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Post by contradiction on Mar 15, 2018 8:48:38 GMT
When DS took over the club we were on the verge of administration. I'm not sure exactly but I think our debts (including money owed to directors) was up around the 7-8 Million mark with the land valued at 10?? We were apparently losing 2M a year. So basically we had 2 years left before our debts out stripped our assets. So worse case scenario, assuming those evil AQs are here to asset strip as some of you nutters seem to think we are actually no worse off than we would have been staying as we were. If you listen to some the family are actualy increasing our debts. They are really not doing a very good job at asset stripping are they? My limited experience of being in a company that's being deliberately run down is the complete opposite of what the AQs are doing. You don't spend a penny, you run on skeleton staff, you don't fix stuff and you certainly don't increase your debts in any way. Indeed. In a previous AGM, Higgsy admitted they couldn't even afford a Chief Exec until we got a new stadium. It was why Boycey did all the marketing in his lunch hour, Higgsy did the player negotiations, the supporters club helped out, etc etc. It was a corner shop. Christ, they even sought a director to have IT experience. They did their best, but it was pitiful come the end and by the grace of god (and darrell) we got out of the Conference. We are now a professional club with professional people. Its a massive sea change and that takes investment (and initial losses), we have a medical & fitness infrastructure, under 23 development squad beginning to bear fruit, hugely expanded academy, marketing department and now even have a business development office in London. Lets hope that bears fruit too, because hopefully when we get a stadium to capture all the benefits of this work we really are ready to go places. I spot no asset stripping. In fact, the opposite. But hey, Gasinsider thinks we are on the road to oblivion - probably because of no more titbits from the corner shop. Pretty sure what I prefer.
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Post by contradiction on Mar 15, 2018 8:55:17 GMT
When DS took over the club we were on the verge of administration. I'm not sure exactly but I think our debts (including money owed to directors) was up around the 7-8 Million mark with the land valued at 10?? We were apparently losing 2M a year. So basically we had 2 years left before our debts out stripped our assets. So worse case scenario, assuming those evil AQs are here to asset strip as some of you nutters seem to think we are actually no worse off than we would have been staying as we were. If you listen to some the family are actualy increasing our debts. They are really not doing a very good job at asset stripping are they? My limited experience of being in a company that's being deliberately run down is the complete opposite of what the AQs are doing. You don't spend a penny, you run on skeleton staff, you don't fix stuff and you certainly don't increase your debts in any way. Indeed. In a previous AGM, Higgsy admitted they couldn't even afford a Chief Exec until we got a new stadium. It was why Boycey did all the marketing in his lunch hour, Higgsy did the player negotiations, the supporters club helped out, etc etc. It was a corner shop. Christ, they even sought a director to have IT experience. The 'commercial executive' was in fact the Stadium manager. That was the club. They board did their best, but it was pitiful come the end and by the grace of god (and darrell) we got out of the Conference. We are now a professional club with professional people. Its a massive sea change and that takes investment (and initial losses), we have a medical & fitness infrastructure, under 23 development squad beginning to bear fruit, hugely expanded academy, marketing department and now even have a business development office in London. Lets hope that bears fruit too, because hopefully when we get a stadium to capture all the benefits of this work we really are ready to go places. I spot no asset stripping. In fact, the opposite. But hey, Gasinsider thinks we are on the road to oblivion - probably because of no more titbits from the corner shop. Pretty sure what I prefer.
