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Post by Henbury Gas on Mar 13, 2018 15:42:55 GMT
I fully expect it to take 2 years to explore all possible options for a new ground, get agreements etc before anything is announced to the Public. How Long did Sir Nick negotiate with the UWE before it became common knowledge So greatness isnt that close is it. Hence the Title "On the Edge of Greatness"....
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Post by peterparker on Mar 13, 2018 15:43:38 GMT
On Wiki, the UWE stadium was described as this.. The bowl-shaped stadium would have been all-seated with an initial capacity of 21,700. The stadium has been designed to adhere to international standards for both football and rugby. The stadium was designed to minimise the impact on the local environment, including using the topography of the site to effectively enclose the stadium and minimise noise and light disruption, as well as being designed to allow the capacity to be increased to 26,000 without making any external changes and up to 35,000 should it be needed. Now, if 60 million is presumed to be too much, could WAQ deliver anything remotely close? it doesn't mean 60m is too much necessarily, but was too much for UWE given we probably wouldn't be getting all the income from it
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Post by singupgas on Mar 13, 2018 15:52:30 GMT
On Wiki, the UWE stadium was described as this.. The bowl-shaped stadium would have been all-seated with an initial capacity of 21,700. The stadium has been designed to adhere to international standards for both football and rugby. The stadium was designed to minimise the impact on the local environment, including using the topography of the site to effectively enclose the stadium and minimise noise and light disruption, as well as being designed to allow the capacity to be increased to 26,000 without making any external changes and up to 35,000 should it be needed. Now, if 60 million is presumed to be too much, could WAQ deliver anything remotely close? I think the best we could get would be along the lines of other new Stadiums in our league ( Doncaster, Shrewsbury etc If that is our target, and our best hope is to matching Doncaster (Stad Cap 15,231, Population 109,805) and worse Shrewsbury (Stad Cap 9,875 , Population 71,715), then my expectations have been well and truly lowered. Being part of City getting on 500,000 and counting, If we are not aiming to be build a 20k minimum, with some future planning that our stadium can be easily expanded then i will be so so dissapointed, we might as well stay at the Mem as it is. We should be looking to build to the same spec as UWE elsewhere.
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Post by countygroundhotel on Mar 13, 2018 15:59:36 GMT
On Wiki, the UWE stadium was described as this.. The bowl-shaped stadium would have been all-seated with an initial capacity of 21,700. The stadium has been designed to adhere to international standards for both football and rugby. The stadium was designed to minimise the impact on the local environment, including using the topography of the site to effectively enclose the stadium and minimise noise and light disruption, as well as being designed to allow the capacity to be increased to 26,000 without making any external changes and up to 35,000 should it be needed. Now, if 60 million is presumed to be too much, could WAQ deliver anything remotely close? it doesn't mean 60m is too much necessarily, but was too much for UWE given we probably wouldn't be getting all the income from it Probably wouldn't or probably would've neither you or I or the vast majority of people on here know that. What we do know is that it was the only site in the Bristol area with a usable planning permission for a stadium. Though I'm sure others will be able to identify a lot of potential sites available at knock down prices, I mean it's not like us and City, and probably the rugby club, have been trying to find those sites for the last 20 or 30 years is it?
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Post by peterparker on Mar 13, 2018 16:11:00 GMT
it doesn't mean 60m is too much necessarily, but was too much for UWE given we probably wouldn't be getting all the income from it Probably wouldn't or probably would've neither you or I or the vast majority of people on here know that. What we do know is that it was the only site in the Bristol area with a usable planning permission for a stadium. Though I'm sure others will be able to identify a lot of potential sites available at knock down prices, I mean it's not like us and City, and probably the rugby club, have been trying to find those sites for the last 20 or 30 years is it? Of course none of us know for sure, but I think we can make an educated guess
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Post by countygroundhotel on Mar 13, 2018 16:16:02 GMT
Probably wouldn't or probably would've neither you or I or the vast majority of people on here know that. What we do know is that it was the only site in the Bristol area with a usable planning permission for a stadium. Though I'm sure others will be able to identify a lot of potential sites available at knock down prices, I mean it's not like us and City, and probably the rugby club, have been trying to find those sites for the last 20 or 30 years is it? Of course none of us know for sure, but I think we can make an educated guess I have and suitable sites at knockdown prices aren't going to exist. Still UWE trustees missed a deadline so obviously the UWE became unviable makes you wonder how viable it was if that hadn't missed the deadline
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Post by gashead1981 on Mar 13, 2018 16:18:27 GMT
I can understand confidentitality agreements whilst a deal is being negotiated and upon its successful conclusion until a project is signed off. I don’t understand it for a failed project where both sides failed to agree where the deal is completely dead. At least us paying customers, although I prefer to call us fans, would have a better idea where we stand.
