hani and Co have pulled the plug.
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Post by yategas78 on Nov 5, 2017 9:27:00 GMT
The simple answer is that investment bankers don't invest their own money, they invest other people's. That is why they call them investment bankers. Its obvious that they did due due diligence on the club but just accepted that UWE was a done deal. Then they found out that it wasn't, but by then had bought into the deal. To keep it simple, they have initial planning approval for the training ground, so could begin the work up there. Has it happened? No. Why? They don't have the funding for it. Hani and Co have pulled the plug. If this is true I can see the club being sold on within a year as there would be no point in the AQs hanging around why would they?
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Post by LJG on Nov 5, 2017 10:11:58 GMT
Have you ever seen one of those info-mercials? Where all the questions and answers are pre-prepared?
"But Mark, won't the plug cable get tangled up during use"?
"Haha No, Denise the Sucker 2000 is cordless so there's no need to worry about frustrating tangled wires".
That's what I feel like I'm reading most of these threads. Lots of people teeing other posters up to give their pre-prepared spiel.
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Post by BishopstonBRFC on Nov 5, 2017 10:30:20 GMT
I doubt the club would have pulled out if it was a good deal for them. The club? WHO are the club? OK the board. Are we really doing this?
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Post by Feeling The Blues on Nov 5, 2017 10:50:30 GMT
The club? WHO are the club? OK the board. Are we really doing this? Yes and I'm not trying to be pedantic just point out that you are being 'led to believe' UWE is not viable by the very people who want you to believe it's not viable rather than they can't or don't want to invest the necessary capital. I don't understand why so many fans think that because the ALQs say something it must be true and not be questioned. Such a situation has never happened with any previous owners!
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Post by Antonio Fargas on Nov 5, 2017 11:01:32 GMT
OK the board. Are we really doing this? Yes and I'm not trying to be pedantic just point out that you are being 'led to believe' UWE is not viable by the very people who want you to believe it's not viable rather than they can't or don't want to invest the necessary capital. I don't understand why so many fans think that because the ALQs say something it must be true and not be questioned. Such a situation has never happened with any previous owners! The very people who make money out of investments, want you to believe that they didn't make an investment because it wasn't a good investment? Blimey. The mind boggles. Are you genuinely trying to say that they bought the club in order to throw away about a million quid a year on it, while making excuses why they're not investing money in it, to hide the fact they're actually content to lose a million quid a year, coz they don't want to invest in anything that might actually make money in the future? Why would they do that? I don't think it's true because they say it is. I think it's true coz the alternative would make them idiots.
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Post by BishopstonBRFC on Nov 5, 2017 11:12:21 GMT
OK the board. Are we really doing this? Yes and I'm not trying to be pedantic just point out that you are being 'led to believe' UWE is not viable by the very people who want you to believe it's not viable rather than they can't or don't want to invest the necessary capital. I don't understand why so many fans think that because the ALQs say something it must be true and not be questioned. Such a situation has never happened with any previous owners! For me there is still an element of trust there as the previous board were prepared to risk the entire club with the Wonga loan in a futile battle with Sainsbury's where as it would appear the new board pulled out of the UWE deal as it could risk the future of the club i.e. not owning the thing. Problem is there is so much being banded around now on here and even more so on the FB page without a shred of evidence that it makes people such as me side with the owners rather than the accusers. Like I said before I will happily eat humble pie if it turns out we are being shafted but until then I'm prepared to give the new owners the benefit of the doubt.