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Post by peterparker on Mar 15, 2018 8:55:17 GMT
When DS took over the club we were on the verge of administration. I'm not sure exactly but I think our debts (including money owed to directors) was up around the 7-8 Million mark with the land valued at 10?? We were apparently losing 2M a year. So basically we had 2 years left before our debts out stripped our assets. So worse case scenario, assuming those evil AQs are here to asset strip as some of you nutters seem to think we are actually no worse off than we would have been staying as we were. If you listen to some the family are actualy increasing our debts. They are really not doing a very good job at asset stripping are they? My limited experience of being in a company that's being deliberately run down is the complete opposite of what the AQs are doing. You don't spend a penny, you run on skeleton staff, you don't fix stuff and you certainly don't increase your debts in any way. Indeed. In a previous AGM, Higgsy admitted they couldn't even afford a Chief Exec until we got a new stadium. It was why Boycey did all the marketing in his lunch hour, Higgsy did the player negotiations, the supporters club helped out, etc etc. It was a corner shop. Christ, they even sought a director to have IT experience. They did their best, but it was pitiful come the end and by the grace of god (and darrell) we got out of the Conference. We are now a professional club with professional people. Its a massive sea change and that takes investment (and initial losses), we have a medical & fitness infrastructure, under 23 development squad beginning to bear fruit, hugely expanded academy, marketing department and now even have a business development office in London. Lets hope that bears fruit too, because hopefully when we get a stadium to capture all the benefits of this work we really are ready to go places. I spot no asset stripping. In fact, the opposite. But hey, Gasinsider thinks we are on the road to oblivion - probably because of no more titbits from the corner shop. Pretty sure what I prefer. To be fair, the office in London could be explained a bit better, because it seems people have the impression it is sat there doing nothing 99% of the time and the two employees are playing cards all day
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Post by contradiction on Mar 15, 2018 9:03:53 GMT
To be fair, the office in London could be explained a bit better, because it seems people have the impression it is sat there doing nothing 99% of the time and the two employees are playing cards all day Agreed. What I like about this lot is that they keep their cards so close to their chest. There are no leaks anymore. When there is real news its announced. Really professional. Trouble is, I think they may have taken that a bit too far and it gives people the chance to make mischief and sh*t stir, and they prob underestimated the obsession to forensically examine every tiny detail of anything. The PR and information coming out of the club does need better managing in my view
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Post by spiess1 on Mar 15, 2018 9:09:38 GMT
Yeh...and we paid for the cards too!
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Post by faggotygas on Mar 15, 2018 9:11:53 GMT
When DS took over the club we were on the verge of administration. I'm not sure exactly but I think our debts (including money owed to directors) was up around the 7-8 Million mark with the land valued at 10?? We were apparently losing 2M a year. So basically we had 2 years left before our debts out stripped our assets. So worse case scenario, assuming those evil AQs are here to asset strip as some of you nutters seem to think we are actually no worse off than we would have been staying as we were. If you listen to some the family are actualy increasing our debts. They are really not doing a very good job at asset stripping are they? My limited experience of being in a company that's being deliberately run down is the complete opposite of what the AQs are doing. You don't spend a penny, you run on skeleton staff, you don't fix stuff and you certainly don't increase your debts in any way. Indeed. In a previous AGM, Higgsy admitted they couldn't even afford a Chief Exec until we got a new stadium. It was why Boycey did all the marketing in his lunch hour, Higgsy did the player negotiations, the supporters club helped out, etc etc. It was a corner shop. Christ, they even sought a director to have IT experience. They did their best, but it was pitiful come the end and by the grace of god (and darrell) we got out of the Conference. We are now a professional club with professional people. Its a massive sea change and that takes investment (and initial losses), we have a medical & fitness infrastructure, under 23 development squad beginning to bear fruit, hugely expanded academy, marketing department and now even have a business development office in London. Lets hope that bears fruit too, because hopefully when we get a stadium to capture all the benefits of this work we really are ready to go places. I spot no asset stripping. In fact, the opposite. But hey, Gasinsider thinks we are on the road to oblivion - probably because of no more titbits from the corner shop. Pretty sure what I prefer. To be fair, that's not uncommon. In the company I work for the directors & joint owners are also the Chief Exec, CFO, etc. and we have a much larger turnover than Rovers.
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Post by singupgas on Mar 15, 2018 9:12:41 GMT
To be fair, the office in London could be explained a bit better, because it seems people have the impression it is sat there doing nothing 99% of the time and the two employees are playing cards all day Agreed. What I like about this lot is that they keep their cards so close to their chest. There are no leaks anymore. When there is real news its announced. Really professional. Trouble is, I think they may have taken that a bit too far and it gives people the chance to make mischief and sh*t stir, and they prob underestimated the obsession to forensically examine every tiny detail of anything. The PR and information coming out of the club does need better managing in my view People like being communicated to when they are invested in it. Its like having a wife that suddenly stops talking to you as much, normally means that something is wrong. Steady updates once or twice a month, surely that is not too much to ask - doesn't have to be all infrastructure talk, thoughts on recents games and some encouraging words.
