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Post by countygroundhotel on Mar 14, 2018 10:57:11 GMT
If you can't challenge why we're running up £3m annual debts Inc £250K wasted on an office in London whilst being told we have a bottom half budget but a top 6 average home attendance, we may as well all become nodding dogs. there are justifiable questions to be asked and I would never want anyone to stop asking them or asking them myself.
The issue I have is people trying to pick holes in something, and what seems like desperately trying to find something wrong (and that isn't necessarily aimed at you Topper)
Interest charges on directors loans have been in the accounts for years. Not exactly a stick to beat the new owners with as if this is something new and unheard of
the office. the cost is coming out of 1883Ltd, but 1883Ltd is Dwane Sports, so whom is losing out over whom exactly? Likewise Mike Turner's expenses
The charge on The Mem again isn't exactly an odd business practice.
I get that some of these things will look odd, or not make any sense, but it is about asking the right questions and being able to understand the answers and how the Group of Companies is structured.
f**k me the Club is not Dwane Sports it is circa 92% owned by them hence why they have to have the embarrassment of having an AGM. On the other forum you are arguing that Dwane Sports are funding the losses which are increased by the interest they are charging the club. The fact is Dwane Sports are providing the cash via the revolving credit facility to support those losses. They will be funding those losses the day they start writing off the revolving credit facility. Lap dogs really don't like facing awkward truths about their masters do they PP?
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Post by peterparker on Mar 14, 2018 11:03:54 GMT
Agree with your comments but the Family are investment bankers and i'm pretty sure they have a plan to get their investment back and develop the club hand in hand. That must include a new stadium and other facilities I'd like to think so. But there have just been a few things (including Wael's admission that running a football club was a lot more complex than they originally thought) that have rung alarm bells for me. He really does seem like a great guy who has the club's best interest at heart - but then we also seem to be putting our left foot in and then our left foot out and then doing the hokey cokey when it comes to what we're doing at the colony and even with the basic location of the new stadium. Doesn't inspire me with confidence when mixed messages are coming out of the club a lot of the time in regards the big infrastructure projects. Anyhow, at the end of the day all we can do is watch it unfold. You could probably attribute that to a lot of football club owners though surely. I bet Nick Higgs would say the same
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Post by faggotygas on Mar 14, 2018 11:19:01 GMT
DS are the creditors. So the new owners pay off the creditors (DS) and become the new creditors; or DS writes all or part of it off; or the club gets wound up and the creditor (DS) receives whatever assets are left.
Same as if this holding company structure didn't exist. Holding companies are common in the non-football word too.
So just to clarify are you essentially agreeing with me? ie they will need the value of any existing debt paid to them by any new owners or they will need to effectively write off some or all of the debt in order to attract a buyer at a more realistic price. Yes, absolutely. Ultimately 3 possible outcomes for the owners of the club in the long term (applies to any business) - Sell, wind up, list:
Sell, any debt repaid in full by new creditor (owner), or write off part or all of any debt, rest repaid by new creditor (owner) Wind up & sell assets. Any debt remaining after the assets are sold is written off. Issue public shares listed on a stock market! This is unlikely...
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Post by faggotygas on Mar 14, 2018 11:21:27 GMT
Dwane Sports own 1883 ltd, 1883lts in turn owns Bristol Rovers Football Club and owns The Memorial Stadium (separate entities). Dwane Sports fund 1883Ltd. 1883Ltd loses money, this is a cost to Dwane Sports and by extension The Al-Qadi Family and however they get there money Replace Dwane Sports with Nick Higgs That bit is quite simply to understand I would say. Bristol Rovers 1883 ltd owns the Memorial Stadium. It isn’t a separate company and hasn’t been so for approx 15 years. So what is THE MEMORIAL STADIUM COMPANY LIMITED, Company number 03536554, still active on Companies House? Genuine question.
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Post by peterparker on Mar 14, 2018 11:29:09 GMT
there are justifiable questions to be asked and I would never want anyone to stop asking them or asking them myself.
