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Post by Antonio Fargas on Dec 28, 2019 16:57:56 GMT
If I said it worked for Rovers before (and Brighton) you may say the circumstances were different then because the situation was forced upon us. My response would be that it makes far more sense to avoid an unpleasant situation happening than wait for it to be forced upon us. Most Gasheads wouldn’t mind putting up with the pain of having to travel a long way to home games if they could view a webcam of the stadium under construction and knew in a few years time our club would be transformed into serious Championship contenders or maybe more. Your suggestion on p272 suggests once we've sold the Mem we then go to the market looking for investment for a new stadium, there's no suggestion we don't agree to groundshare before finance is already in place for a new stadium. If there was a plan to move out of the Mem whilst the FM stadium is being built then that's a different issue. I can see why it might be an idea to move from the Mem site while they build a stadium on the Mem site. Not sure it makes sense to move from the Mem site while they build a stadium somewhere else. What would be the point of that?
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Post by Topper Gas on Dec 28, 2019 17:23:18 GMT
Your suggestion on p272 suggests once we've sold the Mem we then go to the market looking for investment for a new stadium, there's no suggestion we don't agree to groundshare before finance is already in place for a new stadium. If there was a plan to move out of the Mem whilst the FM stadium is being built then that's a different issue. I can see why it might be an idea to move from the Mem site while they build a stadium on the Mem site. Not sure it makes sense to move from the Mem site while they build a stadium somewhere else. What would be the point of that? SwissG's suggestion was so that the ALQ's got paid off a couple of years early, although I doubt the ALQ's are that desperate to get their hands on the proceeds from the sale of the ground.
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Post by daniel300380 on Dec 28, 2019 17:24:43 GMT
Your suggestion on p272 suggests once we've sold the Mem we then go to the market looking for investment for a new stadium, there's no suggestion we don't agree to groundshare before finance is already in place for a new stadium. If there was a plan to move out of the Mem whilst the FM stadium is being built then that's a different issue. I can see why it might be an idea to move from the Mem site while they build a stadium on the Mem site. Not sure it makes sense to move from the Mem site while they build a stadium somewhere else. What would be the point of that? Think we would only do that, if a potential buyer of the mem land, wanted the site before a certain date. So as long as all contacts were signed and the building of a new stadium was going ahead, we might share then. Would be a worry though, incase a deal fell through, line last time.
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Post by swissgas on Dec 28, 2019 17:36:25 GMT
Your suggestion on p272 suggests once we've sold the Mem we then go to the market looking for investment for a new stadium, there's no suggestion we don't agree to groundshare before finance is already in place for a new stadium. If there was a plan to move out of the Mem whilst the FM stadium is being built then that's a different issue. I can see why it might be an idea to move from the Mem site while they build a stadium on the Mem site. Not sure it makes sense to move from the Mem site while they build a stadium somewhere else. What would be the point of that? We must face the high likelihood that the Al-Qadi family want their money back and the fact that the only way they will get it is by selling the Mem for development. Any plan for the future will involve some risk but we can eliminate a lot of that by accepting we will be leasing a ground and grabbing the opportunity which the Mayor has given us by making a sports stadium part of his initial vision for the Fruit Market development. The developers will be reluctant to lease a valuable building to an entity which is financially insecure so I am suggesting a restructuring to give the new Rovers such security and which will also provide the cash so that the football club can do justice to its new facility. “What if Rovers agree to move out of the Mem but then can’t get new investors so the Fruit Market Stadium falls through ? “ Yes, there is is a risk but it is not as big as it looks purely because big players like Deloitte, AIM listed companies and City Councils tend to make things happen once they put their minds to it. But, IMO, they will only put their minds to it if Rovers fans show they want it.
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Post by Antonio Fargas on Dec 28, 2019 17:44:55 GMT
I can see why it might be an idea to move from the Mem site while they build a stadium on the Mem site. Not sure it makes sense to move from the Mem site while they build a stadium somewhere else. What would be the point of that? We must face the high likelihood that the Al-Qadi family want their money back and the fact that the only way they will get it is by selling the Mem for development. Any plan for the future will involve some risk but we can eliminate a lot of that by accepting we will be leasing a ground and grabbing the opportunity which the Mayor has given us by making a sports stadium part of his initial vision for the Fruit Market development. The developers will be reluctant to lease a valuable building to an entity which is financially insecure so I am suggesting a restructuring to give the new Rovers such security and which will also provide the cash so that the football club can do justice to its new facility. “What if Rovers agree to move out of the Mem but then can’t get new investors so the Fruit Market Stadium falls through ? “ Yes, there is is a risk but it is not as big as it looks purely because big players like Deloitte, AIM listed companies and City Councils tend to make things happen once they put their minds to it. But, IMO, they will only put their minds to it if Rovers fans show they want it. Utterly baffling to me that a Rovers fan might think that selling our stadium and renting/leasing our home could be a good idea.
