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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2018 11:48:35 GMT
I hesitate to say this, but
Do we put laws on our statute book which allow for extreme punishment but in reality only applies to a tiny minority of people but risks entrapping entirely innocent people with dire consequences?
On low level crime, we really do need to look at the correlation to the economy and public services. It's not an excuse, it's a fact.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2019 15:52:41 GMT
Common Sense: Next time you hear about the NHS being strapped for cash, just remember things like this.... "NHS offers IVF to gay men for the first time" IVF on NHS |
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Post by baggins on Jan 29, 2019 12:37:19 GMT
Common Sense: Next time you hear about the NHS being strapped for cash, just remember things like this.... "NHS offers IVF to gay men for the first time" IVF on NHSIt's free round Hugo's place. |
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Post by Officer Barbrady on Jan 29, 2019 12:51:07 GMT
Common Sense: Next time you hear about the NHS being strapped for cash, just remember things like this.... "NHS offers IVF to gay men for the first time" IVF on NHSI am struggling to get my head round this. It's not offering IVF to a gay male couple. It's offing IVF to a heterogeneous pair of donors, the male of which will be married to an adopting second male. Adoption seems far simpler to me, to be honest. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2019 14:12:11 GMT
Common Sense: Next time you hear about the NHS being strapped for cash, just remember things like this.... "NHS offers IVF to gay men for the first time" IVF on NHSI am struggling to get my head round this. It's not offering IVF to a gay male couple. It's offing IVF to a heterogeneous pair of donors, the male of which will be married to an adopting second male. Adoption seems far simpler to me, to be honest. The NHS should be there to fix people who are broken, and not pandering to this type of bollux ! |
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Post by Officer Barbrady on Jan 29, 2019 14:43:20 GMT
I am struggling to get my head round this. It's not offering IVF to a gay male couple. It's offing IVF to a heterogeneous pair of donors, the male of which will be married to an adopting second male. Adoption seems far simpler to me, to be honest. The NHS should be there to fix people who are broken, and not pandering to this type of bollux ! broken is a very broad term. Many people have their lives significantly affected emotionally and mentally with issues to do with conception and parenthood. Often, mental health issues turn to physical issues easily. Do I think there are more worthy things to spend the money and expertise on? Maybe yes. Do I think it is unworthy? No. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2019 14:45:52 GMT
The NHS should be there to fix people who are broken, and not pandering to this type of bollux ! broken is a very broad term. Many people have their lives significantly affected emotionally and mentally with issues to do with conception and parenthood. Often, mental health issues turn to physical issues easily. Do I think there are more worthy things to spend the money and expertise on? Maybe yes. Do I think it is unworthy? No. This could have a thread of it's own, but should the NHS be dealing with Mental Health issues? |
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Post by stuart1974 on Jan 29, 2019 16:02:26 GMT
broken is a very broad term. Many people have their lives significantly affected emotionally and mentally with issues to do with conception and parenthood. Often, mental health issues turn to physical issues easily. Do I think there are more worthy things to spend the money and expertise on? Maybe yes. Do I think it is unworthy? No. This could have a thread of it's own, but should the NHS be dealing with Mental Health issues? Why shouldn't it? It is just as important as any physical ailment and not treating it may lead to worse. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2019 16:10:47 GMT
This could have a thread of it's own, but should the NHS be dealing with Mental Health issues? Why shouldn't it? It is just as important as any physical ailment and not treating it may lead to worse. I'm just suggesting that Mental Health issues should be treated by some other body, and not the NHS. I am not saying that Mental Health should be neglected. In many ways I think we all agree that a serious debate needs to take place regarding the NHS, because as it is, it will always be a failing institution. |
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Post by stuart1974 on Jan 29, 2019 16:34:53 GMT
Why shouldn't it? It is just as important as any physical ailment and not treating it may lead to worse. I'm just suggesting that Mental Health issues should be treated by some other body, and not the NHS. I am not saying that Mental Health should be neglected. In many ways I think we all agree that a serious debate needs to take place regarding the NHS, because as it is, it will always be a failing institution. May be one for Hugo, I am just not sure how separating the two will save money or make it more efficient. |
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Post by Officer Barbrady on Jan 29, 2019 17:36:31 GMT
I'm just suggesting that Mental Health issues should be treated by some other body, and not the NHS. I am not saying that Mental Health should be neglected. In many ways I think we all agree that a serious debate needs to take place regarding the NHS, because as it is, it will always be a failing institution. May be one for Hugo, I am just not sure how separating the two will save money or make it more efficient. I think the two are so closely liked it is difficult to separate them out. Remember that we tend to think of mental health in isolation that can progress to physical illness but it just as often happens the other way around. Living with chronic conditions or those that do or indeed social care struggles are very likely to require mental health attention. The same could extend to social care I suppose. I have a controversial opinion of the NHS myself and believe it should be privatised (against the better judgement of the teenage socialist inside me). I have seen tremendous waste in NHS organisations. I do however believe that free at point of entry is essential. To be fair GPs, dentists and opticians have always been private and most of the rest is now anyway. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2019 17:44:00 GMT
