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Post by stuart1974 on Aug 19, 2018 22:04:23 GMT
The AJIB is a small regional bank which does most of it's business with companies and retail customers in Jordan. It is not the huge conglomerate carrying out high value transactions all over the World as many fans have been led to believe. It has a market valuation of about £220 million, making the total Al-Qadi family stake worth about £68 million, and annual profits are around £18 million most of which is paid out to shareholders as dividends. The total Al-Qadi family annual pre-tax income from this source is about £5 million. The bank is not performing well and the share price has fallen 24% over the last twelve months. Revenues are declining and analyst comments include : "Over the last five years, AJIB-JO's return on equity has eroded from above median to below median among its peers suggesting declining relative operating performance." "Compared with its chosen peers, the company's annual revenues and earnings change at a slower rate, implying a lack of strategic focus and/or lack of execution success." "The company's equity capital investment program suggests it is under-investing in a business that is producing peer median returns" Studying the financial performance of the AJIB and listening to Wael's interviews over the past two years it has become clear to me that the purchase of Rovers was a dreadful mistake and the big question now is how are they, and we, going to get ourselves out of this situation unscathed. Wasn't aware AJIB business not doing well, but that may certainly explain why interest in BRFC may has declined, bigger fish to fry at home. And perhaps an indication that not everything they touch turns to gold after all - I believe they purchased HSBC's Jordanian operations, so maybe there was a reason HSBC were selling . . . I said at the time of the take over that I didn't care how rich Wael was, it was how rich his contacts were. Ownership of AJIB in itself is not liquid assets available to use in a stadium project nor does it confirm total family wealth. Whilst that is still my view, AJIB is Hani's day job and sanctioning major spend on us is probably not a priority, hence the treading water for 12 months or more. Reading Vaughan's thoughts on the other site about not wanting to sell up but looking for an investor in the property side still ties up with my own (very) uneducated opinion on what they are intending to do. Just hope that there is someone out there willing to jump on board. Typically, Opal and Sainsbury's both backed out due to market trends and financial issues, can lightning strike three times?
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Post by swissgas on Aug 19, 2018 22:48:20 GMT
Wasn't aware AJIB business not doing well, but that may certainly explain why interest in BRFC may has declined, bigger fish to fry at home. And perhaps an indication that not everything they touch turns to gold after all - I believe they purchased HSBC's Jordanian operations, so maybe there was a reason HSBC were selling . . . I said at the time of the take over that I didn't care how rich Wael was, it was how rich his contacts were. Ownership of AJIB in itself is not liquid assets available to use in a stadium project nor does it confirm total family wealth. Whilst that is still my view, AJIB is Hani's day job and sanctioning major spend on us is probably not a priority, hence the treading water for 12 months or more. Reading Vaughan's thoughts on the other site about not wanting to sell up but looking for an investor in the property side still ties up with my own (very) uneducated opinion on what they are intending to do. Just hope that there is someone out there willing to jump on board. Typically, Opal and Sainsbury's both backed out due to market trends and financial issues, can lightning strike three times? At the risk of sounding facetious Stuart .. Are we expecting someone to loan us say £25 million unsecured (Dwane Sports have the security) to rebuild the Mem and charge us say 5% interest over 25 years ? If so the repayments will be about £ 1.76 million per year. Or will the investor put up the £25 million for 67% equity in the club and hope to get it back when we reach the Premier League ? If so, who will be providing the working capital to get us there ? Alternatively, will the loan or 67% equity need to be £40 million+ so Rovers can buy land and build a completely new stadium ? We probably do need that lightning strike to transport us to the land of make believe
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Post by lpgas on Aug 20, 2018 0:24:46 GMT
I thought that they owned some Hotels too? I suspect any new development will include one. Of course if we stay at the Mem it will be Glamping Pods
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Post by Henbury Gas on Aug 20, 2018 0:30:53 GMT
Ah Henbury once again living up to his name. One minute supporting the board, another he’s trying to spread fear. Which of your amazing insider tips gave you this idea? Wael said not too long ago that we need a sustainable football club - not sure where chucking an investment of ‘advertising’ your own business fits into that... I asked a simple question, one you cannot answer for obvious reasons I rest my case
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Post by lincsblue on Aug 20, 2018 1:15:59 GMT
Correct me if i'm wrong (and i'm mostly that), But our "owners" are the owners of this bank ? You would think that the bank would have some form of advertising within the club, even a eighth page advert in the programme ? i have not found any to date and if true, must give us a true reflection and what the family feel about their little investment.... That's a big jump, from not advertising an overseas investment bank at a lower league UK football club....to being a true reflection of how the family feel about their purchase
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Post by Captain Jayho on Aug 20, 2018 2:22:57 GMT
If we play a couple of pre-season friendlies in Amman next season I'm sure they'd be happy to fork out to advertise in the matchday programme for those. Maybe that would make everyone happy!