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Post by toddy1953 on Dec 28, 2019 17:48:54 GMT
I can see why it might be an idea to move from the Mem site while they build a stadium on the Mem site. Not sure it makes sense to move from the Mem site while they build a stadium somewhere else. What would be the point of that? Think we would only do that, if a potential buyer of the mem land, wanted the site before a certain date. So as long as all contacts were signed and the building of a new stadium was going ahead, we might share then. Would be a worry though, incase a deal fell through, line last time. Spot on. With our history of not getting stadium build over the line, I cannot see the point, furthermore I wouldn’t trust anyone to deliver. If someone is in that much of a hurry to buy the Mem site, let them build a new stadium first. If the AlQadi’s want their money back to recover their cost or to enable them to sell the club, why not charge rent for the the Mem until the ‘new stadium’ is built. I can’t see ground sharing would be to the benefit of Bristol Rovers, even if ground share was cheaper, surely the gate would be half of what we would get at the Mem. All the planning permission for housing or whatever can run alongside stadium planning & build.
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Post by swissgas on Dec 28, 2019 17:49:09 GMT
We must face the high likelihood that the Al-Qadi family want their money back and the fact that the only way they will get it is by selling the Mem for development. Any plan for the future will involve some risk but we can eliminate a lot of that by accepting we will be leasing a ground and grabbing the opportunity which the Mayor has given us by making a sports stadium part of his initial vision for the Fruit Market development. The developers will be reluctant to lease a valuable building to an entity which is financially insecure so I am suggesting a restructuring to give the new Rovers such security and which will also provide the cash so that the football club can do justice to its new facility. “What if Rovers agree to move out of the Mem but then can’t get new investors so the Fruit Market Stadium falls through ? “ Yes, there is is a risk but it is not as big as it looks purely because big players like Deloitte, AIM listed companies and City Councils tend to make things happen once they put their minds to it. But, IMO, they will only put their minds to it if Rovers fans show they want it. Utterly baffling to me that a Rovers fan might think that selling our stadium and renting/leasing our home could be a good idea. Firstly, we probably have no choice. Secondly, whether you own or lease the building you operate from has no impact on how successful your business is.
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Post by Antonio Fargas on Dec 28, 2019 17:57:15 GMT
Utterly baffling to me that a Rovers fan might think that selling our stadium and renting/leasing our home could be a good idea. Firstly, we probably have no choice. Secondly, whether you own or lease the building you operate from has no impact on how successful your business is. Firstly, that's your opinion with no evidence that I'm aware of. Secondly, it depends on the terms of the lease. Running a business from a bog-standard building where there are hundreds of competitive units to lease close to your customer base is one thing, requiring a specialised building of which there are approximately zero competitive units within thirty miles of your customers is another.
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Post by Topper Gas on Dec 28, 2019 17:58:09 GMT
Utterly baffling to me that a Rovers fan might think that selling our stadium and renting/leasing our home could be a good idea. Firstly, we probably have no choice. Secondly, whether you own or lease the building you operate from has no impact on how successful your business is. Not sure that's strictly true when it comes to EFL clubs who all tend to own their own grounds unless they are owned by local councils. I guess somebody once thought it would be a good idea if Coventry leased their new ground. Although leasing our new ground and groundsharing outside of Bristol whilst a new stadium is built seem two different issues. Until the developers actually agree a deal to purchase the land this all seems immaterial in any event.
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Post by swissgas on Dec 28, 2019 18:20:03 GMT
Firstly, we probably have no choice. Secondly, whether you own or lease the building you operate from has no impact on how successful your business is. Firstly, that's your opinion with no evidence that I'm aware of. Secondly, it depends on the terms of the lease. Running a business from a bog-standard building where there are hundreds of competitive units to lease close to your customer base is one thing, requiring a specialised building of which there are approximately zero competitive units within thirty miles of your customers is another. Anyone is entitled to believe the Al-Qadi family are not trying to sell the club/Mem so they can get their money back but those that do are looking increasingly like the fans who, right up till the end, believed Nick Higgs would beat Sainsburys and get the UWE Stadium built. The Fruit Market Stadium would be a purpose built facility incorporating everything needed for a Championship level football club to succeed. So the club’s cash could go into developing the team and coaching structure to make sure it did succeed.