May be one for Hugo, I am just not sure how separating the two will save money or make it more efficient. I think the two are so closely liked it is difficult to separate them out. Remember that we tend to think of mental health in isolation that can progress to physical illness but it just as often happens the other way around. Living with chronic conditions or those that do or indeed social care struggles are very likely to require mental health attention. The same could extend to social care I suppose. I have a controversial opinion of the NHS myself and believe it should be privatised (against the better judgement of the teenage socialist inside me). I have seen tremendous waste in NHS organisations. I do however believe that free at point of entry is essential. To be fair GPs, dentists and opticians have always been private and most of the rest is now anyway. Whenever you mention Privatization of the NHS you'll get the screamers mentioning the US system. There are of course many systems in the world that rely on Health Insurance. We have that here in Germany, and I don't see anyone not being treated. In fact, the Health System here is rated as Gold Standard. |
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Post by Officer Barbrady on Jan 29, 2019 17:55:04 GMT
I think the two are so closely liked it is difficult to separate them out. Remember that we tend to think of mental health in isolation that can progress to physical illness but it just as often happens the other way around. Living with chronic conditions or those that do or indeed social care struggles are very likely to require mental health attention. The same could extend to social care I suppose. I have a controversial opinion of the NHS myself and believe it should be privatised (against the better judgement of the teenage socialist inside me). I have seen tremendous waste in NHS organisations. I do however believe that free at point of entry is essential. To be fair GPs, dentists and opticians have always been private and most of the rest is now anyway. Whenever you mention Privatization of the NHS you'll get the screamers mentioning the US system. There are of course many systems in the world that rely on Health Insurance. We have that here in Germany, and I don't see anyone not being treated. In fact, the Health System here is rated as Gold Standard. Its far better for waits and outcomes than we are right now I seem to recall. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2019 18:12:12 GMT
Whenever you mention Privatization of the NHS you'll get the screamers mentioning the US system. There are of course many systems in the world that rely on Health Insurance. We have that here in Germany, and I don't see anyone not being treated. In fact, the Health System here is rated as Gold Standard. Its far better for waits and outcomes than we are right now I seem to recall. There is a huge difference when having to see a 'Consultant'. In the UK, you have your GP, who when necessary, refers you to a Consultant based in a Hospital. Here, you have the GP, but this is the difference, all of the 'Consultants' are not based in the Hospital's. They all have their own practices. If you have a Lung problem, you go to a Lung Doctor, who is not based at the hospital. Therefore, all of the medical/office space, staff, parking etc etc that is needed is provided by the Consultant's themselves and not clogging up the hospitals. Here, the hospital's are for operations and fixing people (A&E etc). The workload is spread out with the Consultant's being independent. |
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Jan 29, 2019 20:59:51 GMT
Why shouldn't it? It is just as important as any physical ailment and not treating it may lead to worse. I'm just suggesting that Mental Health issues should be treated by some other body, and not the NHS. I am not saying that Mental Health should be neglected. In many ways I think we all agree that a serious debate needs to take place regarding the NHS, because as it is, it will always be a failing institution. You couldn't be more wrong about treating mental health away from the NHS. People with mental health issues are probably the most vulnerable group of NHS users. If anyone should get free and state provided care it's people suffering from mental health issues. |
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Post by stuart1974 on Jan 29, 2019 21:57:41 GMT
I'm just suggesting that Mental Health issues should be treated by some other body, and not the NHS. I am not saying that Mental Health should be neglected. In many ways I think we all agree that a serious debate needs to take place regarding the NHS, because as it is, it will always be a failing institution. You couldn't be more wrong about treating mental health away from the NHS. People with mental health issues are probably the most vulnerable group of NHS users. If anyone should get free and state provided care it's people suffering from mental health issues. My wife suffers from panic attacks, took two hours to calm her down last night. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2019 22:10:49 GMT
Its far better for waits and outcomes than we are right now I seem to recall. There is a huge difference when having to see a 'Consultant'. In the UK, you have your GP, who when necessary, refers you to a Consultant based in a Hospital. Here, you have the GP, but this is the difference, all of the 'Consultants' are not based in the Hospital's. They all have their own practices. If you have a Lung problem, you go to a Lung Doctor, who is not based at the hospital. Therefore, all of the medical/office space, staff, parking etc etc that is needed is provided by the Consultant's themselves and not clogging up the hospitals. Here, the hospital's are for operations and fixing people (A&E etc). The workload is spread out with the Consultant's being independent. This may well be true on waiting times for Consultants. But the issue is self diagnosis. What laymen knows they have a serious lung problem? This is the system in the States, which ultimately means people turning up and incurring consultants costs for cold related cough. Under pressure the consultant/specialist then prescribes treatment to justify cost of consultation. Hence the cost per capita is higher than the UK, however you pay for it. The GP system is the jewel in the crown in the UK, the issue is the lack of capital investment at the next level and political ping pong on running costs of the same. |