The issue I have is people trying to pick holes in something, and what seems like desperately trying to find something wrong (and that isn't necessarily aimed at you Topper)
Interest charges on directors loans have been in the accounts for years. Not exactly a stick to beat the new owners with as if this is something new and unheard of
the office. the cost is coming out of 1883Ltd, but 1883Ltd is Dwane Sports, so whom is losing out over whom exactly? Likewise Mike Turner's expenses
The charge on The Mem again isn't exactly an odd business practice.
I get that some of these things will look odd, or not make any sense, but it is about asking the right questions and being able to understand the answers and how the Group of Companies is structured.
f**k me the Club is not Dwane Sports it is circa 92% owned by them hence why they have to have the embarrassment of having an AGM. On the other forum you are arguing that Dwane Sports are funding the losses which are increased by the interest they are charging the club. The fact is Dwane Sports are providing the cash via the revolving credit facility to support those losses. They will be funding those losses the day they start writing off the revolving credit facility. Lap dogs really don't like facing awkward truths about their masters do they PP? 92% or 100% they can do what they want. Of the other 8% is there anyone significant other than The toothless supporters club? Maybe Dwane should get on any buy everyone out Did Nick Higgs and co, not fund the club in the shape of loans which accumulated interest?
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Post by BishopstonBRFC on Mar 14, 2018 11:45:17 GMT
I've deliberately avoided this place for a few days knowing the AGM would produce the latest meltdown.
Honestly, do I need to read between pages 5 and 14? Because I learned sweet FA in pages 1 to 5.
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Post by Henbury Gas on Mar 14, 2018 11:48:01 GMT
I've deliberately avoided this place for a few days knowing the AGM would produce the latest meltdown. Honestly, do I need to read between pages 5 and 14? Because I learned sweet FA in pages 1 to 5. You will be better reading the letters page in Woman's own magazine... oops my secret fetish is out
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Post by baggins on Mar 14, 2018 11:51:50 GMT
I've deliberately avoided this place for a few days knowing the AGM would produce the latest meltdown. Honestly, do I need to read between pages 5 and 14? Because I learned sweet FA in pages 1 to 5. You will be better reading the letters page in Woman's own magazine... oops my secret fetish is out You write most of them.
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Post by baggins on Mar 14, 2018 11:53:41 GMT
I've deliberately avoided this place for a few days knowing the AGM would produce the latest meltdown. Honestly, do I need to read between pages 5 and 14? Because I learned sweet FA in pages 1 to 5. Nope, peterparkers post on page 12 a few hours ago will do.
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Post by Henbury Gas on Mar 14, 2018 11:54:56 GMT
You will be better reading the letters page in Woman's own magazine... oops my secret fetish is out You write most of them. and the pictures are me in my "other" job
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Post by baggins on Mar 14, 2018 12:06:12 GMT
and the pictures are me in my "other" job Dear God.
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Post by countygroundhotel on Mar 14, 2018 12:34:12 GMT
f**k me the Club is not Dwane Sports it is circa 92% owned by them hence why they have to have the embarrassment of having an AGM. On the other forum you are arguing that Dwane Sports are funding the losses which are increased by the interest they are charging the club. The fact is Dwane Sports are providing the cash via the revolving credit facility to support those losses. They will be funding those losses the day they start writing off the revolving credit facility. Lap dogs really don't like facing awkward truths about their masters do they PP? 92% or 100% they can do what they want. Of the other 8% is there anyone significant other than The toothless supporters club? Maybe Dwane should get on any buy everyone out Did Nick Higgs and co, not fund the club in the shape of loans which accumulated interest? If NH wrote off loans or converted them to shares then yes he funded the club. Until DS show intentions to do that then no they aren't funding the club just providing the cash to keep it trading. Nice that you think the 8% of other shareholders should fund an office for a company they have no financial holding in. Keep lapping
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Post by baggins on Mar 14, 2018 12:47:06 GMT
92% or 100% they can do what they want. Of the other 8% is there anyone significant other than The toothless supporters club? Maybe Dwane should get on any buy everyone out Did Nick Higgs and co, not fund the club in the shape of loans which accumulated interest? If NH wrote off loans or converted them to shares then yes he funded the club. Until DS show intentions to do that then no they aren't funding the club just providing the cash to keep it trading. Nice that you think the 8% of other shareholders should fund an office for a company they have no financial holding in. Keep lapping What's the difference between funding the club and providing cash to keep it running? Genuine question.