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Post by Antonio Fargas on Dec 28, 2019 18:39:55 GMT
Firstly, that's your opinion with no evidence that I'm aware of. Secondly, it depends on the terms of the lease. Running a business from a bog-standard building where there are hundreds of competitive units to lease close to your customer base is one thing, requiring a specialised building of which there are approximately zero competitive units within thirty miles of your customers is another. Anyone is entitled to believe the Al-Qadi family are not trying to sell the club/Mem so they can get their money back but those that do are looking increasingly like the fans who, right up till the end, believed Nick Higgs would beat Sainsburys and get the UWE Stadium built. The Fruit Market Stadium would be a purpose built facility incorporating everything needed for a Championship level football club to succeed. So the club’s cash could go into developing the team and coaching structure to make sure it did succeed. Not sure what that's got to do with Nick Higgs, but no one doubts that Dwane might sell, we're only talking about the order in which things might happen. Still don't understand why we would have to sell the Mem first. Surely if the deal is about BRFC moving then it makes sense to move after the stadium is built. No one (I mean exactly no one) involved or potentially involved would benefit from BRFC being homeless for a few years; that just loses money and makes any potential deal worse for everyone, even if it was legal. Not sure what the reason might be for selling first and moving away then moving back which you keep repeating, but never bother to elucidate.
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Post by lpgas on Dec 28, 2019 18:48:11 GMT
After 278 PAGES. Who knows?
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Post by lpgas on Dec 28, 2019 18:49:59 GMT
Anyone is entitled to believe the Al-Qadi family are not trying to sell the club/Mem so they can get their money back but those that do are looking increasingly like the fans who, right up till the end, believed Nick Higgs would beat Sainsburys and get the UWE Stadium built. The Fruit Market Stadium would be a purpose built facility incorporating everything needed for a Championship level football club to succeed. So the club’s cash could go into developing the team and coaching structure to make sure it did succeed. Not sure what that's got to do with Nick Higgs, but no one doubts that Dwane might sell, we're only talking about the order in which things might happen. Still don't understand why we would have to sell the Mem first. Surely if the deal is about BRFC moving then it makes sense to move after the stadium is built. No one (I mean exactly no one) involved or potentially involved would benefit from BRFC being homeless for a few years; that just loses money and makes any potential deal worse for everyone, even if it was legal. Not sure what the reason might be for selling first and moving away then moving back which you keep repeating, but never bother to elucidate. Better to sell the Mem as the last thing. The land value could rise whilst a stadium is being built
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Post by Antonio Fargas on Dec 28, 2019 18:58:15 GMT
Not sure what that's got to do with Nick Higgs, but no one doubts that Dwane might sell, we're only talking about the order in which things might happen. Still don't understand why we would have to sell the Mem first. Surely if the deal is about BRFC moving then it makes sense to move after the stadium is built. No one (I mean exactly no one) involved or potentially involved would benefit from BRFC being homeless for a few years; that just loses money and makes any potential deal worse for everyone, even if it was legal. Not sure what the reason might be for selling first and moving away then moving back which you keep repeating, but never bother to elucidate. Better to sell the Mem as the last thing. The land value could rise whilst a stadium is being built Plus playing somewhere else in that time would cost us a shed load of money, too.
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Post by swissgas on Dec 28, 2019 19:22:31 GMT
Anyone is entitled to believe the Al-Qadi family are not trying to sell the club/Mem so they can get their money back but those that do are looking increasingly like the fans who, right up till the end, believed Nick Higgs would beat Sainsburys and get the UWE Stadium built. The Fruit Market Stadium would be a purpose built facility incorporating everything needed for a Championship level football club to succeed. So the club’s cash could go into developing the team and coaching structure to make sure it did succeed. Not sure what that's got to do with Nick Higgs, but no one doubts that Dwane might sell, we're only talking about the order in which things might happen. Still don't understand why we would have to sell the Mem first. Surely if the deal is about BRFC moving then it makes sense to move after the stadium is built. No one (I mean exactly no one) involved or potentially involved would benefit from BRFC being homeless for a few years; that just loses money and makes any potential deal worse for everyone, even if it was legal. Not sure what the reason might be for selling first and moving away then moving back which you keep repeating, but never bother to elucidate. The clear beneficiaries of a relatively quick sale of the Mem and the club would be the Al-Qadi family. We can talk about everything staying the same until a new stadium is ready but who is going to pay? At the moment the interest on the credit line alone must be running at close to 700 000 per year which, coupled with trading losses, means we could still be losing 3 million per year. In two years time, if the credit line and accumulated interest have risen to 25 million but the ground is only worth 20 million, who is going to pay the difference ? I believe the Al-Qadi family will be fully aware of this and want to get off the financial hook as soon as possible. Rather than wait for them to act, which may have unpleasant consequences for a Rovers, we should be trying to find a way out which causes least harm to all the parties concerned.