The build cost for the original UWE was £35m. Allow £5m for inflation costs of materials (which I think is generous) then a complete project was £40m.
I know that the ALQs also looked at changing various aspects of the build including putting a hotel complex on site, now that could explain the £60m being touted about.
Either way the ALQs have given up the best chance we have had for a stadium, and so far, there are no concrete plans to replace them apart from tarting up the Mem.
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Post by faggotygas on Mar 13, 2018 16:18:41 GMT
I don't think you can separate out the club and the playing side in that way, they come as a package. If every fan was only worried about the playing side then a downturn would see fans buggering off in droves. It's the story of the club that the fans follow, of which the playing side is just the sharp edge. Of course, every supporter is different.
Of course the playing side has been the most important factor in the improvement in attendances, but don't underestimate the story that has occurred off the field - the takeover of the al-Qadis caused a great deal of optimism and interest for a while.
However, it's hard to see how we can improve much on the pitch with current resources. It's therefore vital that the club work had to keep the fans engaged in other ways. Treating them like mere paying customers, as per Asda, isn't going to do that.
Yeah but let's be honest, can you name a single gashead who is not interested in the football and only cares about off the field matters, perhaps some on here give that illusion at times but really it is the team playing in blue and white that unites us. You say that if every fan only cared about the playing side a downturn would result in people leaving in their droves but isn't that what happens anyway? We are all stakeholders of Bristol Rovers FC so the interest in the off the matters will be mutual that is indisputable. The last thing I want is for the club to treat us like paying customers, my point was just that I don't think we should expect the level of communication see under Higgs and the Dunfords and that I think it's perfectly fine for the club to only announce stuff when there is stuff to announce. I think we pretty much agree in the main part. My point is that only really communicating when there is something to announce probably won't keep people engaged to the best possible level.
For a club like us, communication and getting fans on side is everything, in the long term.
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Post by knowall on Mar 13, 2018 16:26:43 GMT
And a lot of that debt was caused by Higgs with extortionate Wonga loans and costs for UWE that have had to be added back to P&L because they can't be capitalised and bills outstanding. A little bit of the eyes wide open that you are harping on about wouldn't go amiss..... I've probably forgotten more about company accounts over a thirty year career than you ever learnt pal. So take your condescension elsewhere. The losses occurred under the Al Qadi regime when the stadium failed. It failed on their watch, and even now the truth about why has never been disclosed. Remember that old chestnut 'secrecy agreement'. May have occurred recently but were incurred under NH realm Wonga (2.8) and stadium legal and planning costs (7?) were surely incurred by the NH BOD?? (Definition of incurred: A charge for a product or service received or delivered.)
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Post by knowall on Mar 13, 2018 16:37:47 GMT
I agree with you, but for different reasons. The AQs have to have failed to do proper due diligence on the UWE deal. They were handed a pup, but they paid for it without looking so must bare that responsibility. You are right Hugo. Hence the start of my worries over the AQ's. They are financial wizards, yet failed at the most fundamental level. Being fair to the sellers and the buyers - the dd may have been spot on BUT nothing was in writing with UWE and consequently when UWE saw 'billionaires' their attitude may have changed and they wanted more! - and more - and more so the deal changed.
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Post by stuart1974 on Mar 13, 2018 16:48:19 GMT
I can understand confidentitality agreements whilst a deal is being negotiated and upon its successful conclusion until a project is signed off. I don’t understand it for a failed project where both sides failed to agree where the deal is completely dead. At least us paying customers, although I prefer to call us fans, would have a better idea where we stand. The build cost for the original UWE was £35m. Allow £5m for inflation costs of materials (which I think is generous) then a complete project was £40m. I know that the ALQs also looked at changing various aspects of the build including putting a hotel complex on site, now that could explain the £60m being touted about. Either way the ALQs have given up the best chance we have had for a stadium, and so far, there are no concrete plans to replace them apart from tarting up the Mem. If Dwane opened up after previously agreeing to confidentiality then future partners would think twice about dealing with them (and us by extension) in case they did it again.
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Mar 13, 2018 16:53:05 GMT
You are right Hugo. Hence the start of my worries over the AQ's. They are financial wizards, yet failed at the most fundamental level. Being fair to the sellers and the buyers - the dd may have been spot on BUT nothing was in writing with UWE and consequently when UWE saw 'billionaires' their attitude may have changed and they wanted more! - and more - and more so the deal changed. If nothing was in writing then why buy us at all?? Seems a risky thing to have done and counter to the narrative that they are super smart and have their finger on the pulse.
