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Post by stuart1974 on Feb 14, 2019 23:23:16 GMT
Had she been caught in the open during an air strike, I would shed no tears. However as things for IS are coming to an end then the risk of those who left this country filtering back and causing carnage here is real. I would rather we took them back, prosecuted them and put them away for years. She would also have her baby taken away (friend of mine is on the adoption list and would make a far better parent and bring up a baby that deserves to live in a safe environment, it's not the baby's fault and she has lost two others). This war, and IS, has claimed too many victims already, let's not become like them and hold up our humanity and rule of law proudly. Any dual nationals should have their passports revoked, though. Totally agree about the baby and how we should approach dual nationals in such a scenario. The problem with this case and those like it are what will she be charged with? Where do you find prosecution witnesses? Politely ask ISIS members to have a break from cutting people's heads off and chucking gay people off rooftops and hellp us uphold British justice? i predict a huge lump of taxpayer funded legal aid, no charges or a suspended sentence, brand new social housing and a nice benefit cheque each month. She will get support from a human rights organisation to keep her child. Then in five years everyone will be bleating when she gets mixed up in a terrorism act here. It would need careful consideration on a case by case basis. Anyone still at large should be vulnerable to attack but this particular example is in a safe camp. It would be part of a plea bargain, she has already confessed to membership which carried 10 years in return for being allowed back. If not, she stays. There are other laws that can be added. It can be done, given the will. The antiterrorism chief has stated before that it is those hardened fighters sneaking back that worries him, not the voluntary returnees. If this helps gather intelligence on others then it can only help. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2019 0:27:59 GMT
No it's not. I reserve my right to object to the current undemocratic system of monarchy. I will seek to over throw it without inciting violence or causing harm to others. Should I be stripped of my citenship as a result? I'm not entirely sure its appropriate to come up with a half-baked analogy like that, we're not talking about you, but if the words used by this female in her 'interview' are to be taken at face value (ahem), then she should. She should be prosecuted. You cannot strip a bona fide UK citizen of their citizenship because of their views (which is the point I was trying to make, as a UK Citizen). Any other reaction is emotive and has no basis in law. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2019 0:34:45 GMT
A case in point? The very laughable idiot Rees Mogg defending Churchill. Jacob Rees-Mogg comments on concentration camps flip.it/T8bdVt |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2019 13:30:18 GMT
I'm not entirely sure its appropriate to come up with a half-baked analogy like that, we're not talking about you, but if the words used by this female in her 'interview' are to be taken at face value (ahem), then she should. She should be prosecuted. You cannot strip a bona fide UK citizen of their citizenship because of their views (which is the point I was trying to make, as a UK Citizen). Any other reaction is emotive and has no basis in law. You simplify it too much.
There is a difference between having 'views', and using your British passport to join a terrorist organisation fighting your own country. Morally, the majority of UK citizens would want her stripped of it because of that, we all know it cant and would never happen.
Prosecuting her is what she's probably expecting as a worse case scenario. Couple years inside, kid looked after, meet a new husband inside. House when she gets out. More kids. Perfect.
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Post by midlandgas213 on Feb 15, 2019 14:03:25 GMT
It’s like being a ted you have cosen the wrong side so so you suffer the consequences stay away we don’t want you
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Post by jaggas on Feb 15, 2019 14:16:11 GMT
Totally agree about the baby and how we should approach dual nationals in such a scenario. The problem with this case and those like it are what will she be charged with? Where do you find prosecution witnesses? Politely ask ISIS members to have a break from cutting people's heads off and chucking gay people off rooftops and hellp us uphold British justice? i predict a huge lump of taxpayer funded legal aid, no charges or a suspended sentence, brand new social housing and a nice benefit cheque each month. She will get support from a human rights organisation to keep her child. Then in five years everyone will be bleating when she gets mixed up in a terrorism act here. It would need careful consideration on a case by case basis. Anyone still at large should be vulnerable to attack but this particular example is in a safe camp. It would be part of a plea bargain, she has already confessed to membership which carried 10 years in return for being allowed back. If not, she stays. There are other laws that can be added. It can be done, given the will. The antiterrorism chief has stated before that it is those hardened fighters sneaking back that worries him, not the voluntary returnees. If this helps gather intelligence on others then it can only help. Dozens have returned been given housing and benefits during their rehabilitation. |
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Post by jaggas on Feb 15, 2019 14:18:29 GMT
A case in point? The very laughable idiot Rees Mogg defending Churchill. Jacob Rees-Mogg comments on concentration camps flip.it/T8bdVtYour fellow left wing nutcase McDonnell escapes your wrath?? |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2019 14:19:42 GMT
Personally, I think she should only 'come home' in a body bag, but that's just me showing my Liberal side.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2019 15:04:47 GMT
She should be prosecuted. You cannot strip a bona fide UK citizen of their citizenship because of their views (which is the point I was trying to make, as a UK Citizen). Any other reaction is emotive and has no basis in law. You simplify it too much.
