|
|
Post by Double O Severn on Nov 24, 2017 11:50:19 GMT
This is my first post. I am a long-term reader of the forum going back to the old “official forum” days but I have never posted.
I have become increasing bewildered by the lack of intelligent analysis of what is going wrong on the pitch. It appears players are blamed regardless of fault. Blame the innocent and praise the guilty. There are exceptions, some posters clearly understand football. But some people are watching a different game to me. I have registered to try to bring some technical analysis and understanding to this forum.
I have worked as an analyst, preparing videos and doing the run-through with the team – trying to understand what went wrong and what needs to be improved. As and when I have the time I will try to do this on our goals. Starting with the three against Wimbledon.
For me everything stems from our midfield. Our midfield were woeful defensively on Saturday. They were disorganised, didn’t work as a unit and at times lazy (the first two goals are perfect examples). As the game progressed they hid, not showing for the ball and forcing the back 4 to go long. Our centre backs were OK. They were far from perfect but, bizarrely, the bulk of the criticism is falling on the two Toms. In my view the level of criticism is unjustified. It was what happened in front of them that was the real problem.
How to sort it? I would play a defensive mid-fielder (4-1-3-2) and tell him his job is to fill the gap between the defence and the midfield. Play it simple, work your nuts off and protect that back four. If he breaks forward, as inevitably gaps will open, one of the three in front of him MUST fill in. We don’t have wingers so forget width – Brown and Leadbitter can provide that.
For me, the choice for the holding midfielder is between Partington and Lockyer. Lockyer is our best defender by far (contrary to popular myth) so I would go for Partington. But most importantly I would work all week on getting them organised and understanding their roles and responsibilities. I just don’t think this is the case at the moment. All of my defensive sessions would include the midfield as that is what is really needed.
It’s time to make us hard to beat. Simple as that. Nil-nil Saturday would be awesome. It ain’t rocket science. But it does need a tactical change. Come on DC, sort it out.
The good news is that it is about how we set up and get organised. We have the same players, they were good enough last year, they are good enough this year, we just aren’t set up right.
|
|
|
|
Post by Baxtinho on Nov 24, 2017 12:14:34 GMT
While I agree that some midfield solidity would be a plus, we'd still end up with the problem of having narrow centre midfielders ahead of a dedicated DM. Then that asks a question about what to do with Bill when he's fit enough to start.
Play our (only) four midfielders last week allowed Wimbledon too much space and time to pick their way through, as you say, typified by their first two goals.
Looking forward to a good natured argument with you in the future. I liked that early dig about some of the people on here "watching a different game" to you, that'll go down well with some of the wankers.
|
|
|
|
Post by abbeygas on Nov 24, 2017 12:16:19 GMT
I agree but I don't think DC legislated for the huge dip in OC's form this season. What is more disappointing is the lack of cover in the DM position as it is clear to me this is where our biggest problem lies. I'm not convinced Parts is the answer but surely he is worth a go.
Spot on about TL by the way, I despair at some of the criticism that has come his way this season.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2017 12:32:15 GMT
If the op does analysis etc he would know that this season lots of goals have come from any old ball lobbed into our penalty area is likely to produce a goal.
Our percentage of conceding goals because the centre-halves have failed to do there job and attack the ball to clear danger is way too high imo.
The 3rd wimbledon goal from a keepers drop kick sums up our season so far for me,neither of the toms took charge and headed the ball away from a simple high punt.
Watch the pressure ellis is under or rory from opposing centre backs on high balls as an example of what centre-backs are supposed to do.