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Post by Parrot on Nov 5, 2017 11:19:06 GMT
Yes and I'm not trying to be pedantic just point out that you are being 'led to believe' UWE is not viable by the very people who want you to believe it's not viable rather than they can't or don't want to invest the necessary capital. I don't understand why so many fans think that because the ALQs say something it must be true and not be questioned. Such a situation has never happened with any previous owners! For me there is still an element of trust there as the previous board were prepared to risk the entire club with the Wonga loan in a futile battle with Sainsbury's where as it would appear the new board pulled out of the UWE deal as it could risk the future of the club i.e. not owning the thing. Problem is there is so much being banded around now on here and even more so on the FB page without a shred of evidence that it makes people such as me side with the owners rather than the accusers. Like I said before I will happily eat humble pie if it turns out we are being shafted but until then I'm prepared to give the new owners the benefit of the doubt. ^ This. As the old saying goes ---- Be careful what you wish for
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Post by yategas78 on Nov 5, 2017 11:21:42 GMT
They (the owners) have gone very quiet again an update even if it just to reassure us things are actually happening in the background would be good
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Post by countygroundhotel on Nov 5, 2017 11:27:58 GMT
When the 2nd seven bridge was built it was built with money from a French investor. We paid back the investor over 20+ years from Tolls etc. Next Year the Bridge belongs to the Govt. Did we the Govt put any money into the project at the start ? The new power station being built is being paid for by French and Chinese Money.... do i need to spell it out for you Our New Stadium will be paid for by an investment by other parties and we will paid them back over ?? years..... HG is correct in what he says. Emirates airlines effectively paid for Arsenals new ground. Walkers did the same for Leicester. It wasn't about "naming rights". Money went in the opposite direction to help fund the elephant in the first instance. Clearly the UWE deal isn't a good enough partner for investment in the long term. It would cost the club more. The new board has never said the mem site is unfeasable. Just the existing ground on it. The site footprint is a good plot to rebuild on. But it will take some investment and planning to do so. Dam hell what a slim grasp of facts you and HG have. The second Severn bridge was completely risk free, to the private developers or the government if they had built it. It was just politically easier for a private organisation to charge tolls. The new nuclear power station will be paid for by the government, aka you and me, through guaranteed electric contracts far above market rates. Emirates have sponsored Arsenal's ground but the funding came from a variety of sources the redevelopment of Highbury, housing units on the new development and loans which were repaid from the riches of the Premier league TV deals. As to any of that applying to Bristol Rovers then the pair of you are barking mad.
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Post by countygroundhotel on Nov 5, 2017 11:31:49 GMT
I understand this Henbury, but when I first went for a mortgage, the bank told me to clear my car loan & secure a big pay rise & then they would consider it. DS are looking for £50-60m investment for a 3rd Div Football team in lots of debt already. It would be interesting to see what our attendance break even figure will be & for how many years to service that debt. Not saying it's the case but what if it's their own bank providing the investment? They can control it all then including the rate of return etc They don't own the Dam but bank, how many times is this 'fact' peddled by idiots? They own a minority stake (30%?) and the others that own the 70% aren't going to allow them to use it as their personal piggy bank.
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Post by countygroundhotel on Nov 5, 2017 11:33:45 GMT
The club? WHO are the club? OK the board. Are we really doing this? No Dwane Sports pulled out of the UWE
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Post by countygroundhotel on Nov 5, 2017 11:35:19 GMT
Yes and I'm not trying to be pedantic just point out that you are being 'led to believe' UWE is not viable by the very people who want you to believe it's not viable rather than they can't or don't want to invest the necessary capital. I don't understand why so many fans think that because the ALQs say something it must be true and not be questioned. Such a situation has never happened with any previous owners! For me there is still an element of trust there as the previous board were prepared to risk the entire club with the Wonga loan in a futile battle with Sainsbury's where as it would appear the new board pulled out of the UWE deal as it could risk the future of the club i.e. not owning the thing. Problem is there is so much being banded around now on here and even more so on the FB page without a shred of evidence that it makes people such as me side with the owners rather than the accusers. Like I said before I will happily eat humble pie if it turns out we are being shafted but until then I'm prepared to give the new owners the benefit of the doubt. It's very simple for the board to quash these rumours. Why haven't they?