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Post by Antonio Fargas on Dec 28, 2019 19:33:16 GMT
Not sure what that's got to do with Nick Higgs, but no one doubts that Dwane might sell, we're only talking about the order in which things might happen. Still don't understand why we would have to sell the Mem first. Surely if the deal is about BRFC moving then it makes sense to move after the stadium is built. No one (I mean exactly no one) involved or potentially involved would benefit from BRFC being homeless for a few years; that just loses money and makes any potential deal worse for everyone, even if it was legal. Not sure what the reason might be for selling first and moving away then moving back which you keep repeating, but never bother to elucidate. The clear beneficiaries of a relatively quick sale of the Mem and the club would be the Al-Qadi family. Except not having a home would be a cost to the new owners, therefore it effects the sale price (by exactly that amount) so it wouldn't benefit anything.
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Post by swissgas on Dec 28, 2019 19:45:22 GMT
The clear beneficiaries of a relatively quick sale of the Mem and the club would be the Al-Qadi family. Except not having a home would be a cost to the new owners, therefore it effects the sale price (by exactly that amount) so it wouldn't benefit anything. The only thing being sold would be the Mem land. The club would be passed on to those accepting that liability. And a short term ground share lease would cost a lot less than the 700 000 interest currently being charged for the privilege of being at the Mem. Additionally, the football club would save on maintenance, insurance and other costs we currently have. So bearing this in mind and accounting for much lower crowds and commercial revenue I think trading losses for the ground share period could be kept close to the 1 million per year we had prior to Dwane Sports taking over.
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Post by Antonio Fargas on Dec 28, 2019 20:09:03 GMT
Except not having a home would be a cost to the new owners, therefore it effects the sale price (by exactly that amount) so it wouldn't benefit anything. The only thing being sold would be the Mem land. The club would be passed on to those accepting that liability. And a short term ground share lease would cost a lot less than the 700 000 interest currently being charged for the privilege of being at the Mem. Additionally, the football club would save on maintenance, insurance and other costs we currently have. So bearing this in mind and accounting for much lower crowds and commercial revenue I think trading losses for the ground share period could be kept close to the 1 million per year we had prior to Dwane Sports taking over. Well, you're basically saying, then, that Dwane are asset strippers.
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Post by swissgas on Dec 28, 2019 20:37:10 GMT
The only thing being sold would be the Mem land. The club would be passed on to those accepting that liability. And a short term ground share lease would cost a lot less than the 700 000 interest currently being charged for the privilege of being at the Mem. Additionally, the football club would save on maintenance, insurance and other costs we currently have. So bearing this in mind and accounting for much lower crowds and commercial revenue I think trading losses for the ground share period could be kept close to the 1 million per year we had prior to Dwane Sports taking over. Well, you're basically saying, then, that Dwane are asset strippers. No, I’m saying they tried to make a success of Rovers but financially they have failed. But they knew when they bought the club that in a worst case scenario they could sell the land at the Mem and stand a good chance of getting their money back which Wael virtually admitted in his “amazing deal” interview. I’m also saying that it’s no use Gasheads ranting and raving about this but neither is it any good burying our heads in the sand and hoping that Wael will come up with something. His track record suggests he won’t but with the Mayor speaking out about the opportunity at the Fruit Market if Wael can’t or won’t pursue it seriously then we should try to discover if a way can be found of making it work.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2019 20:48:38 GMT
Well, you're basically saying, then, that Dwane are asset strippers. No, I’m saying they tried to make a success of Rovers but financially they have failed. But they knew when they bought the club that in a worst case scenario they could sell the land at the Mem and stand a good chance of getting their money back which Wael virtually admitted in his “amazing deal” interview. I’m also saying that it’s no use Gasheads ranting and raving about this but neither is it any good burying our heads in the sand and hoping that Wael will come up with something. His track record suggests he won’t but with the Mayor speaking out about the opportunity at the Fruit Market if Wael can’t or won’t pursue it seriously then we should try to discover if a way can be found of making it work. I’m sure a family member of an ex board member has confirmed on here that they can’t sell the Mem until we have a new home....
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