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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2018 13:12:42 GMT
Too grey for my liking. How do you define a "functional alcoholic" Someone who drinks much more than the recommended limits but is able hold down a job and maintain home? I cannot see that as a disease....outcomes are chargeable Exactly my point! Likelihood then that their will be no diagnosis on record. He / She should be charged |
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Post by stuart1974 on Aug 14, 2018 13:19:37 GMT
Politicians like to use smoke and mirrors when it comes to public spending, and are known to announce things several times giving a false impression, so I agree it won't happen. What would happen in the Ben Stokes case? Glad you raise the Ben Stokes case. As I understand it the person(s) he assaulted did not complain so no charge could be brought. He himself sought no medical treatment. So no financial charges could be made. Frustrating...But the jury found him innocent of affect, so be it. The point I was making was that it took a court case and presumably a lot of money to decide on blame. Who decides who is the aggressor? Is the person in A&E the aggressor or the victim, or are they jointly liable? Does the rule of Joint Enterprise apply? Events like that happen a lot and I am not comfortable asking a doctor to be judge, jury and executioner. It places them in an unfair position, concern over further violence and possibly contrary to their profession. Also, if the person involved is concerned over costs, they may not even go to A&E with possible side effects. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2018 13:26:31 GMT
Glad you raise the Ben Stokes case. As I understand it the person(s) he assaulted did not complain so no charge could be brought. He himself sought no medical treatment. So no financial charges could be made. Frustrating...But the jury found him innocent of affect, so be it. The point I was making was that it took a court case and presumably a lot of money to decide on blame. Who decides who is the aggressor? Is the person in A&E the aggressor or the victim, or are they jointly liable? Does the rule of Joint Enterprise apply? Events like that happen a lot and I am not comfortable asking a doctor to be judge, jury and executioner. It places them in an unfair position, concern over further violence and possibly contrary to their profession. Also, if the person involved is concerned over costs, they may not even go to A&E with possible side effects. The Dr only decides if the person is under the influence and the medical impacts as a result. If no police activity there is no debate. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2018 13:34:26 GMT
The point I was making was that it took a court case and presumably a lot of money to decide on blame. Who decides who is the aggressor? Is the person in A&E the aggressor or the victim, or are they jointly liable? Does the rule of Joint Enterprise apply? Events like that happen a lot and I am not comfortable asking a doctor to be judge, jury and executioner. It places them in an unfair position, concern over further violence and possibly contrary to their profession. Also, if the person involved is concerned over costs, they may not even go to A&E with possible side effects. The Dr only decides if the person is under the influence and the medical impacts as a result. If no police activity there is no debate. So, if you have a few beers and you somehow get hurt, you have to pay to get fixed? |
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Post by stuart1974 on Aug 14, 2018 13:56:02 GMT
The Dr only decides if the person is under the influence and the medical impacts as a result. If no police activity there is no debate. So, if you have a few beers and you somehow get hurt, you have to pay to get fixed? My mother in law likes a tipple. She has also fallen over a few times, being 85 it happens. If she fell and hit her head, would she go and get checked out or not bother for fear of being fined. Did she fall over because of the sherry or the old age, or just an accident. What if she didn't go for some time and sobered up? Does the doctor take a blood test? |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2018 14:08:17 GMT
The Dr only decides if the person is under the influence and the medical impacts as a result. If no police activity there is no debate. So, if you have a few beers and you somehow get hurt, you have to pay to get fixed? If you were so inebriated yes, absolutely. It's important not to use emotive language like "A few beers". How likely are you to get hurt after a few beers..It's pretty remote. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2018 14:10:23 GMT
So, if you have a few beers and you somehow get hurt, you have to pay to get fixed? My mother in law likes a tipple. She has also fallen over a few times, being 85 it happens. If she fell and hit her head, would she go and get checked out or not bother for fear of being fined. Did she fall over because of the sherry or the old age, or just an accident. What if she didn't go for some time and sobered up? Does the doctor take a blood test? Falling at 85 is pretty common. Also at 85 highly likely to not be on PAYE. Come on guys we are not talking about this, we are talking about the Friday / Saturday night specials which are costing a fortune |
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Post by Officer Barbrady on Aug 14, 2018 18:29:26 GMT
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Post by Officer Barbrady on Aug 14, 2018 18:48:44 GMT
This one is more interesting. Turns out I was wrong that the majority of healthcare professionals think charging for lifestyle related illness is ok. It was 44% in favour and 45% against with some others making up the difference. So brexit logic states that's a significant win for against. We do already charge for dental, prescriptions and specs of course. www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-38913394 |
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Aug 14, 2018 19:52:40 GMT
So, if you have a few beers and you somehow get hurt, you have to pay to get fixed? If you were so inebriated yes, absolutely. It's important not to use emotive language like "A few beers". How likely are you to get hurt after a few beers..It's pretty remote. Much easier to ringfence the tax on alcohol to pay for alcohol related issues. The more you drink, the more you contribute. The problem is that one Gov uses tax revenue to fund Muslim scumbag scroungers and the other uses it to fund tax cuts for their millionaire pals. |
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Post by aghast on Aug 14, 2018 22:13:45 GMT
Apportioning blame for injuries and diseases is totally unworkable.