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Post by peterparker on Mar 14, 2018 12:54:06 GMT
92% or 100% they can do what they want. Of the other 8% is there anyone significant other than The toothless supporters club? Maybe Dwane should get on any buy everyone out Did Nick Higgs and co, not fund the club in the shape of loans which accumulated interest? If NH wrote off loans or converted them to shares then yes he funded the club. Until DS show intentions to do that then no they aren't funding the club just providing the cash to keep it trading. Nice that you think the 8% of other shareholders should fund an office for a company they have no financial holding in. Keep lapping What is that 8% made up of? The Supporters Club who have a director on the board are presumably happy (Another argument in itself and if anyone is an SC member that is unhappy with the arrangements perhaps they should challenge the SC on it) and what a handful of people that paid £20 a share however many moons ago. If there is anyone else that is putting in significant funds in via ongoing loans or cash injection I am not aware and will happily be corrected as to who else is paying for the office.
Whether we need the office is another question again
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Post by lympstonegas on Mar 14, 2018 12:55:42 GMT
Club politics = migrants come flapping
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2018 12:58:44 GMT
Bristol Rovers 1883 ltd owns the Memorial Stadium. It isn’t a separate company and hasn’t been so for approx 15 years. So what is THE MEMORIAL STADIUM COMPANY LIMITED, Company number 03536554, still active on Companies House? Genuine question. It’s dormant.
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Post by Feeling The Blues on Mar 14, 2018 13:02:05 GMT
If NH wrote off loans or converted them to shares then yes he funded the club. Until DS show intentions to do that then no they aren't funding the club just providing the cash to keep it trading. Nice that you think the 8% of other shareholders should fund an office for a company they have no financial holding in. Keep lapping What's the difference between funding the club and providing cash to keep it running? Genuine question. Funding and Spending are two different things.
Funding is providing money but with the intention of getting it back with or without a return. When you buy a house a bank helps with the funding by giving you a mortgage. The bank doesn't own a part of the house but will expect the money it gave you (to fund the purchase) to be paid back over an agreed time with interest. If you fail to do this they will take the house off you, sell it and recover their funding that way.
If you had put a deposit of your own money towards the purchase cost you have spent this money on buying a house and you will only recover it when you sell the house.
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Post by yattongas on Mar 14, 2018 13:04:17 GMT
theres sod all we can do about it , so chill out and enjoy the footy .
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Post by baggins on Mar 14, 2018 13:13:23 GMT
What's the difference between funding the club and providing cash to keep it running? Genuine question. Funding and Spending are two different things.
Funding is providing money but with the intention of getting it back with or without a return. When you buy a house a bank helps with the funding by giving you a mortgage. The bank doesn't own a part of the house but will expect the money it gave you (to fund the purchase) to be paid back over an agreed time with interest. If you fail to do this they will take the house off you, sell it and recover their funding that way.
If you had put a deposit of your own money towards the purchase cost you have spent this money on buying a house and you will only recover it when you sell the house.
I see. Sort of. So, none of us who pay to go through the gate every other week need worry about it as it's not us liable for the millions we owe or need to come up with to keep us going? Thank crap for that. For a second there I was concerned about my season ticket renewal price.
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Post by countygroundhotel on Mar 14, 2018 13:32:13 GMT
Funding and Spending are two different things.
Funding is providing money but with the intention of getting it back with or without a return. When you buy a house a bank helps with the funding by giving you a mortgage. The bank doesn't own a part of the house but will expect the money it gave you (to fund the purchase) to be paid back over an agreed time with interest. If you fail to do this they will take the house off you, sell it and recover their funding that way.
If you had put a deposit of your own money towards the purchase cost you have spent this money on buying a house and you will only recover it when you sell the house.
I see. Sort of. So, none of us who pay to go through the gate every other week need worry about it as it's not us liable for the millions we owe or need to come up with to keep us going? Thank crap for that. For a second there I was concerned about my season ticket renewal price. Well we should if the lender requires payment, and I have no idea of DS intentions here, then the football club we all love either finds the cash to repay the loan or we go into administration. I think it's worth being concerned about but you and others may not.
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