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Post by swissgas on Aug 20, 2018 3:26:47 GMT
I thought that they owned some Hotels too? I suspect any new development will include one. Of course if we stay at the Mem it will be Glamping Pods The family own 27% of Mediterranean Tourism Investment Co which owns the Four Seasons Hotel Amman. It has a net asset value of about £60 million and current market capitalization of about £118 million but makes annual profits of less than £3 million.
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Post by Henbury Gas on Aug 20, 2018 6:27:29 GMT
I thought that they owned some Hotels too? I suspect any new development will include one. Of course if we stay at the Mem it will be Glamping Pods The family own 27% of Mediterranean Tourism Investment Co which owns the Four Seasons Hotel Amman. It has a net asset value of about £60 million and current market capitalization of about £118 million but makes annual profits of less than £3 million. Simple question Swissgas Do you think Our new owners have a better business knowledge of football finances than our previous owners and have the club progressed as a business under our current owners ?
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Aug 20, 2018 7:03:05 GMT
The family own 27% of Mediterranean Tourism Investment Co which owns the Four Seasons Hotel Amman. It has a net asset value of about £60 million and current market capitalization of about £118 million but makes annual profits of less than £3 million. Simple question Swissgas Do you think Our new owners have a better business knowledge of football finances than our previous owners and have the club progressed as a business under our current owners ? Tom Gorringe has but I believe that's more down to Steve Hamer than the AQs?
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Post by stuart1974 on Aug 20, 2018 7:15:40 GMT
I said at the time of the take over that I didn't care how rich Wael was, it was how rich his contacts were. Ownership of AJIB in itself is not liquid assets available to use in a stadium project nor does it confirm total family wealth. Whilst that is still my view, AJIB is Hani's day job and sanctioning major spend on us is probably not a priority, hence the treading water for 12 months or more. Reading Vaughan's thoughts on the other site about not wanting to sell up but looking for an investor in the property side still ties up with my own (very) uneducated opinion on what they are intending to do. Just hope that there is someone out there willing to jump on board. Typically, Opal and Sainsbury's both backed out due to market trends and financial issues, can lightning strike three times? At the risk of sounding facetious Stuart .. Are we expecting someone to loan us say £25 million unsecured (Dwane Sports have the security) to rebuild the Mem and charge us say 5% interest over 25 years ? If so the repayments will be about £ 1.76 million per year. Or will the investor put up the £25 million for 67% equity in the club and hope to get it back when we reach the Premier League ? If so, who will be providing the working capital to get us there ? Alternatively, will the loan or 67% equity need to be £40 million+ so Rovers can buy land and build a completely new stadium ? We probably do need that lightning strike to transport us to the land of make believe I think you just avoided the risk of sounding facetious 🤔 I wasn't thinking of the Mem rebuild or of one single investor, but a number of investors (for example, commercial property investors, builders with future tenure of the Mem, pension schemes) who would take a stake in a new build. The interest rates would be variable over short-, medium- and long-term which makes the off field returns vital. Nor would it be investing in a football club, it would be in the stadium only. It would need to be underwritten, if tje plan was for this to be by the bank it may now be a serious problem although some risk could be mitigated by use of the reinsurance market. Anyway, I have no real idea of their plans and this is simply a thought exercise. If Vaughan is correct and they are not selling, how could we do it?