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Post by Feeling The Blues on Nov 5, 2017 11:40:11 GMT
Yes and I'm not trying to be pedantic just point out that you are being 'led to believe' UWE is not viable by the very people who want you to believe it's not viable rather than they can't or don't want to invest the necessary capital. I don't understand why so many fans think that because the ALQs say something it must be true and not be questioned. Such a situation has never happened with any previous owners! The very people who make money out of investments, want you to believe that they didn't make an investment because it wasn't a good investment? Blimey. The mind boggles. Are you genuinely trying to say that they bought the club in order to throw away about a million quid a year on it, while making excuses why they're not investing money in it, to hide the fact they're actually content to lose a million quid a year, coz they don't want to invest in anything that might actually make money in the future? Why would they do that? I don't think it's true because they say it is. I think it's true coz the alternative would make them idiots. Yes it could make them idiots just like many accused Nick Higgs of being. But you hit on a good point in that of course they don’t want to be perceived as making a bad investment. They would obviously want the world to think that it’s not for that reason that UWE is binned. It suits their interests for everyone to believe that UWE are greedy, inflexible or difficult. However Higgs seemed to have no difficulty progressing with them. Does that mean he’s a bumpkin idiot who was being taken for a ride and was on course to destroy the club? UWE might not be viable (for them) but if they had done proper due diligence when buying their investment they would have known that before buying it wouldn’t they. On the other hand they might have changed their minds, had buyers regret and decided not to invest more because they already regret what’s been invested so far. So given that these are professional people and you’d think would never invest in anything before doing thorough due diligence especially on the viability of the major project that the “investment” was involved in, especially on the one thing that would cause the “investment” to not realise it’s so say potential. The reasons they’ve given for scrapping that project don’t make sense either do they? Couple this also with the lack of action on the training ground build, or the lack of any real investment in the playing squad, or lack of any detail for stadium plan B or lack of any communication with their loyal fan base when it is most needed because of the above and it looks suspiciously like they don’t want to or can’t invest what’s necessary to take their “investment’ forwards. If this was an Agatha Christie novel called “Death of the UWE” Poirot would be closing in on the real villains right now, but where will he find them? They’ve disappeared!
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Post by Antonio Fargas on Nov 5, 2017 11:55:03 GMT
The very people who make money out of investments, want you to believe that they didn't make an investment because it wasn't a good investment? Blimey. The mind boggles. Are you genuinely trying to say that they bought the club in order to throw away about a million quid a year on it, while making excuses why they're not investing money in it, to hide the fact they're actually content to lose a million quid a year, coz they don't want to invest in anything that might actually make money in the future? Why would they do that? I don't think it's true because they say it is. I think it's true coz the alternative would make them idiots. Yes it could make them idiots just like many accused Nick Higgs of being. But you hit on a good point in that of course they don’t want to be perceived as making a bad investment. They would obviously want the world to think that it’s not for that reason that UWE is binned. It suits their interests for everyone to believe that UWE are greedy, inflexible or difficult. However Higgs seemed to have no difficulty progressing with them. Does that mean he’s a bumpkin idiot who was being taken for a ride and was on course to destroy the club? UWE might not be viable (for them) but if they had done proper due diligence when buying their investment they would have known that before buying it wouldn’t they. On the other hand they might have changed their minds, had buyers regret and decided not to invest more because they already regret what’s been invested so far. So given that these are professional people and you’d think would never invest in anything before doing thorough due diligence especially on the viability of the major project that the “investment” was involved in, especially on the one thing that would cause the “investment” to not realise it’s so say potential. The reasons they’ve given for scrapping that project don’t make sense either do they? Couple this also with the lack of action on the training ground build, or the lack of any real investment in the playing squad, or lack of any detail for stadium plan B or lack of any communication with their loyal fan base when it is most needed because of the above and it looks suspiciously like they don’t want to or can’t invest what’s necessary to take their “investment’ forwards. If this was an Agatha Christie novel called “Death of the UWE” Poirot would be closing in on the real villains right now, but where will he find them? They’ve disappeared! Well, I don't really think that there is only that explanation. It seems perfectly reasonable to me that they invested in the club knowing that they could renegotiate with UWE. UWE thought we were desperate for the stadium (which to be fair, we are) and heading for a deadline (Jan 2018 iirc) and so deliberately dragged their feet on renegotiations, thinking we'd ultimately have no choice but to go for it. Dwane realised we were getting the run-around and that this deal would not be good enough for their long term investment* and reluctantly decided to pull out, surprising UWE. This is entirely consistent with events that we know. It's entirely consistent with what both sides have said (give and take the usual business bullshit). It's entirely consistent with the reasonable aims of both sides. I don't understand why we need to come up with mad plots or conspiracy theories or paint people badly, or stupidly, when this perfectly reasonable chain of motives and actions accounts for what actually seems to have happened. *See Hani's Youtube vid on long term investing in (effectively) warzones. However sh**e the Mem is, it's not close to war-torn Syria.
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