|
|
|
|
Post by faggotygas on Nov 24, 2017 13:42:45 GMT
This is my first post. I am a long-term reader of the forum going back to the old “official forum” days but I have never posted. I have become increasing bewildered by the lack of intelligent analysis of what is going wrong on the pitch. It appears players are blamed regardless of fault. Blame the innocent and praise the guilty. There are exceptions, some posters clearly understand football. But some people are watching a different game to me. I have registered to try to bring some technical analysis and understanding to this forum. I have worked as an analyst, preparing videos and doing the run-through with the team – trying to understand what went wrong and what needs to be improved. As and when I have the time I will try to do this on our goals. Starting with the three against Wimbledon. For me everything stems from our midfield. Our midfield were woeful defensively on Saturday. They were disorganised, didn’t work as a unit and at times lazy (the first two goals are perfect examples). As the game progressed they hid, not showing for the ball and forcing the back 4 to go long. Our centre backs were OK. They were far from perfect but, bizarrely, the bulk of the criticism is falling on the two Toms. In my view the level of criticism is unjustified. It was what happened in front of them that was the real problem. How to sort it? I would play a defensive mid-fielder (4-1-3-2) and tell him his job is to fill the gap between the defence and the midfield. Play it simple, work your nuts off and protect that back four. If he breaks forward, as inevitably gaps will open, one of the three in front of him MUST fill in. We don’t have wingers so forget width – Brown and Leadbitter can provide that. For me, the choice for the holding midfielder is between Partington and Lockyer. Lockyer is our best defender by far (contrary to popular myth) so I would go for Partington. But most importantly I would work all week on getting them organised and understanding their roles and responsibilities. I just don’t think this is the case at the moment. All of my defensive sessions would include the midfield as that is what is really needed. It’s time to make us hard to beat. Simple as that. Nil-nil Saturday would be awesome. It ain’t rocket science. But it does need a tactical change. Come on DC, sort it out. The good news is that it is about how we set up and get organised. We have the same players, they were good enough last year, they are good enough this year, we just aren’t set up right. Exactly how I saw it, it's the porous midfield that's been letting us down. Not showing for the ball in posession, disorganised when not in posession.
I would try a formation that's only slightly different to your proposal - 3-5-2. This would mean a defender would be available to move into midfield when needed to eliminate any gaps, and would the central midfield 2 would be able to squeeze.
I think we have the wing backs to make the formation work. Would take some practice though, as covering is vital in that formation.
|
|
|
|
Post by faggotygas on Nov 24, 2017 13:44:27 GMT
If the op does analysis etc he would know that this season lots of goals have come from any old ball lobbed into our penalty area is likely to produce a goal. Our percentage of conceding goals because the centre-halves have failed to do there job and attack the ball to clear danger is way too high imo. The 3rd wimbledon goal from a keepers drop kick sums up our season so far for me,neither of the toms took charge and headed the ball away from a simple high punt. Watch the pressure ellis is under or rory from opposing centre backs on high balls as an example of what centre-backs are supposed to do. Which is why you want an extra defensive midfielder or central defender in there as a spare man to attack the ball, while the other 2 central defenders concentrate on man marking the strikers. |
|
|
|
Post by Gas Go Marching In on Nov 24, 2017 13:52:12 GMT
For me Ollie Clarke has been as bad as anyone this season. We have a lack of defensive midfielders and a lack of options in midfield.
|
|
|
|
Post by markczgas on Nov 24, 2017 13:53:40 GMT
This is my first post. I am a long-term reader of the forum going back to the old “official forum” days but I have never posted. I have become increasing bewildered by the lack of intelligent analysis of what is going wrong on the pitch. It appears players are blamed regardless of fault. Blame the innocent and praise the guilty. There are exceptions, some posters clearly understand football. But some people are watching a different game to me. I have registered to try to bring some technical analysis and understanding to this forum. I have worked as an analyst, preparing videos and doing the run-through with the team – trying to understand what went wrong and what needs to be improved. As and when I have the time I will try to do this on our goals. Starting with the three against Wimbledon. For me everything stems from our midfield. Our midfield were woeful defensively on Saturday. They were disorganised, didn’t work as a unit and at times lazy (the first two goals are perfect examples). As the game progressed they hid, not showing for the ball and forcing the back 4 to go long. Our centre backs were OK. They were far from perfect but, bizarrely, the bulk of the criticism is falling on the two Toms. In my view the level of criticism is unjustified. It was what happened in front of them that was the real problem. How to sort it? I would play a defensive mid-fielder (4-1-3-2) and tell him his job is to fill the gap between the defence and the midfield. Play it simple, work your nuts off and protect that back four. If he breaks forward, as inevitably gaps will open, one of the three in front of him MUST fill in. We don’t have wingers so forget width – Brown and Leadbitter can provide that. For me, the choice for the holding midfielder is between Partington and Lockyer. Lockyer is our best defender by far (contrary to popular myth) so I would go for Partington. But most importantly I would work all week on getting them organised and understanding their roles and responsibilities. I just don’t think this is the case at the moment. All of my defensive sessions would include the midfield as that is what is really needed. It’s time to make us hard to beat. Simple as that. Nil-nil Saturday would be awesome. It ain’t rocket science. But it does need a tactical change. Come on DC, sort it out. The good news is that it is about how we set up and get organised. We have the same players, they were good enough last year, they are good enough this year, we just aren’t set up right. Welcome Severn !! This is what they did against Scunny. For home games they rightly went more attacking. the problem was the team were too dis-jointed and contrary to what your saying defenders also cocked up - how can you not criticise Leads, Locks and Broadbent for careless defending for first goal and Broadbent and Locks for 3rd goal for lack of concentration/communication when neither tried to meet the ball on the full ?? Im sure they have another go at your suggestion for Blackburn but can the team eradicate the mistakes ? Also trying to get a goal would be useful. UTG ! |
|
|
|
Post by Double O Severn on Nov 24, 2017 14:11:15 GMT
I’m not saying for one second that Leads, Lockyer, Broadbent and Brown are not at fault. Far from it.