There are millions of reasons why it could never happen.
What if my rock climber falls and blames the rope that snapped because it was sub-standard?
What if Nobby falls over in the street when drunk and he then claims the paving slabs were wonky?
And trying to bill people for some part of the cost of their treatment through taxation is a minefield.
What about the unemployed who pay no tax?
Do you just cut their benefits if they have treatment that an A&E doctor deems to be caused by their foolishness?
Total pie in the sky.
It's the NHS not the USA.
Educating people about alcohol, tobacco and drug misuse is the only way I can see forward, and the NHS already spends a huge amount of money on that.
How effective it is, I have no idea, but it is at least a workable attempt to stop people abusing themselves.
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Post by Officer Barbrady on Aug 15, 2018 14:58:41 GMT
Then charge them for illegalities. Drunk and disorderly, drug use. Why are you in ed the impression every alcohol admission comes with an injury? Many are just drunk and incapable (and cold).
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2018 15:22:45 GMT
Then charge them for illegalities. Drunk and disorderly, drug use. Why are you in ed the impression every alcohol admission comes with an injury? Many are just drunk and incapable (and cold). Yep. It's coming and quite right too. The status quo is just not acceptable |
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Aug 15, 2018 15:28:59 GMT
Then charge them for illegalities. Drunk and disorderly, drug use. Why are you in ed the impression every alcohol admission comes with an injury? Many are just drunk and incapable (and cold). Yep. It's coming and quite right too. The status quo is just not acceptable Not since Rick died anyway. |
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Post by Officer Barbrady on Aug 15, 2018 15:35:47 GMT
Then charge them for illegalities. Drunk and disorderly, drug use. Why are you in ed the impression every alcohol admission comes with an injury? Many are just drunk and incapable (and cold). Yep. It's coming and quite right too. The status quo is just not acceptable it's not sustainable, certainly. At the risk of mentioning the Evolution word on this forum, adapt or die basically. We have appealed to the general public better nature to make better decisions for too long and they continually don't and to a greater degree year on year. So, big decisions do have to be made or it will fail it's purpose. People in the streets chanting save our NHS but they don't want to change it to save it. Newsflash people the NHS isn't the best healthcare service in the world. Not even close. 30th in fact according to preventable deaths from the HAQ. The state run equivalent in France where you pay upfront and then are reimbursed in full is streets ahead on cancer, specialist and respiratory referral times and survival rates. In my humble opinion, save the NHS can't mean keep it the same because it's not working out. Privatisation has already happened. It's rare to find a non private service outside of ambulance and emergency departments. GP practices have always been private. Time to make big decisions I think. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2018 16:34:04 GMT
Yep. It's coming and quite right too. The status quo is just not acceptable it's not sustainable, certainly. At the risk of mentioning the Evolution word on this forum, adapt or die basically. We have appealed to the general public better nature to make better decisions for too long and they continually don't and to a greater degree year on year. So, big decisions do have to be made or it will fail it's purpose. People in the streets chanting save our NHS but they don't want to change it to save it. Newsflash people the NHS isn't the best healthcare service in the world. Not even close. 30th in fact according to preventable deaths from the HAQ. The state run equivalent in France where you pay upfront and then are reimbursed in full is streets ahead on cancer, specialist and respiratory referral times and survival rates. In my humble opinion, save the NHS can't mean keep it the same because it's not working out. Privatisation has already happened. It's rare to find a non private service outside of ambulance and emergency departments. GP practices have always been private. Time to make big decisions I think. Completely agree. We should not worship false idols, but concentrate on service and outcomes. |
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Post by scoobydoogas on Aug 15, 2018 16:40:25 GMT
This one is more interesting. Turns out I was wrong that the majority of healthcare professionals think charging for lifestyle related illness is ok. It was 44% in favour and 45% against with some others making up the difference. So brexit logic states that's a significant win for against. We do already charge for dental, prescriptions and specs of course. www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-38913394Were these the ones that had already received the free op?  |
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