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Post by knowall on Mar 13, 2018 17:04:16 GMT
Being fair to the sellers and the buyers - the dd may have been spot on BUT nothing was in writing with UWE and consequently when UWE saw 'billionaires' their attitude may have changed and they wanted more! - and more - and more so the deal changed. If nothing was in writing then why buy us at all?? Seems a risky thing to have done and counter to the narrative that they are super smart and have their finger on the pulse. If there was an agreement in writing both sides would have had to complete under the agreed terms. What would have been in place would be a Heads of Agreement
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2018 17:07:38 GMT
But at least we've still got the field to fall back on right?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2018 17:26:54 GMT
I wonder what the 8,960 regular fans who dont post on this forum think about it?
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Post by yattongas on Mar 13, 2018 17:48:40 GMT
But at least we've still got the field to fall back on right? Welcombe back nobster
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Post by contradiction on Mar 13, 2018 17:49:16 GMT
I can understand confidentitality agreements whilst a deal is being negotiated and upon its successful conclusion until a project is signed off. I don’t understand it for a failed project where both sides failed to agree where the deal is completely dead. At least us paying customers, although I prefer to call us fans, would have a better idea where we stand. As a businessman, do you advocate doing everything publicly? Or only when it comes to Rovers? This is a real question. We want information, we alwayss do because of the emotional investment in the club . But if it was our own business we wouldn't do want we are advocating for 1883/DS, because proper businesses don't do their business in public. If you disagree, then perhaps publish your business plan, strategic plans and investment ideas for the next 3 years on here. And give details of negotiations you may be having with your partners or potential partners. I'm joking of course, but you get my drift.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2018 17:53:14 GMT
But at least we've still got the field to fall back on right? "Build it and they will come" someone might have said, once.
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Post by gashead1981 on Mar 13, 2018 20:01:55 GMT
I can understand confidentitality agreements whilst a deal is being negotiated and upon its successful conclusion until a project is signed off. I don’t understand it for a failed project where both sides failed to agree where the deal is completely dead. At least us paying customers, although I prefer to call us fans, would have a better idea where we stand. As a businessman, do you advocate doing everything publicly? Or only when it comes to Rovers? This is a real question. We want information, we alwayss do because of the emotional investment in the club . But if it was our own business we wouldn't do want we are advocating for 1883/DS, because proper businesses don't do their business in public. If you disagree, then perhaps publish your business plan, strategic plans and investment ideas for the next 3 years on here. And give details of negotiations you may be having with your partners or potential partners. I'm joking of course, but you get my drift. Umm...that’s why I said once the deal is dead with no chance of going returning to the table. A football club is unlike any other business in that there is paying investor customer base which makes it a public interest. It’s more than pure emotion. Without us supporters, the clubs value plummets as does the ALQ investment, effectively. The club is also supported financially by other local businesses through sponsorship. So for each business that does put money in, they will look at the profile, investment on return etc. Currently, any business that advertises is limited by the amount of people we get into the stadium and the league we play in. If I closed my business down tomorrow, people would simply find another garage to repair their car or buy there next new one. HNW investors would find another broker to help them etc... however I do share my plans with my employees and other people that maybe relavent. Unless there is some patented product there is no reason for cloak and dagger. If BRFC went bust tomorrow there would be uproar, talks of pheonixed clubs or rescuing the existing company. So you can’t compare any business to a football club really. Because of the amount of public interest and financial investment it draws from its fan base, we all deserve a little more information and reasons why, than we are currently getting. .
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Post by socrates on Mar 13, 2018 20:52:20 GMT
The thing is, if you think back to the events of 2006 , Football has changed so much in those 11/12 years. The money in football is now even more insane. Short of someone with more money than sense coming in and bankrolling the club, ‘we’ have to work with what we have, or dream of mythical consortiums who may or may not be any better I may have issues with the old board and the way they went about things, Nick Higgs endlessly chasing a dream he could never meet, but they financed the club to the point they could no longer whatever their mistakes and for that they deserve some respect, even if I, or no one else didn’t always show it Maybe we are destined to be a 3rd division club or worse forever, but I don’t know what I am supposed to ‘DEMAND’ anymore. All I ever wanted was for us to be a better run football club and I don’t know how that fits/works now in the crazy world of football finance City fans are totally oblivious to any concept of budget constraints or debt worries etc and scream blue murder about a lousy january window despite the massive outlay from lansdown on ashton gate and a £21m+ wage budget and the same must apply at several other championship clubs. Do i want bristol rovers to be like that? No i dont but is it possible to get anywhere serious in football without that type of unrestrained spending? The dream is a well run financially viable rovers with a thriving youth system and a much improved or new ground that can sustain championship football. But is that just a pipe dream? I think it’s a dream that our board and manager have got us on a better track to than any other previous board. Time will tell.
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