What I am saying is that the biggest issue is the defensive organisation of the midfield. I will try to post my analysis of the goals. Struggling to include photos at the moment.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2017 14:21:06 GMT
Agree with a fair bit of the post.
I get frustrated hearing some of the comments from the terraces. The defenders get criticised for going long but take a look at which midfielders and strikers are genuinely trying to get into a position to receive the ball. When lacking in confidence and form it is easy to shield yourself from the ball by making sure there is a member of opposition between you and your teammate. Players need to brave and back themselves.
There's one particular numpty on the East Terrace who constantly shouts "get rid" when one of our defenders has the ball at his feet. When the ball then gets hit long he sarcastically shouts "whoosh"!!
While our centre backs haven't covered themselves in glory this season there has been a lack of cover in front of them and insufficient tracking back when the opposition break. There are good attackers in this league, most sides seem to have a couple at least. It would help the defence if they are able to concentrate on picking up their own men without worrying about unmarked ones left by the midfield.
|
|
|
|
Post by Midsomer Murderer on Nov 24, 2017 14:43:49 GMT
Good post, better than most written by those who've been on here for ages
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2017 15:54:06 GMT
If the op does analysis etc he would know that this season lots of goals have come from any old ball lobbed into our penalty area is likely to produce a goal. Our percentage of conceding goals because the centre-halves have failed to do there job and attack the ball to clear danger is way too high imo. The 3rd wimbledon goal from a keepers drop kick sums up our season so far for me,neither of the toms took charge and headed the ball away from a simple high punt. Watch the pressure ellis is under or rory from opposing centre backs on high balls as an example of what centre-backs are supposed to do. Which is why you want an extra defensive midfielder or central defender in there as a spare man to attack the ball, while the other 2 central defenders concentrate on man marking the strikers. Its a team game so im not saying its just the centre-halves causing our problems but all teams at all levels will be able to play hopeful balls into your penalty area and the centre-halves role is to deal with a very high percentage of them and ours havnt. We bring 11 back at corners but have conceded more than an average amount of goals from them. Lockyer,sweeney,broadbent,burn and partington need to start winning their individual battles with their opposite number more often than has been the case for us to stop conceding loads of goals imo. |
|
|
|
Post by HarryBayles on Nov 24, 2017 16:20:08 GMT
This is my first post. I am a long-term reader of the forum going back to the old “official forum” days but I have never posted. I have become increasing bewildered by the lack of intelligent analysis of what is going wrong on the pitch. It appears players are blamed regardless of fault. Blame the innocent and praise the guilty. There are exceptions, some posters clearly understand football. But some people are watching a different game to me. I have registered to try to bring some technical analysis and understanding to this forum. I have worked as an analyst, preparing videos and doing the run-through with the team – trying to understand what went wrong and what needs to be improved. As and when I have the time I will try to do this on our goals. Starting with the three against Wimbledon. For me everything stems from our midfield. Our midfield were woeful defensively on Saturday. They were disorganised, didn’t work as a unit and at times lazy (the first two goals are perfect examples). As the game progressed they hid, not showing for the ball and forcing the back 4 to go long. Our centre backs were OK. They were far from perfect but, bizarrely, the bulk of the criticism is falling on the two Toms. In my view the level of criticism is unjustified. It was what happened in front of them that was the real problem. How to sort it? I would play a defensive mid-fielder (4-1-3-2) and tell him his job is to fill the gap between the defence and the midfield. Play it simple, work your nuts off and protect that back four. If he breaks forward, as inevitably gaps will open, one of the three in front of him MUST fill in. We don’t have wingers so forget width – Brown and Leadbitter can provide that. For me, the choice for the holding midfielder is between Partington and Lockyer. Lockyer is our best defender by far (contrary to popular myth) so I would go for Partington. But most importantly I would work all week on getting them organised and understanding their roles and responsibilities. I just don’t think this is the case at the moment. All of my defensive sessions would include the midfield as that is what is really needed. It’s time to make us hard to beat. Simple as that. Nil-nil Saturday would be awesome. It ain’t rocket science. But it does need a tactical change. Come on DC, sort it out. The good news is that it is about how we set up and get organised. We have the same players, they were good enough last year, they are good enough this year, we just aren’t set up right. Will Dubey? |