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Post by stapletongas on Aug 20, 2018 7:17:19 GMT
What’s the point? ATM’s are too far away for most fans. Maybe put some tax deductible money in Rovers pocket ? Show the fans you care ? Most other owners do it ( Cardiff comes to mind) That was a joke!
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Post by oldgas on Aug 20, 2018 7:55:00 GMT
Correct me if i'm wrong (and i'm mostly that), But our "owners" are the owners of this bank ? You would think that the bank would have some form of advertising within the club, even a eighth page advert in the programme ? i have not found any to date and if true, must give us a true reflection and what the family feel about their little investment.... That's a big jump, from not advertising an overseas investment bank at a lower league UK football club....to being a true reflection of how the family feel about their purchase I don't understand too much about advertising, but isn't the point of it to reach your target audience and tell them what you can offer, and how it will help grow their interests, or make you realise you desperately want and need their product and/or services? I doubt that too many Gas heads are in need of the services of an Investment Bank in the Middle East, I know I don't, following my sale of oil portfolio shares, because I was concerned about the political instability in the Middle East following the Arab Spring!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2018 7:57:15 GMT
That's a big jump, from not advertising an overseas investment bank at a lower league UK football club....to being a true reflection of how the family feel about their purchase I don't understand too much about advertising, but isn't the point of it to reach your target audience and tell them what you can offer, and how it will help grow their interests, or make you realise you desperately want and need their product and/or services? I doubt that too many Gas heads are in need of the services of an Investment Bank in the Middle East, I know I don't, following my sale of oil portfolio shares, because I was concerned about the political instability in the Middle East following the Arab Spring! Fer gawd's sakes, don't tell me you then put your money into Venezuelan Oil ?
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Post by Topper Gas on Aug 20, 2018 8:03:24 GMT
At the risk of sounding facetious Stuart .. Are we expecting someone to loan us say £25 million unsecured (Dwane Sports have the security) to rebuild the Mem and charge us say 5% interest over 25 years ? If so the repayments will be about £ 1.76 million per year. Or will the investor put up the £25 million for 67% equity in the club and hope to get it back when we reach the Premier League ? If so, who will be providing the working capital to get us there ? Alternatively, will the loan or 67% equity need to be £40 million+ so Rovers can buy land and build a completely new stadium ? We probably do need that lightning strike to transport us to the land of make believe I think you just avoided the risk of sounding facetious 🤔 I wasn't thinking of the Mem rebuild or of one single investor, but a number of investors (for example, commercial property investors, builders with future tenure of the Mem, pension schemes) who would take a stake in a new build. The interest rates would be variable over short-, medium- and long-term which makes the off field returns vital. Nor would it be investing in a football club, it would be in the stadium only. It would need to be underwritten, if tje plan was for this to be by the bank it may now be a serious problem although some risk could be mitigated by use of the reinsurance market. Anyway, I have no real idea of their plans and this is simply a thought exercise. If Vaughan is correct and they are not selling, how could we do it? Vaughan's just repeating what a certain person apparently ITK has been repeating for at least 6 months to anybody who'll listen, even Wael hinted something was going on when he gave his recent interviews, but is another investor really going to come in and invest £30m+ on building us a new ground etc when the ALQ's can't raise the finance themselves?
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Post by oldgas on Aug 20, 2018 8:05:48 GMT
I know, a fool and his money!
