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Post by Topper Gas on Jan 29, 2018 8:57:53 GMT
I'd rather some sort of plan/design than the absolute silence we have at the moment. I recall the old board got no end of stick for lack of communication (rightly so) yet this lot are getting a free ride and can do no wrong. As a Rovers fan I would love for them to come good and finance a team and a stadium worthy of the support this club gets and could get, but on the evidence so far I think they are playing for time because they do not know/care how they are going to push this club on (at least in the way our current manager would like) hence no communication. You do the design profession a dis-service. It’s not as if you just paint a picture and get the gig. We start again, from the very beginning. This means: - investigating how best to utilise the space. - consultations. We need a budget. A designer could paint the New Camp into our space at horfield doesn’t make it feasible. - talks with locals and BCC. - decisions over what over adjoining business ideas. Ie student accommodation, hospitality, etc. - road layouts. At that point you might wish to talk to several architects- And then chose one. So why not keep us updated, we could be doing all that, then again we could be doing zero planning.
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Post by peterparker on Jan 29, 2018 9:06:37 GMT
You do the design profession a dis-service. It’s not as if you just paint a picture and get the gig. We start again, from the very beginning. This means: - investigating how best to utilise the space. - consultations. We need a budget. A designer could paint the New Camp into our space at horfield doesn’t make it feasible. - talks with locals and BCC. - decisions over what over adjoining business ideas. Ie student accommodation, hospitality, etc. - road layouts. At that point you might wish to talk to several architects- And then chose one. So why not keep us updated, we could be doing all that, then again we could be doing zero planning. Probably because a load of people wouldnt beleive them anyway and claim it was just a stalling tactic to do nothing
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Post by LJG on Jan 29, 2018 11:20:05 GMT
You do the design profession a dis-service. It’s not as if you just paint a picture and get the gig. We start again, from the very beginning. This means: - investigating how best to utilise the space. - consultations. We need a budget. A designer could paint the New Camp into our space at horfield doesn’t make it feasible. - talks with locals and BCC. - decisions over what over adjoining business ideas. Ie student accommodation, hospitality, etc. - road layouts. At that point you might wish to talk to several architects- And then chose one. So why not keep us updated, we could be doing all that, then again we could be doing zero planning. Have you forgotten the Bodin smokescreen already? Surely not? It's supposed to be the other way around!!! Wael! Steve! It hasn't worked!!!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2018 12:46:02 GMT
You do the design profession a dis-service. It’s not as if you just paint a picture and get the gig. We start again, from the very beginning. This means: - investigating how best to utilise the space. - consultations. We need a budget. A designer could paint the New Camp into our space at horfield doesn’t make it feasible. - talks with locals and BCC. - decisions over what over adjoining business ideas. Ie student accommodation, hospitality, etc. - road layouts. At that point you might wish to talk to several architects- And then chose one. So why not keep us updated, we could be doing all that, then again we could be doing zero planning. They have been in post for two years. Was the collapse of the uwe such a shock that they had no time to work on plan B just in case? We will still be here saying the same things in 3 years time and people will still be making excuses for them. I get people want to be all happy and believe that these are the best owners ever and all that but given what we have seen so far it is nothing but sheer faith that they will achieve anything of note in terms of giving this club a quality infrastructure.
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Post by socrates on Jan 29, 2018 12:50:32 GMT
So why not keep us updated, we could be doing all that, then again we could be doing zero planning. They have been in post for two years. Was the collapse of the uwe such a shock that they had no time to work on plan B just in case? We will still be here saying the same things in 3 years time and people will still be making excuses for them. I get people want to be all happy and believe that these are the best owners ever and all that but given what we have seen so far it is nothing but sheer faith that they will achieve anything of note in terms of giving this club a quality infrastructure. It’s a case of we’re supporters we’ll just have to wait and see. I’m happy with that. I don’t expect Wael to tell us anything until there’s something to tell. It doesn’t mean they’re doing a great job and everything’s rosy it doesn’t mean their useless either. They havent been here 2 years yet it’s early days.
