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Post by mehewmagic on Dec 11, 2018 16:47:02 GMT
Do / advocate if you owned a football club, or owned quite a serious chunk of one?
How would you run it? What is your ethos? Your vision? Your moral compass?
I’m talking top level things here, not, for example, to serve toffee apples at games in late October.
For me the basics might include:
- Transparency, especially from Board to supporters
- Supporter representation at Board level [not quite sure HOW but it could be arranged]
- Regular, free public meetings, where senior personnel of the club will be present
- Having a widely known, clear and transparent decision making process – e.g. how the Board of Directors runs, and what the staff structure is (organogram)
- Job vacancies to be advertised widely and then appointed in a competitive process
- Large amounts of community work
- Keeping matchday prices as affordable as possible, especially if terracing is available. Ditto for food, merchandise, and well, everything really. Don’t get me wrong, it’s OK to get as much as you can from others (e.g. sponsors, TV) but the day-to-day, game-to-game ‘experience’ for rank and file supporters must be kept alive and must be kept affordable. If those with more money want to have hospitality or pay more for extra special treatment then that can be made available if possible.
- At least some mascot packages per season to be free and /or raffled free to families who cannot afford to pay for this 'privilege'.
- VERY cheap tickets for children, especially under 11's, and especially on terracing.
- Encouraging supporters to be volunteers or paid employees.
- Avoid sponsorship by any activity that is generally and clearly regarded as inappropriate and negative, such as gambling, armaments and very high interest loans – TBH though, if it’s not allowed on a child sized shirt then we all need to wonder why that is…
- Have a healthy relationship with various supporter groups or organisations – involve them in the programme, media work, events etc. Do not try to ignore them or take over what they do if what they provide is a good niche.
Before anyone jumps down my throat:
- I’m not suggesting that our club doesn’t already do quite a few of these and do them well - I’m more interested in what you would advocate, rather than a critique of what I’ve written [i.e. what I would advocate] - I’m not suggesting these are all easy or will be perfect (e.g. getting prices right is always going to be a difficult one)
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Post by Gas_Quarters on Dec 11, 2018 16:57:31 GMT
Make sure the club is run sustainably, ie. not losing millions of pounds every year that is building up debt and puts the club's future at risk. Spend to your means, no matter what level you're at.
If you have a good cup run, then spend the money sensibly. If you sell a player for a good profit, then spend the money sensibly. Do not spend the money in the hope that these things will happen, and leave yourself in the sh*t when they don't.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2018 17:18:13 GMT
Make sure the club is run sustainably, ie. not losing millions of pounds every year that is building up debt and puts the club's future at risk. Spend to your means, no matter what level you're at. If you have a good cup run, then spend the money sensibly. If you sell a player for a good profit, then spend the money sensibly. Do not spend the money in the hope that these things will happen, and leave yourself in the sh*t when they don't. Unfortauntely this kind of level headed logic appears lost on the majority at the moment. Spending within our means translates to not backing the manager.
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Post by mehewmagic on Dec 11, 2018 17:22:40 GMT
Make sure the club is run sustainably, ie. not losing millions of pounds every year that is building up debt and puts the club's future at risk. Spend to your means, no matter what level you're at. If you have a good cup run, then spend the money sensibly. If you sell a player for a good profit, then spend the money sensibly. Do not spend the money in the hope that these things will happen, and leave yourself in the sh*t when they don't. Unfortauntely this kind of level headed logic appears lost on the majority at the moment. Spending within our means translates to not backing the manager. Uh oh, huge debate alert... Player x is sold for y, is manager z given all the money... or does it cover debts incurred by running the club (potentially) badly...
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2018 17:22:51 GMT
I'd form a limited company that BRFC are in debt to so when it comes to selling the club once stripped of assets I'd get a double pay-off. Oh wait...
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2018 17:28:53 GMT
Make sure the club is run sustainably, ie. not losing millions of pounds every year that is building up debt and puts the club's future at risk. Spend to your means, no matter what level you're at. If you have a good cup run, then spend the money sensibly. If you sell a player for a good profit, then spend the money sensibly. Do not spend the money in the hope that these things will happen, and leave yourself in the sh*t when they don't. Agree with everything in the first two posts. Spending within means is a great shout. Relegations and promotions come and go, but the club is here for ever (we hope!). Ambition, yes, but be realistic and build within your means. That's why for me, the concept of evolution not revolution is, in itself, not a bad thing. What has to happen along side it though is communication. Openness and honesty about the club's position and ambitions would also be a big thing for me in how a club should be run. The other is something that we partly do extremely well...community. Our community programme is superb and the work done with schools and hospitals is a credit to the club and all involved. I do think we can be better at the cheap tickets for kids though. Get them in for £1 every time. They have to bring an adult so the potential to make short term money is there but more importantly, some might just stay for the long haul. Good thread.