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Post by faggotygas on Mar 15, 2018 9:13:52 GMT
Nope. Read up on FFP (its actually called something else, 'football league cost protocol' or something). People really need to understand this, so that this whole bollox thread can be put to bed: You can only spend 60% of your income on the playing budget. Management costs (Darryl etc), under 21 players etc are excluded. So its all about income generated. We generate income from 9000 crowds and bugger all else, due to the Mem. So for example lets say 9000 x £20 = £180k Plus say 500 meals x £40 = 20k. So for arguments sake, lets say we generate £200k per match. x 23 = £4.6 m per season x 60 % = £2.7m playing budget. Now lets say another club on gates of 6000. 6000 x £20 = £120k per match. But lets say they also generate 2000 x £40 hospitality =80k per match. Total income 200k per match So both clubs generate the same income and hence have the same salary cap, although we had 9000 crowds and the other club 6000. Crowds are only one part of it. This is very basic, and much more is included in income generation, but its why the club need a new stadium/expanded Mem and its also why they have a new Commercial Director and also a Business Development bloke in London, as the only way to become self sustaining long term is through income generation. The only way to get to that point is to invest (spend) on the infrastructure and set up that will allow it to happen. Which will incur losses short term (which is now). Either that, or just spend what we earn, and nothing more and get relegated and become part time. Once everyone grasps this fundamental point they realise what the owners are doing by 'evolution' Bye bye I understand the sentiment in this post but it is seriously in error factually. My facts are not fully accountable but more realistic. There are 5400 season ticket holders 2017/18 season. Split between pensioners 30% adults 50% youngsters 20% A pensioner season ticket holder in one of the stands pays £8.91p per game. Pensioner season ticket standing on the terrace pays £5.87 per game. The two main stands are sold out with a large proportion appearing to be pensioners. The above statement of 9000 x £20 therefore appears very generous income. Can't confirm other ticket prices as they no longer appear on the website but an offer of 10 game tickets for adults still on offer is for adult tickets at £14 per game. Thus the £180k income per game based on ticket prices appears to be way of the mark. Further in a sold out stand where I sit there are usually at least 6 - 8 empty seats within arks reach. Two of those seats have not had a single bum on them all season. No additional pints and pie money out of them is there? If you're actually trying to be accurate, then you are leaving out VAT
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Post by gashead1981 on Mar 15, 2018 9:19:42 GMT
When DS took over the club we were on the verge of administration. I'm not sure exactly but I think our debts (including money owed to directors) was up around the 7-8 Million mark with the land valued at 10?? We were apparently losing 2M a year. So basically we had 2 years left before our debts out stripped our assets. So worse case scenario, assuming those evil AQs are here to asset strip as some of you nutters seem to think we are actually no worse off than we would have been staying as we were. If you listen to some the family are actualy increasing our debts. They are really not doing a very good job at asset stripping are they? My limited experience of being in a company that's being deliberately run down is the complete opposite of what the AQs are doing. You don't spend a penny, you run on skeleton staff, you don't fix stuff and you certainly don't increase your debts in any way. Indeed. In a previous AGM, Higgsy admitted they couldn't even afford a Chief Exec until we got a new stadium. It was why Boycey did all the marketing in his lunch hour, Higgsy did the player negotiations, the supporters club helped out, etc etc. It was a corner shop. Christ, they even sought a director to have IT experience. They did their best, but it was pitiful come the end and by the grace of god (and darrell) we got out of the Conference. We are now a professional club with professional people. Its a massive sea change and that takes investment (and initial losses), we have a medical & fitness infrastructure, under 23 development squad beginning to bear fruit, hugely expanded academy, marketing department and now even have a business development office in London. Lets hope that bears fruit too, because hopefully when we get a stadium to capture all the benefits of this work we really are ready to go places. I spot no asset stripping. In fact, the opposite. But hey, Gasinsider thinks we are on the road to oblivion - probably because of no more titbits from the corner shop. Pretty sure what I prefer. 2 ways of looking at it though. We were run that way because we were losing money and we didn’t want to increase the debt we already had. Now the ALQs have come in and put all those things in place and increased our debt further in 2 years the previous board had done in 5. Now that debt has to be guaranteed or loaned to the club. So as long as that continues all well and good. But what gasinsider is concerned about is what if the debt outstrips the assets owned and the current board decide to no longer finance or underwrite the club? With no solid foundations for the future yet to be released, or by the sound of it even planned together with a training ground not even in the name of the club and currently a piece of waste ground, there are genuine concerns. All we have is the word that Wael is in it for the long term, but there isn’t any long term plans...so what does he exactly mean? Ok bumbling along under the last board was a painful process but our debt was certainly lower. I’m not entirely sure if the threat of immediate administration was there. That was something that rattled around over years which started black and gold campaigns etc. And that self prophecy turned into a complete nonsense. Currently, we are kind of better off than we were, but kind of not due to the heavy price of debt we are taking on.