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Post by stuart1974 on Jan 29, 2019 23:18:05 GMT
There is a huge difference when having to see a 'Consultant'. In the UK, you have your GP, who when necessary, refers you to a Consultant based in a Hospital. Here, you have the GP, but this is the difference, all of the 'Consultants' are not based in the Hospital's. They all have their own practices. If you have a Lung problem, you go to a Lung Doctor, who is not based at the hospital. Therefore, all of the medical/office space, staff, parking etc etc that is needed is provided by the Consultant's themselves and not clogging up the hospitals. Here, the hospital's are for operations and fixing people (A&E etc). The workload is spread out with the Consultant's being independent. This may well be true on waiting times for Consultants. But the issue is self diagnosis. What laymen knows they have a serious lung problem? This is the system in the States, which ultimately means people turning up and incurring consultants costs for cold related cough. Under pressure the consultant/specialist then prescribes treatment to justify cost of consultation. Hence the cost per capita is higher than the UK, however you pay for it. The GP system is the jewel in the crown in the UK, the issue is the lack of capital investment at the next level and political ping pong on running costs of the same. When we visited hospital the other week to discuss my son's prospective operation, we had one meeting with the consultant, anaesthetist, intensive care consultant, ward nurse and therapist. As they all worked in the same hospital the meeting was relatively easy to arrange and made decision making more beneficial. Without it, we would have needed several meetings (more time off work and school) probably talked at cross purposes and added stress and confusion. It was priceless to do it that way. For so its faults, and there are many I'm sure, we really benefit from it and I know other parents who feel the same. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2019 23:50:51 GMT
There is a huge difference when having to see a 'Consultant'. In the UK, you have your GP, who when necessary, refers you to a Consultant based in a Hospital. Here, you have the GP, but this is the difference, all of the 'Consultants' are not based in the Hospital's. They all have their own practices. If you have a Lung problem, you go to a Lung Doctor, who is not based at the hospital. Therefore, all of the medical/office space, staff, parking etc etc that is needed is provided by the Consultant's themselves and not clogging up the hospitals. Here, the hospital's are for operations and fixing people (A&E etc). The workload is spread out with the Consultant's being independent. This may well be true on waiting times for Consultants. But the issue is self diagnosis. What laymen knows they have a serious lung problem? This is the system in the States, which ultimately means people turning up and incurring consultants costs for cold related cough. Under pressure the consultant/specialist then prescribes treatment to justify cost of consultation. Hence the cost per capita is higher than the UK, however you pay for it. The GP system is the jewel in the crown in the UK, the issue is the lack of capital investment at the next level and political ping pong on running costs of the same. No, I just said that in Germany there is the GP first. He then refers you to a Consultant. However, that Consultant does not take up space/resources/medical staff/parking space etc etc at the Hospital. He has his own premises. It is not only the UK that have GP's as the first point of contact! |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2019 23:59:12 GMT
This may well be true on waiting times for Consultants. But the issue is self diagnosis. What laymen knows they have a serious lung problem? This is the system in the States, which ultimately means people turning up and incurring consultants costs for cold related cough. Under pressure the consultant/specialist then prescribes treatment to justify cost of consultation. Hence the cost per capita is higher than the UK, however you pay for it. The GP system is the jewel in the crown in the UK, the issue is the lack of capital investment at the next level and political ping pong on running costs of the same. When we visited hospital the other week to discuss my son's prospective operation, we had one meeting with the consultant, anaesthetist, intensive care consultant, ward nurse and therapist. As they all worked in the same hospital the meeting was relatively easy to arrange and made decision making more beneficial. Without it, we would have needed several meetings (more time off work and school) probably talked at cross purposes and added stress and confusion. It was priceless to do it that way. For so its faults, and there are many I'm sure, we really benefit from it and I know other parents who feel the same. I don't think you all understand what I've been saying. Stuart, it works that way here too where you get to talk to everyone beforehand. Yes, you have all those people at the Hospital here if needed. In the UK you see your GP, and anything else after that is at the Hospital. All the Consultants with their staff/offices/medical facilities everything in one place. Taking up hospital resources, space etc etc. Here in Germany, those Consultants will have their own practices away from the Hospital. Yes, they may refer you to the Hospital for treatment/operations, but they are not taking up the resources of the Hospital. The bottom line is that the NHS is always in crisis. The German Health system is Gold Standard. Maybe the NHS can learn a thing or two as to how others work? A better more efficient NHS would benefit everyone ! |
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