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Post by mehewmagic on Dec 11, 2018 17:39:37 GMT
Make sure the club is run sustainably, ie. not losing millions of pounds every year that is building up debt and puts the club's future at risk. Spend to your means, no matter what level you're at. If you have a good cup run, then spend the money sensibly. If you sell a player for a good profit, then spend the money sensibly. Do not spend the money in the hope that these things will happen, and leave yourself in the sh*t when they don't. Agree with everything in the first two posts. Spending within means is a great shout. Relegations and promotions come and go, but the club is here for ever (we hope!). Ambition, yes, but be realistic and build within your means. That's why for me, the concept of evolution not revolution is, in itself, not a bad thing. What has to happen along side it though is communication. Openness and honesty about the club's position and ambitions would also be a big thing for me in how a club should be run. The other is something that we partly do extremely well...community. Our community programme is superb and the work done with schools and hospitals is a credit to the club and all involved. I do think we can be better at the cheap tickets for kids though. Get them in for £1 every time. They have to bring an adult so the potential to make short term money is there but more importantly, some might just stay for the long haul. Good thread. I took my 5 year old to Chippenham Town the other week. Waived through. Totally natural to be going in free, with a paying adult. OK, so Chippenham has the space and mainly terracing, and I realise it's more complex if you have seats and are close to capacity, but in general the principle for me should be that accompanied kids should be as free as you can make it. And charging quite a lot for a young kid who really doesn't get it anyway, also seems so wrong. Some clubs have quite a few age categories, and some certainly do free or £1 for under a certain age.
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Post by Gas_Quarters on Dec 11, 2018 18:35:18 GMT
Agree with everything in the first two posts. Spending within means is a great shout. Relegations and promotions come and go, but the club is here for ever (we hope!). Ambition, yes, but be realistic and build within your means. That's why for me, the concept of evolution not revolution is, in itself, not a bad thing. What has to happen along side it though is communication. Openness and honesty about the club's position and ambitions would also be a big thing for me in how a club should be run. The other is something that we partly do extremely well...community. Our community programme is superb and the work done with schools and hospitals is a credit to the club and all involved. I do think we can be better at the cheap tickets for kids though. Get them in for £1 every time. They have to bring an adult so the potential to make short term money is there but more importantly, some might just stay for the long haul. Good thread. I took my 5 year old to Chippenham Town the other week. Waived through. Totally natural to be going in free, with a paying adult. OK, so Chippenham has the space and mainly terracing, and I realise it's more complex if you have seats and are close to capacity, but in general the principle for me should be that accompanied kids should be as free as you can make it. And charging quite a lot for a young kid who really doesn't get it anyway, also seems so wrong. Some clubs have quite a few age categories, and some certainly do free or £1 for under a certain age. Yes you have to have cheap tickets for youngsters for a few reasons: 1.) The obvious one first, they don’t earn their own money so the adult going with them has to pay for multiple people if they want to take multiple kids. One man(or woman) paying for a family of 4 just isn’t possible for some people. 2.) As you say, they are not always that interested so if parents have to pay a fortune for them to go and not really watch the game then they won’t bother. 3.) They are the future! Get as many of them through the door as possible so they become loyal supporters of the club as one day these kids will be adults paying the full price, travelling up and down the country to support their team.
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Post by Jomo on Dec 11, 2018 18:52:28 GMT
I completely agree with the sustainability angle, and absolutely onboard with the cheap/free kids tickets. Quid a Kid should be common if not every home game in my view. It's an investment into the cultivation of future generations of Gasheads and promotes the family aspect of the club.
Re: sustainability, I have no problem with this approach at all, albeit in order to continue with this approach at a respectable level in the pyramid, it requires some upfront capital investment in infrastructure. This falls out of the every day running costs and requires ownership to "speculate to accumulate" so to speak. This seems to be what the current owners are not willing to do. If I use my own personal life as an example, I have bitten the bullet to buy things that I struggled to afford in the short term, in order to make my life easier further down the line, both in my personal life and my work. As a club owner I would look to do similar.
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Post by faggotygas on Dec 11, 2018 18:57:58 GMT
I'd form a limited company that BRFC are in debt to so when it comes to selling the club once stripped of assets I'd get a double pay-off. Oh wait... Why do you think you'd get a double pay off?
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Post by faggotygas on Dec 11, 2018 19:02:19 GMT
Make sure the club is run sustainably, ie. not losing millions of pounds every year that is building up debt and puts the club's future at risk. Spend to your means, no matter what level you're at. If you have a good cup run, then spend the money sensibly. If you sell a player for a good profit, then spend the money sensibly. Do not spend the money in the hope that these things will happen, and leave yourself in the sh*t when they don't. Sounds great on paper, but what if you are up against similar clubs who do spend beyond their means? You can't pay the same wages as them, so eventually you get relegated, income drops, so you make cuts, so you get relegated again, you have to make more cuts... Unless you have so much money that you can make big capital investments, football ownership these days is a mug's game.