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Post by madgas on Jan 29, 2018 12:54:45 GMT
You do the design profession a dis-service. It’s not as if you just paint a picture and get the gig. We start again, from the very beginning. This means: - investigating how best to utilise the space. - consultations. We need a budget. A designer could paint the New Camp into our space at horfield doesn’t make it feasible. - talks with locals and BCC. - decisions over what over adjoining business ideas. Ie student accommodation, hospitality, etc. - road layouts. At that point you might wish to talk to several architects- And then chose one. So why not keep us updated, we could be doing all that, then again we could be doing zero planning. Would you really find: Bristol rovers - confirm they are investigating the possibility of including a Gym/ insert other buisness idea within the design of the stadium... It’s only been 6 months, I expect progress but not a blow by blow commentary.
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Jan 29, 2018 13:04:07 GMT
So why not keep us updated, we could be doing all that, then again we could be doing zero planning. Would you really find: Bristol rovers - confirm they are investigating the possibility of including a Gym/ insert other buisness idea within the design of the stadium... It’s only been 6 months, I expect progress but not a blow by blow commentary. People with real money and real intent dont do that. They just buy and build stuff. Said to a mate a couple of weeks ago, one day we will turn up and find half a stand built in the car park!!
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Post by stuart1974 on Jan 29, 2018 13:18:25 GMT
So why not keep us updated, we could be doing all that, then again we could be doing zero planning. They have been in post for two years. Was the collapse of the uwe such a shock that they had no time to work on plan B just in case? We will still be here saying the same things in 3 years time and people will still be making excuses for them. I get people want to be all happy and believe that these are the best owners ever and all that but given what we have seen so far it is nothing but sheer faith that they will achieve anything of note in terms of giving this club a quality infrastructure. Based on what has been said and the sudden rush to close down the leak of it collapsing, I would have thought that yes, it was a shock. If they genuinely thought it was happening then why would they spend time, money and effort into providing detailed alternatives. I'm as disapointed as anyone that (a) it failed, (b) that no Plan B was ready and (c) they aren't officially looking elsewhere for a new build, but I'm not going to use it as a stick to beat them with. In order to make a rebuild viable then they have to make sure that it works from a financial and building regulations viewpoint. It's all very well having outline sketches but unless what goes on underneath the seats in terms of weekday revenue generating facilities is worked out and they have sounded out both potential opposition groups and the Council, then it is a moot point. I love doing "back of the fag packet" calculations (see my previous posts for that 😀) but Wael & Co can't do that.
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Jan 29, 2018 13:23:41 GMT
They have been in post for two years. Was the collapse of the uwe such a shock that they had no time to work on plan B just in case? We will still be here saying the same things in 3 years time and people will still be making excuses for them. I get people want to be all happy and believe that these are the best owners ever and all that but given what we have seen so far it is nothing but sheer faith that they will achieve anything of note in terms of giving this club a quality infrastructure. Based on what has been said and the sudden rush to close down the leak of it collapsing, I would have thought that yes, it was a shock. If they genuinely thought it was happening then why would they spend time, money and effort into providing detailed alternatives. I'm as disapointed as anyone that (a) it failed, (b) that no Plan B was ready and (c) they aren't officially looking elsewhere for a new build, but I'm not going to use it as a stick to beat them with. In order to make a rebuild viable then they have to make sure that it works from a financial and building regulations viewpoint. It's all very well having outline sketches but unless what goes on underneath the seats in terms of weekday revenue generating facilities is worked out and they have sounded out both potential opposition groups and the Council, then it is a moot point. I love doing "back of the fag packet" calculations (see my previous posts for that 😀) but Wael & Co can't do that. Why not? It's what the last board that 365 seems to love so much did.
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Post by baggins on Jan 29, 2018 13:26:50 GMT
So why not keep us updated, we could be doing all that, then again we could be doing zero planning. They have been in post for two years. Was the collapse of the uwe such a shock that they had no time to work on plan B just in case? We will still be here saying the same things in 3 years time and people will still be making excuses for them. I get people want to be all happy and believe that these are the best owners ever and all that but given what we have seen so far it is nothing but sheer faith that they will achieve anything of note in terms of giving this club a quality infrastructure. Quality infrastructure like employing over 10 backroom staff to make sure the squad, youth, club are run better? Like buying and developing a new Training facility? Like moving the club shop into the 21st Century? How's OTIB these days?