There is a difference between having 'views', and using your British passport to join a terrorist organisation fighting your own country. Morally, the majority of UK citizens would want her stripped of it because of that, we all know it cant and would never happen.
Prosecuting her is what she's probably expecting as a worse case scenario. Couple years inside, kid looked after, meet a new husband inside. House when she gets out. More kids. Perfect.
I think a key point here is were, or are, ISIS fighting the UK, or does the UK and the West generally choose to fight them in States where they have no jurisdiction, to protect our economic interests? |
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Post by midlandgas213 on Feb 15, 2019 15:13:37 GMT
Personally, I think she should only 'come home' in a body bag, but that's just me showing my Liberal side. Good call |
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Post by inee on Feb 15, 2019 15:31:18 GMT
If you take yourself outside of the law in this way then its a bit rich expecting it to help you. Also, just because something is law, that doesn't make it right. There are loads of examples of something being law but public outrage rightly prevailing and having the law changed. The most obvious is slavery. If someone leaves this country to go and fight against this country then tough sh**. I am first to the barricades against unjust law that depletes the interests of the unempowered. This situation is not the case. This lady may well have broken the law. Let the CPS argue that case. She is a UK citizen and should be tried as such. If indeed she has broken any law. If a UK citizen had gone to South Africa to bring insurrection against a Government that was openly supported by our Government during apartheid would that be a crime? After all our economic and political interests at the time were heavily vested in white supremacy. If there is evidence that she supported or advocated violence against UK society, bring the evidence to court and see her brought to justice. Anything else is guilty by supposition through a kangaroo court. We are better than that. The answer is yes those went abroad to fight against isis , were arrested arrested and charged on their return to the uk ,however common sense prevailed and the crown offered no evidence, so it has been tried just to appease a bunch of terrorist scum |
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Post by inee on Feb 15, 2019 15:33:55 GMT
It would need careful consideration on a case by case basis. Anyone still at large should be vulnerable to attack but this particular example is in a safe camp. It would be part of a plea bargain, she has already confessed to membership which carried 10 years in return for being allowed back. If not, she stays. There are other laws that can be added. It can be done, given the will. The antiterrorism chief has stated before that it is those hardened fighters sneaking back that worries him, not the voluntary returnees. If this helps gather intelligence on others then it can only help. Dozens have returned been given housing and benefits during their rehabilitation. Shhhhhhhhh don't let the truth get in the way of our country hating gashead friend |
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Post by inee on Feb 15, 2019 15:36:20 GMT
A case in point? The very laughable idiot Rees Mogg defending Churchill. Jacob Rees-Mogg comments on concentration camps flip.it/T8bdVtIn what context are you using the words concentration camps as you know it has very different meanings in hoe the words are used,you probably think internment camps are a british invention did you also know more whites died in the internment camps than blacks during that war |
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Post by inee on Feb 15, 2019 15:44:09 GMT
You simplify it too much.
There is a difference between having 'views', and using your British passport to join a terrorist organisation fighting your own country. Morally, the majority of UK citizens would want her stripped of it because of that, we all know it cant and would never happen.
Prosecuting her is what she's probably expecting as a worse case scenario. Couple years inside, kid looked after, meet a new husband inside. House when she gets out. More kids. Perfect.