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Post by Gas_Quarters on Dec 11, 2018 19:03:21 GMT
I completely agree with the sustainability angle, and absolutely onboard with the cheap/free kids tickets. Quid a Kid should be common if not every home game in my view. It's an investment into the cultivation of future generations of Gasheads and promotes the family aspect of the club. Re: sustainability, I have no problem with this approach at all, albeit in order to continue with this approach at a respectable level in the pyramid, it requires some upfront capital investment in infrastructure. This falls out of the every day running costs and requires ownership to "speculate to accumulate" so the speak. This seems to be what the current owners are not willing to do. If I use my own personal life as an example, I have bitten the bullet to buy things that I struggled to afford in the short term, in order to make my life easier further down the line, both in my personal life and my work. As a club owner I would look to do similar. With what you wrote towards the end, I am very much of a similar nature. I am a cautious spender. But I’d rather spend something when I have it in order to set me up well in the future.
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Dec 11, 2018 19:20:31 GMT
If I was super rich I would be a total megalomaniac about it.
I'd name a stand after myself and I'd do a Jack Walker and buy unsustainable success.
I would not bother to communicate with fans.
I would do cheap kids tickets.
Good thread.
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Post by Antonio Fargas on Dec 11, 2018 19:24:27 GMT
I'd make us wear a green and black away kit.
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Post by LJG on Dec 11, 2018 20:36:25 GMT
I'd form a limited company that BRFC are in debt to so when it comes to selling the club once stripped of assets I'd get a double pay-off. Oh wait... I'd do a magic accounting trick so that when I say "My limited company has loaned my football club money" WHOOSH £2m per year is just invented out of thin air. Football club financed and it hasn't cost me a penny. Happy days.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2018 22:56:51 GMT
Make sure the club is run sustainably, ie. not losing millions of pounds every year that is building up debt and puts the club's future at risk. Spend to your means, no matter what level you're at. If you have a good cup run, then spend the money sensibly. If you sell a player for a good profit, then spend the money sensibly. Do not spend the money in the hope that these things will happen, and leave yourself in the sh*t when they don't. But bristol city are - £100m over the last several years and bristol rovers - £8m approx in recent years. And thats why they are miles ahead of us and have much better players. Other examples are plenty in clubs like bournemouth and brentford. The moral of the story seems to be run at a massive loss but get your owner to write it off and you will achieve success. There is merit in the sustainable theory but your automatically at a disadvantage if others are prepared to spend money over and above their income imo. Exceptions known to me burton,shrewsbury and walsall. Not sure if any successful medium to smaller clubs are truly sustainable?
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Post by stuart1974 on Dec 11, 2018 23:14:44 GMT
Get the infrastructure right, that is the training ground and stadium, on a sustainable footing with community hiring projects and non match day revenue supporting the repayments.
Strong youth and development ethos with coaches. Tie in with universities and higher education establishments with unconditional offers for scholars not taken on. Centralised accommodation for team building.
Regular Q&As with fans. Quid a kid offers and build up relationships with local schools. Look to get involvement in the wider region, not just North and East Bristol. Do some international liaising to build on our unique brand (e.g. the quarters, Pirates connection, the US team who used our logo, Sabadell, etc).
I wouldn't look to "buy" success until the above is in place.
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Post by Gasshole on Dec 12, 2018 0:10:22 GMT
Nothing. Apathy helpline 0800 36........meh
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Post by mjhgas on Dec 12, 2018 7:47:13 GMT
Sustainable football club = League Two/ Conference.
I'd take that rather than be in debt.
How many would put up with and for how long?
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Post by mehewmagic on Dec 12, 2018 9:38:55 GMT
Make sure the club is run sustainably, ie. not losing millions of pounds every year that is building up debt and puts the club's future at risk. Spend to your means, no matter what level you're at. If you have a good cup run, then spend the money sensibly. If you sell a player for a good profit, then spend the money sensibly. Do not spend the money in the hope that these things will happen, and leave yourself in the sh*t when they don't. Sounds great on paper, but what if you are up against similar clubs who do spend beyond their means? You can't pay the same wages as them, so eventually you get relegated, income drops, so you make cuts, so you get relegated again, you have to make more cuts... Unless you have so much money that you can make big capital investments, football ownership these days is a mug's game. But how have so many relatively poor / small clubs not been relegated (including our own in the mid/late 80s and actually went on to amazing success)? Because they got something very right, be it the mgr, coaches, style of play, youth system, loans, supporter involvement / tkt sales, whatever... It is being done all the time. Finding the method & sustaining it is the trick
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