I did think that Henbury might have responded to an advert by AJIB, but then reconsidered when I wondered how keen they'd be to be associated with a string of brothels in Cairo, Amman and every other Middle East capital!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2018 8:28:20 GMT
I know, a fool and his money! I did think that Henbury might have responded to an advert by AJIB, but then reconsidered when I wondered how keen they'd be to be associated with a string of brothels in Cairo, Amman and every other Middle East capital! Only one question to ask Henbury now we are armed with that knowledge.....Does he do Mates Rates?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2018 8:30:15 GMT
I think you just avoided the risk of sounding facetious 🤔 I wasn't thinking of the Mem rebuild or of one single investor, but a number of investors (for example, commercial property investors, builders with future tenure of the Mem, pension schemes) who would take a stake in a new build. The interest rates would be variable over short-, medium- and long-term which makes the off field returns vital. Nor would it be investing in a football club, it would be in the stadium only. It would need to be underwritten, if tje plan was for this to be by the bank it may now be a serious problem although some risk could be mitigated by use of the reinsurance market. Anyway, I have no real idea of their plans and this is simply a thought exercise. If Vaughan is correct and they are not selling, how could we do it? Vaughan's just repeating what a certain person apparently ITK has been repeating for at least 6 months to anybody who'll listen, even Wael hinted something was going on when he gave his recent interviews, but is another investor really going to come in and invest £30m+ on building us a new ground etc when the ALQ's can't raise the finance themselves? As has already been stated, if an Investment Bank are not willing to invest in a project (new stadium), how on earth are they going to convince anyone else to invest ?
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Post by stuart1974 on Aug 20, 2018 8:31:19 GMT
[/quote]Vaughan's just repeating what a certain person apparently ITK has been repeating for at least 6 months to anybody who'll listen, even Wael hinted something was going on when he gave his recent interviews, but is another investor really going to come in and invest £30m+ on building us a new ground etc when the ALQ's can't raise the finance themselves? [/quote]
There are a few rumours on that thread, not knowing the posters I've no real understanding as to which is more credible, if any, hence my hypothetical approach.
I do agree that Wael did infer something was going on, whether it actually comes to fruition.....
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Post by Gassy on Aug 20, 2018 8:31:32 GMT
Ah Henbury once again living up to his name. One minute supporting the board, another he’s trying to spread fear. Which of your amazing insider tips gave you this idea? Wael said not too long ago that we need a sustainable football club - not sure where chucking an investment of ‘advertising’ your own business fits into that... I asked a simple question, one you cannot answer for obvious reasons I rest my case It needs resting because it hasn’t got a leg to stand on fella. Lincsblue just summed up your post perfectly. I’m looking forward to your next thread/post of spreading rumours or trying to put fear into people. What you gonna say next time (that yet again turns out to be completely untrue)?
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Post by knowall on Aug 20, 2018 11:56:00 GMT
The AJIB is a small regional bank which does most of it's business with companies and retail customers in Jordan. It is not the huge conglomerate carrying out high value transactions all over the World as many fans have been led to believe. It has a market valuation of about £220 million, making the total Al-Qadi family stake worth about £68 million, and annual profits are around £18 million most of which is paid out to shareholders as dividends. The total Al-Qadi family annual pre-tax income from this source is about £5 million. The bank is not performing well and the share price has fallen 24% over the last twelve months. Revenues are declining and analyst comments include : "Over the last five years, AJIB-JO's return on equity has eroded from above median to below median among its peers suggesting declining relative operating performance." "Compared with its chosen peers, the company's annual revenues and earnings change at a slower rate, implying a lack of strategic focus and/or lack of execution success." "The company's equity capital investment program suggests it is under-investing in a business that is producing peer median returns" Studying the financial performance of the AJIB and listening to Wael's interviews over the past two years it has become clear to me that the purchase of Rovers was a dreadful mistake and the big question now is how are they, and we, going to get ourselves out of this situation unscathed. Wasn't aware AJIB business not doing well, but that may certainly explain why interest in BRFC may has declined, bigger fish to fry at home. And perhaps an indication that not everything they touch turns to gold after all - I believe they purchased HSBC's Jordanian operations, so maybe there was a reason HSBC were selling . . . Excellent summary by swissgas and Strange Gas - but I am sure this will not all end in disaster (for the Gas at least) - a bright future beckons
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