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Post by Topper Gas on Mar 15, 2018 9:34:43 GMT
Indeed. In a previous AGM, Higgsy admitted they couldn't even afford a Chief Exec until we got a new stadium. It was why Boycey did all the marketing in his lunch hour, Higgsy did the player negotiations, the supporters club helped out, etc etc. It was a corner shop. Christ, they even sought a director to have IT experience. They did their best, but it was pitiful come the end and by the grace of god (and darrell) we got out of the Conference. We are now a professional club with professional people. Its a massive sea change and that takes investment (and initial losses), we have a medical & fitness infrastructure, under 23 development squad beginning to bear fruit, hugely expanded academy, marketing department and now even have a business development office in London. Lets hope that bears fruit too, because hopefully when we get a stadium to capture all the benefits of this work we really are ready to go places. I spot no asset stripping. In fact, the opposite. But hey, Gasinsider thinks we are on the road to oblivion - probably because of no more titbits from the corner shop. Pretty sure what I prefer. To be fair, the office in London could be explained a bit better, because it seems people have the impression it is sat there doing nothing 99% of the time and the two employees are playing cards all day Perhaps that's because we only have two London based employees, one in charge of ordering club stock etc, who seems as capable as Boycie, and the other our Sports Performance expert nobody has heard or seen for a couple of years.
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Post by bluestone on Mar 15, 2018 9:39:42 GMT
Indeed. In a previous AGM, Higgsy admitted they couldn't even afford a Chief Exec until we got a new stadium. It was why Boycey did all the marketing in his lunch hour, Higgsy did the player negotiations, the supporters club helped out, etc etc. It was a corner shop. Christ, they even sought a director to have IT experience. They did their best, but it was pitiful come the end and by the grace of god (and darrell) we got out of the Conference. We are now a professional club with professional people. Its a massive sea change and that takes investment (and initial losses), we have a medical & fitness infrastructure, under 23 development squad beginning to bear fruit, hugely expanded academy, marketing department and now even have a business development office in London. Lets hope that bears fruit too, because hopefully when we get a stadium to capture all the benefits of this work we really are ready to go places. I spot no asset stripping. In fact, the opposite. But hey, Gasinsider thinks we are on the road to oblivion - probably because of no more titbits from the corner shop. Pretty sure what I prefer. 2 ways of looking at it though. We were run that way because we were losing money and we didn’t want to increase the debt we already had. Now the ALQs have come in and put all those things in place and increased our debt further in 2 years the previous board had done in 5. Now that debt has to be guaranteed or loaned to the club. So as long as that continues all well and good. But what gasinsider is concerned about is what if the debt outstrips the assets owned and the current board decide to no longer finance or underwrite the club? With no solid foundations for the future yet to be released, or by the sound of it even planned together with a training ground not even in the name of the club and currently a piece of waste ground, there are genuine concerns. All we have is the word that Wael is in it for the long term, but there isn’t any long term plans...so what does he exactly mean? Ok bumbling along under the last board was a painful process but our debt was certainly lower. I’m not entirely sure if the threat of immediate administration was there. That was something that rattled around over years which started black and gold campaigns etc. And that self prophecy turned into a complete nonsense. Currently, we are kind of better off than we were, but kind of not due to the heavy price of debt we are taking on. Surely we were at the mercy of the last owners as well as our new owners. Not much difference other than the rate of debt being racked up as you point out. However the way the club was ran under the old guard it seemed we had squat diddly chance of becoming a self sustaining professional club whereas we seem to be more likely to become that with the new owners. With either scenario we need investment (stadium, development squad, training facilities, back office staff etc.) to become a self sustaining professional outfit. My view is that we seem to be making a lot more progress in that direction under the new ownership than we were previously therefore I think we are in a better place than we were. It's going to take time and I for one accept that, it's taking longer than I would ideally like but we were told it was going to be evolution and that's what we are getting imo. UTG!