I think a key point here is were, or are, ISIS fighting the UK, or does the UK and the West generally choose to fight them in States where they have no jurisdiction, to protect our economic interests? Dear oh dear no one has committed any act of terrorism on british soil in the name of isis ,i didn't realise your depth of hatred for those killed in isis related attacks in the uk ,don't try and justify your post by saying you didn't mean it to read that way, you vilify jaggas for his opinions but openly type a post in defence of isis ,the only difference between your and his posts is you hate the people who were born and bred here. |
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Post by stuart1974 on Feb 15, 2019 15:59:27 GMT
Dozens have returned been given housing and benefits during their rehabilitation. Shhhhhhhhh don't let the truth get in the way of our country hating gashead friend Was that aimed at me inee? I thought you knew me better than that. |
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Post by inee on Feb 15, 2019 16:01:55 GMT
Had she been caught in the open during an air strike, I would shed no tears. However as things for IS are coming to an end then the risk of those who left this country filtering back and causing carnage here is real. I would rather we took them back, prosecuted them and put them away for years. She would also have her baby taken away (friend of mine is on the adoption list and would make a far better parent and bring up a baby that deserves to live in a safe environment, it's not the baby's fault and she has lost two others). This war, and IS, has claimed too many victims already, let's not become like them and hold up our humanity and rule of law proudly. Any dual nationals should have their passports revoked, though. It should be left where it is to face trial in the countries it actively helped to destroy . let it face justice according to the religion it so desperately believes in should be the best thing in this instance. however the lily livered sheep will say this is unfair , then sprout out some bollocks about how shes british so should be tried here sorry but if your stupid enough to break laws in other countries then you should be prepared to take the justice given out over there however bad it seem ,shes a good case compulsory sterilisation |
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Post by inee on Feb 15, 2019 16:03:57 GMT
Shhhhhhhhh don't let the truth get in the way of our country hating gashead friend Was that aimed at me inee? I thought you knew me better than that. no stu it wasn't aimed at you ,you know if it was i would've addressed you directly |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2019 16:38:33 GMT
I think a key point here is were, or are, ISIS fighting the UK, or does the UK and the West generally choose to fight them in States where they have no jurisdiction, to protect our economic interests? Dear oh dear no one has committed any act of terrorism on british soil in the name of isis ,i didn't realise your depth of hatred for those killed in isis related attacks in the uk ,don't try and justify your post by saying you didn't mean it to read that way, you vilify jaggas for his opinions but openly type a post in defence of isis ,the only difference between your and his posts is you hate the people who were born and bred here. Much of the terrorism within the UK has been promoted and perpetrated by followers within Mosques funded in no small part by Saudi Arabia. ISIS will always claim responsibility as it's great propoganda. We are not at war with Saudi Arabia, so the hypocrisy is stunning. Your conflation of my post as in someway supporting ISIS is laughable. But you didn't answer the question. Are we, the West, fighting ISIS or defending our economic interests? |
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Post by stuart1974 on Feb 15, 2019 16:39:49 GMT
Was that aimed at me inee? I thought you knew me better than that. no stu it wasn't aimed at you ,you know if it was i would've addressed you directly Glad to know. Personally I don't think anyone on here hates our country, despite the narrative some try to portray. We just have a different view on what is best. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2019 16:44:37 GMT
I think a key point here is were, or are, ISIS fighting the UK, or does the UK and the West generally choose to fight them in States where they have no jurisdiction, to protect our economic interests? Dear oh dear no one has committed any act of terrorism on british soil in the name of isis ,i didn't realise your depth of hatred for those killed in isis related attacks in the uk ,don't try and justify your post by saying you didn't mean it to read that way, you vilify jaggas for his opinions but openly type a post in defence of isis ,the only difference between your and his posts is you hate the people who were born and bred here. Glad someone replied.
I always think because certain people in this country have never had to deal with a family member being killed or maimed in a terrorist attack in the UK, its all too easy to get attention spouting apologist views on social media.
If, heaven forbid, they should ever have to experience this, I don't think they'd be anywhere to be seen.
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