|
|
|
Post by warehamgas on Nov 24, 2017 16:25:08 GMT
This is my first post. I am a long-term reader of the forum going back to the old “official forum” days but I have never posted. I have become increasing bewildered by the lack of intelligent analysis of what is going wrong on the pitch. It appears players are blamed regardless of fault. Blame the innocent and praise the guilty. There are exceptions, some posters clearly understand football. But some people are watching a different game to me. I have registered to try to bring some technical analysis and understanding to this forum. I have worked as an analyst, preparing videos and doing the run-through with the team – trying to understand what went wrong and what needs to be improved. As and when I have the time I will try to do this on our goals. Starting with the three against Wimbledon. For me everything stems from our midfield. Our midfield were woeful defensively on Saturday. They were disorganised, didn’t work as a unit and at times lazy (the first two goals are perfect examples). As the game progressed they hid, not showing for the ball and forcing the back 4 to go long. Our centre backs were OK. They were far from perfect but, bizarrely, the bulk of the criticism is falling on the two Toms. In my view the level of criticism is unjustified. It was what happened in front of them that was the real problem. How to sort it? I would play a defensive mid-fielder (4-1-3-2) and tell him his job is to fill the gap between the defence and the midfield. Play it simple, work your nuts off and protect that back four. If he breaks forward, as inevitably gaps will open, one of the three in front of him MUST fill in. We don’t have wingers so forget width – Brown and Leadbitter can provide that. For me, the choice for the holding midfielder is between Partington and Lockyer. Lockyer is our best defender by far (contrary to popular myth) so I would go for Partington. But most importantly I would work all week on getting them organised and understanding their roles and responsibilities. I just don’t think this is the case at the moment. All of my defensive sessions would include the midfield as that is what is really needed. It’s time to make us hard to beat. Simple as that. Nil-nil Saturday would be awesome. It ain’t rocket science. But it does need a tactical change. Come on DC, sort it out. The good news is that it is about how we set up and get organised. We have the same players, they were good enough last year, they are good enough this year, we just aren’t set up right. Good read, welcome. Lots of good points, but as others have said CHs have struggled with basic crosses into the box. Against Notts Co it was woeful. One of the problems has been lack of consistency. I love D.C. and think he’s the best man for us but I’m still not sure DC knows his best team. I’ve accepted for a year or two that he will play different systems depending upon opponents which is good but can backfire as players at this level sometimes struggle with different systems. UTG! |
|
|
|
Post by madgas on Nov 24, 2017 16:34:11 GMT
This is my first post. I am a long-term reader of the forum going back to the old “official forum” days but I have never posted. I have become increasing bewildered by the lack of intelligent analysis of what is going wrong on the pitch. It appears players are blamed regardless of fault. Blame the innocent and praise the guilty. There are exceptions, some posters clearly understand football. But some people are watching a different game to me. I have registered to try to bring some technical analysis and understanding to this forum. I have worked as an analyst, preparing videos and doing the run-through with the team – trying to understand what went wrong and what needs to be improved. As and when I have the time I will try to do this on our goals. Starting with the three against Wimbledon. For me everything stems from our midfield. Our midfield were woeful defensively on Saturday. They were disorganised, didn’t work as a unit and at times lazy (the first two goals are perfect examples). As the game progressed they hid, not showing for the ball and forcing the