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Post by peterparker on Mar 15, 2018 9:48:56 GMT
To be fair, the office in London could be explained a bit better, because it seems people have the impression it is sat there doing nothing 99% of the time and the two employees are playing cards all day Perhaps that's because we only have two London based employees, one in charge of ordering club stock etc, who seems as capable as Boycie, and the other our Sports Performance expert nobody has heard or seen for a couple of years. Why do we need to see or hear from our sports performance expert?
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Post by yattongas on Mar 15, 2018 9:50:07 GMT
When DS took over the club we were on the verge of administration. I'm not sure exactly but I think our debts (including money owed to directors) was up around the 7-8 Million mark with the land valued at 10?? We were apparently losing 2M a year. So basically we had 2 years left before our debts out stripped our assets. So worse case scenario, assuming those evil AQs are here to asset strip as some of you nutters seem to think we are actually no worse off than we would have been staying as we were. If you listen to some the family are actualy increasing our debts. They are really not doing a very good job at asset stripping are they? My limited experience of being in a company that's being deliberately run down is the complete opposite of what the AQs are doing. You don't spend a penny, you run on skeleton staff, you don't fix stuff and you certainly don't increase your debts in any way. Good to see there are others that can see the blatantly obvious.
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Post by contradiction on Mar 15, 2018 9:50:24 GMT
Indeed. In a previous AGM, Higgsy admitted they couldn't even afford a Chief Exec until we got a new stadium. It was why Boycey did all the marketing in his lunch hour, Higgsy did the player negotiations, the supporters club helped out, etc etc. It was a corner shop. Christ, they even sought a director to have IT experience. They did their best, but it was pitiful come the end and by the grace of god (and darrell) we got out of the Conference. We are now a professional club with professional people. Its a massive sea change and that takes investment (and initial losses), we have a medical & fitness infrastructure, under 23 development squad beginning to bear fruit, hugely expanded academy, marketing department and now even have a business development office in London. Lets hope that bears fruit too, because hopefully when we get a stadium to capture all the benefits of this work we really are ready to go places. I spot no asset stripping. In fact, the opposite. But hey, Gasinsider thinks we are on the road to oblivion - probably because of no more titbits from the corner shop. Pretty sure what I prefer. 2 ways of looking at it though. We were run that way because we were losing money and we didn’t want to increase the debt we already had. Now the ALQs have come in and put all those things in place and increased our debt further in 2 years the previous board had done in 5. Now that debt has to be guaranteed or loaned to the club. So as long as that continues all well and good. But what gasinsider is concerned about is what if the debt outstrips the assets owned and the current board decide to no longer finance or underwrite the club? With no solid foundations for the future yet to be released, or by the sound of it even planned together with a training ground not even in the name of the club and currently a piece of waste ground, there are genuine concerns. All we have is the word that Wael is in it for the long term, but there isn’t any long term plans...so what does he exactly mean? Ok bumbling along under the last board was a painful process but our debt was certainly lower. I’m not entirely sure if the threat of immediate administration was there. That was something that rattled around over years which started black and gold campaigns etc. And that self prophecy turned into a complete nonsense. Currently, we are kind of better off than we were, but kind of not due to the heavy price of debt we are taking on. Thats not an entirely unreasonable take on things. But I think Bluestone explains the position perfectly
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Post by abbeygas on Mar 15, 2018 9:52:15 GMT
Agreed. What I like about this lot is that they keep their cards so close to their chest. There are no leaks anymore. When there is real news its announced. Really professional. Trouble is, I think they may have taken that a bit too far and it gives people the chance to make mischief and sh*t stir, and they prob underestimated the obsession to forensically examine every tiny detail of anything. The PR and information coming out of the club does need better managing in my view People like being communicated to when they are invested in it. Its like having a wife that suddenly stops talking to you as much, normally means that something is wrong. Steady updates once or twice a month, surely that is not too much to ask - doesn't have to be all infrastructure talk, thoughts on recents games and some encouraging words. A Chairman' s report you mean. Good idea I can t see anyone slagging that off!