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Post by stuart1974 on Jan 29, 2018 13:38:23 GMT
Based on what has been said and the sudden rush to close down the leak of it collapsing, I would have thought that yes, it was a shock. If they genuinely thought it was happening then why would they spend time, money and effort into providing detailed alternatives. I'm as disapointed as anyone that (a) it failed, (b) that no Plan B was ready and (c) they aren't officially looking elsewhere for a new build, but I'm not going to use it as a stick to beat them with. In order to make a rebuild viable then they have to make sure that it works from a financial and building regulations viewpoint. It's all very well having outline sketches but unless what goes on underneath the seats in terms of weekday revenue generating facilities is worked out and they have sounded out both potential opposition groups and the Council, then it is a moot point. I love doing "back of the fag packet" calculations (see my previous posts for that 😀) but Wael & Co can't do that. Why not? It's what the last board that 365 seems to love so much did. I was told by a City friend back in the late 80s/early 90s that our various stadium plans were only made public as a diversion attempt by the Dunfords when City were doing better and they wanted to deflect attention and be seen to be doing something. It's only what would happen now short of a formal planning application, and even then some would say it was a cheap way to stall things whilst they look to get out. No win situation. Until it's built and probably afterwards too, there will be people saying it's not good enough. Would I like to know more and sooner? Yes, of course. Do I understand that this can't be rushed just to please fans, yes. Some middle ground would be nice, though.
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Post by baggins on Jan 29, 2018 13:42:25 GMT
Why not? It's what the last board that 365 seems to love so much did. I was told by a City friend back in the late 80s/early 90s that our various stadium plans were only made public as a diversion attempt by the Dunfords when City were doing better and they wanted to deflect attention and be seen to be doing something. It's only what would happen now short of a formal planning application, and even then some would say it was a cheap way to stall things whilst they look to get out. No win situation. Until it's built and probably afterwards too, there will be people saying it's not good enough. Would I like to know more and sooner? Yes, of course. Do I understand that this can't be rushed just to please fans, yes. Some middle ground would be nice, though. Just let the powers at be do their thing behind the scenes.
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Post by bluestone on Jan 29, 2018 14:03:53 GMT
So why not keep us updated, we could be doing all that, then again we could be doing zero planning. They have been in post for two years. Was the collapse of the uwe such a shock that they had no time to work on plan B just in case? We will still be here saying the same things in 3 years time and people will still be making excuses for them. I get people want to be all happy and believe that these are the best owners ever and all that but given what we have seen so far it is nothing but sheer faith that they will achieve anything of note in terms of giving this club a quality infrastructure. Working on plan B,C,D & E etc at the same time as plan A would have cost us money which we couldn't afford to waste. They've said before that until very late in the day they believed the UWE deal would happen but then UWE started undoing the progress they thought had been made. It was dragging on and on so they decided to force the issue to a conclusion by issuing them a deadline to agree to terms, UWE did not respond and we walked away. People either believe them or they don't it seems, I have not seen any evidence to suggest they are not telling the truth so I believe them. To me that was a brave decision, given the disappointment to the fan base and subsequent criticism that it has drawn which I'm sure they would have known would come their way. So it's back to square one, the drawing board, as they say. We need to give them some time and space to develop their own ideas and proposals, this doesn't happen overnight, see outline of key tasks below: 1) Identify business case and strategic brief. 2) Develop project objectives, budget, outline programme. 3) Prepare initial project brief. 4) Undertake feasibility studies for various options. 5) Review site information and constraints. 6) Prepare concept design. 7) Submit planning pre-application. 8) Amend plans to suit outcome of consultations. 9) Submit planning application. In amongst all of the above you have to undertake stakeholder consultations (dozens of interested parties for a project like this such as this!) at every step, as well as engage and commission various consultants including designers at the appropriate stage. All of this takes time and this is just to get to the point where you can submit a planning application. I am involved in a large and complicated project (£70m+ value) in my workplace and have been for the best part of a year now, in that time we have done steps 5 to 9 above. In terms of the Mem redevelopment given they had to more or less start from scratch I wouldn't expect DS to have got past step 2 yet tbh. Personally I think it is unrealistic to expect them to keep us informed every single step of the way on this because the process is so involved and dynamic, the proposal develops and evolves along the way responding to feedback and constraints. They will want to be confident that they can deliver something before they share it publicly with us and the wider world. When they have something they are ready to share with us we will be told, in the meantime as fans we need to keep turning up on a match day to support the team, manager and the club in its endeavour to at least maintain our L1 status. UTG!