back 4 to go long. Our centre backs were OK. They were far from perfect but, bizarrely, the bulk of the criticism is falling on the two Toms. In my view the level of criticism is unjustified. It was what happened in front of them that was the real problem. How to sort it? I would play a defensive mid-fielder (4-1-3-2) and tell him his job is to fill the gap between the defence and the midfield. Play it simple, work your nuts off and protect that back four. If he breaks forward, as inevitably gaps will open, one of the three in front of him MUST fill in. We don’t have wingers so forget width – Brown and Leadbitter can provide that. For me, the choice for the holding midfielder is between Partington and Lockyer. Lockyer is our best defender by far (contrary to popular myth) so I would go for Partington. But most importantly I would work all week on getting them organised and understanding their roles and responsibilities. I just don’t think this is the case at the moment. All of my defensive sessions would include the midfield as that is what is really needed. It’s time to make us hard to beat. Simple as that. Nil-nil Saturday would be awesome. It ain’t rocket science. But it does need a tactical change. Come on DC, sort it out. The good news is that it is about how we set up and get organised. We have the same players, they were good enough last year, they are good enough this year, we just aren’t set up right. Regarding your analysis of Saturday- I tend to agree. The midfield were to blame for the majority of what occurred. But whilst they haven’t been spectacular the midfield have rarely put in, such a horror show. Usually it has come down to defensive errors: Both a combination of individual errors and (too often) too many defenders too far forward. In relation to this, there’s the diagonal ball. We know DC loves it. And it does bring us success. Unlike others I wouldn’t stop the use. (It’s been a huge weapon) but we need to be more intelligent about it. With Sercs, and sincs it wasn’t on. Yet it was played, and played again. Combined with no Gaffney, who loves that space in the channels- it just wasn’t natual to the players we had. I’d seriously, like to see Bola played ahead of Brown. Would give us natural width. Finally, agree that locks is decent. But he does need to step up with the ball. We’ve become so formulaic, that when a CB is on the ball, the FBs go wide. If the pass isn’t played quick enough, they get covered. And the ball is still played. We need to play on ‘attention’ that teams are paying to our switchball. So that if locks steps up, the FBs fill in. Also- cracking first post. Please continue. |
|
|
|
Post by garystash on Nov 24, 2017 17:07:27 GMT
Double O Severn, when you describe the player you think we need, it sounds like you're talking about Stuart Sinclair. How come you don't see him as an option?
|
|
|
|
Post by Topper Gas on Nov 24, 2017 18:38:19 GMT
Parts was so bad in the DCM role at Rochdale he was subbed at half time, even though he only moved in to midfield after around 15 mins. DC seems to be playing Lines in the DCM role as he's the only other option to OC even though he can't tackle, Sincs would be perfect but not disciplined enough to play it. The other option is Development player Luke Russe as surely he can't be any worse than OC's been lately. Failing which with Rollin and Burn as cover at CB why not use Locks in midfield?
|
|
|
|
Post by spiess1 on Nov 24, 2017 18:49:20 GMT
As long as Lines is in midfield (defensive duties)- especially away, the back 5 will struggle.
See his last 300 games for us).
|
|
|
|
Post by Topper Gas on Nov 24, 2017 19:04:17 GMT
As long as Lines is in midfield (defensive duties)- especially away, the back 5 will struggle. See his last 300 games for us). Two promotions and a our highest league finish for 17(?) years suggest he's not done too bad a job in those last 100 or so games. Although w/o Lines in midfield we really do struggle this season as Sercs is even more lightweight. |
|
|
|
Post by Russgas on Nov 24, 2017 19:09:34 GMT
Parts was so bad in the DCM role at Rochdale he was subbed at half time, even though he only moved in to midfield after around 15 mins. DC seems to be playing Lines in the DCM role as he's the only other option to OC even though he can't tackle, Sincs would be perfect but not disciplined enough to play it. The other option is Development player Luke Russe as surely he can't be any worse than OC's been lately. Failing which with Rollin and Burn as cover at CB why not use Locks in midfield?Lockyer's strengths are reading the game/ positional sense. His distribution is awful and always has been.In that role you not only need someone to break up the play,you also have to be able to hold on to the ball and be composed with it and pass it. |
|