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Post by LJG on Mar 15, 2018 10:02:16 GMT
Agreed. What I like about this lot is that they keep their cards so close to their chest. There are no leaks anymore. When there is real news its announced. Really professional. Trouble is, I think they may have taken that a bit too far and it gives people the chance to make mischief and sh*t stir, and they prob underestimated the obsession to forensically examine every tiny detail of anything. The PR and information coming out of the club does need better managing in my view People like being communicated to when they are invested in it. Its like having a wife that suddenly stops talking to you as much, normally means that something is wrong.
Steady updates once or twice a month, surely that is not too much to ask - doesn't have to be all infrastructure talk, thoughts on recents games and some encouraging words.[/b[
Exactly. That's all I really ask of my wife too.
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Post by jungleboogie on Mar 15, 2018 10:04:04 GMT
When DS took over the club we were on the verge of administration. I'm not sure exactly but I think our debts (including money owed to directors) was up around the 7-8 Million mark with the land valued at 10?? We were apparently losing 2M a year. So basically we had 2 years left before our debts out stripped our assets. So worse case scenario, assuming those evil AQs are here to asset strip as some of you nutters seem to think we are actually no worse off than we would have been staying as we were. If you listen to some the family are actualy increasing our debts. They are really not doing a very good job at asset stripping are they? My limited experience of being in a company that's being deliberately run down is the complete opposite of what the AQs are doing. You don't spend a penny, you run on skeleton staff, you don't fix stuff and you certainly don't increase your debts in any way. Indeed. In a previous AGM, Higgsy admitted they couldn't even afford a Chief Exec until we got a new stadium. It was why Boycey did all the marketing in his lunch hour, Higgsy did the player negotiations, the supporters club helped out, etc etc. It was a corner shop. Christ, they even sought a director to have IT experience. They did their best, but it was pitiful come the end and by the grace of god (and darrell) we got out of the Conference. We are now a professional club with professional people. Its a massive sea change and that takes investment (and initial losses), we have a medical & fitness infrastructure, under 23 development squad beginning to bear fruit, hugely expanded academy, marketing department and now even have a business development office in London. Lets hope that bears fruit too, because hopefully when we get a stadium to capture all the benefits of this work we really are ready to go places. I spot no asset stripping. In fact, the opposite. But hey, Gasinsider thinks we are on the road to oblivion - probably because of no more titbits from the corner shop.Pretty sure what I prefer. I would say that this is bang on the money!
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Post by LJG on Mar 15, 2018 10:07:23 GMT
I wonder why the clubs solicitor was in attendance last night ? He doesn't go to games very often, so perhaps he was reminding himself of where we play. No doubt he's another dyed in the wool gashead. Mind you, looking at the accounts and what he charges, perhaps he could take us over and build us a stadium. Apparently he drives a Maserati with personalised number plates. That alone would get us the centre forward we need to play alongside Ellis. And be a lot more use to the club. So your narrative has changed from "They're not spending any money because they haven't got any" now has it? QUESTION MARK. I've seen windows less transparent than you.
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stuart1974
Proper Gas
Posts: 12,316
Member is Online
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Post by stuart1974 on Mar 15, 2018 10:23:40 GMT
Under NH it was debt we HAD to have, now it is debt we generally CHOOSE to have.
Subtle difference.
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Mar 15, 2018 10:26:40 GMT
Under NH it was debt we HAD to have, now it is debt we generally CHOOSE to have. Subtle difference. It's debt to themselves rather than Wonga that's less worrying too.
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