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Post by knowall on Jan 29, 2018 14:27:23 GMT
They have been in post for two years. Was the collapse of the uwe such a shock that they had no time to work on plan B just in case? We will still be here saying the same things in 3 years time and people will still be making excuses for them. I get people want to be all happy and believe that these are the best owners ever and all that but given what we have seen so far it is nothing but sheer faith that they will achieve anything of note in terms of giving this club a quality infrastructure. Working on plan B,C,D & E etc at the same time as plan A would have cost us money which we couldn't afford to waste. They've said before that until very late in the day they believed the UWE deal would happen but then UWE started undoing the progress they thought had been made. It was dragging on and on so they decided to force the issue to a conclusion by issuing them a deadline to agree to terms, UWE did not respond and we walked away. People either believe them or they don't it seems, I have not seen any evidence to suggest they are not telling the truth so I believe them. To me that was a brave decision, given the disappointment to the fan base and subsequent criticism that it has drawn which I'm sure they would have known would come their way. So it's back to square one, the drawing board, as they say. We need to give them some time and space to develop their own ideas and proposals, this doesn't happen overnight, see outline of key tasks below: 1) Identify business case and strategic brief. 2) Develop project objectives, budget, outline programme. 3) Prepare initial project brief. 4) Undertake feasibility studies for various options. 5) Review site information and constraints. 6) Prepare concept design. 7) Submit planning pre-application. 8) Amend plans to suit outcome of consultations. 9) Submit planning application. In amongst all of the above you have to undertake stakeholder consultations (dozens of interested parties for a project like this such as this!) at every step, as well as engage and commission various consultants including designers at the appropriate stage. All of this takes time and this is just to get to the point where you can submit a planning application. I am involved in a large and complicated project (£70m+ value) in my workplace and have been for the best part of a year now, in that time we have done steps 5 to 9 above. In terms of the Mem redevelopment given they had to more or less start from scratch I wouldn't expect DS to have got past step 2 yet tbh. Personally I think it is unrealistic to expect them to keep us informed every single step of the way on this because the process is so involved and dynamic, the proposal develops and evolves along the way responding to feedback and constraints. They will want to be confident that they can deliver something before they share it publicly with us and the wider world. When they have something they are ready to share with us we will be told, in the meantime as fans we need to keep turning up on a match day to support the team, manager and the club in its endeavour to at least maintain our L1 status. UTG! Excellent summary - needs to be rolled out every time the disbelievers criticise
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Post by spiess1 on Jan 29, 2018 16:02:37 GMT
You'm totally clueless, bluestone. This is how it really works: Rich foreigner turns up. Endless top players bought. New stadium built straightaway. Hey presto. Simples.
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Post by oldtoteender on Jan 29, 2018 16:53:11 GMT
Call me Cynical, but we may hear something just before next seasons season tickets go on sale
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Post by bluestone on Jan 29, 2018 17:03:20 GMT
You'm totally clueless, bluestone. This is how it really works: Rich foreigner turns up. Endless top players bought. New stadium built straightaway. Hey presto. Simples. I know right, how long does it take to put up a few tents for god's sake!?
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Post by bluestone on Jan 29, 2018 17:05:19 GMT
Call me Cynical, but we may hear something just before next seasons season tickets go on sale I don't understand why buying a ST would be conditional on stadium plans, even if they unveiled a plan tomorrow and said they were ready to apply for planning consent it wouldn't be ready for next season, or the season after that and probably the season after that!
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Post by LJG on Jan 29, 2018 17:06:23 GMT
All we are saying is give us some artist's impressions!
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Post by Big Jock on Jan 29, 2018 17:59:09 GMT
All we are saying is give us some artist's impressions! Ok, i has pulled al my re(sources) an not only come up with an artists impression but also th vision for th club, startin from th beaches of Jordan right thru to th future, sit back, relax, an enjoy........ Big Jock Productions Present..... In conjunction with 'Ship Shape and Bristol Rovers Fashion Productions' ...... Based on a remarkable True Story..... Bristol Rovers Football Club, Past an Present...A Vision.
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