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Post by Henbury Gas on Aug 6, 2019 12:31:46 GMT
Speaking to a owner of a unit just outside the fruit market site even before rumours started. He told me BCC were looking to compulsory purchase his unit & I guess many others In a bid to redevelop that area as they were looking to put top end type flat/suites in the Totterdown area which would be overlooking that industrial estate so changing that area to more aesthetic looking modern stadia/leisure/retail/hotels would be very much on the agenda of bcc I would think long way to go but lets hope it happens UTG When was the last time the council used a CPO ? Purchasers of top end flats would not want to be situated next to a football stadium. The council would also need to redirect train tracks I believe and also presumably all the affected businesses ? This being the council that hasn't got a pot to water in so would seek to use a CPO as an enabler to encourage private investment. Trouble being everything else described above makes money so is possibly attractive to investors, a stadium won't deliver the returns expected by a commercially minded investor. What is likely therefore is that if the council has the minerals to use a CPO then it is obliged to deliver the best commercial deal for the ratepayers of Bristol and that does not mean a cut price deal to enable a football stadium that nimby's and greens could easily prove to an impartial inspector is not needed. A 10,000 seater arena was booted out because of imfrastructure issues even though the majority of Bristoliams wanted it. The notion that something twice the size, with presumably twice the traffic impact will be countenanced doesn't sound right to me i'm afraid. The Arena was booted because of the cost issues (£100m +) was the last estimate |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2019 12:32:38 GMT
That is absolute tripe ... total nonsense. For one thing it was ABN AMRO and there was a full time due diligence team who advised Sir Fred to leave it well alone. His ego would not allow him to lose out to Barclays and he over ruled the report. How do I know ? I was in the room the day he did it ! That's all very true. The big issue was that Barclays offered shares for ABN which was actually a very well rated and highly respected bank at the time and set a fair value price. Fred the Shred was so set on getting it all costs to meet his European/Global Bank dream he offered cash well over its value, hence the team's recommendation to leave well alone.. As they say the rest is history. It's also true that Lloyds should never have bought Bank of Scotland. Lloyds I believe was AAA rated at the time. HBOS was a basket case and many Banks had stopped going into their deals because they were so slack. Gordon Brown however would not let a Scottish Bank fail so he basically compelled Lloyds to back it. Interesting note is that if Scotland had been independent and the UK not been there to bail it out the collapse of RBS and HBOS could have caused the failure of the country or at the least a deep recession that would have lasted a generation . A point conveniently ignored by Nationalists especially Nicola Cranky. (apologies to my Scots friends!) Reports today are saying that the CEO of RBS stating that if Scotland gets independence, they would move their HQ to London as Scotland would be too small to support the bank ! |
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Post by Westy on Aug 6, 2019 12:35:58 GMT
Thank you 😊 I love the history of Bristol, especially supporting the oldest club 😎😎😎😎😎😎 |
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Post by gasandelectricity on Aug 6, 2019 12:36:41 GMT
Negotiating tactic I’m sure.
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Marshy
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Post by Marshy on Aug 6, 2019 12:38:34 GMT
Nice, but I can’t see the fruit market on there or any sign of a stadium whatsoever? |
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Post by Gassy on Aug 6, 2019 12:45:33 GMT
Negotiating tactic I’m sure. You see these things all the time tbf Week 1 "We don't know of any offer at all" Week 2 "We've agreed to sell after 6 months of negotiations" It could also be a negotiation tactic for another site... |
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Post by tomylil on Aug 6, 2019 12:52:13 GMT
When was the last time the council used a CPO ? Purchasers of top end flats would not want to be situated next to a football stadium. The council would also need to redirect train tracks I believe and also presumably all the affected businesses ? This being the council that hasn't got a pot to water in so would seek to use a CPO as an enabler to encourage private investment. Trouble being everything else described above makes money so is possibly attractive to investors, a stadium won't deliver the returns expected by a commercially minded investor. What is likely therefore is that if the council has the minerals to use a CPO then it is obliged to deliver the best commercial deal for the ratepayers of Bristol and that does not mean a cut price deal to enable a football stadium that nimby's and greens could easily prove to an impartial inspector is not needed. A 10,000 seater arena was booted out because of imfrastructure issues even though the majority of Bristoliams wanted it. The notion that something twice the size, with presumably twice the traffic impact will be countenanced doesn't sound right to me i'm afraid. The Arena was booted because of the cost issues (£100m +) was the last estimate Thanks. So I would imagine that the majority of that cost would be infrastructure ? Costs for a stadium at the market would surely be the same. |
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Post by baggins on Aug 6, 2019 12:53:59 GMT
Can't we just wait and see what Wael can deliver?
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Post by Captain Jayho on Aug 6, 2019 12:58:51 GMT
The Arena was booted because of the cost issues (£100m +) was the last estimate Thanks. So I would imagine that the majority of that cost would be infrastructure ? Costs for a stadium at the market would surely be the same. Depends what you mean by infrastructure really. That's quite the general term. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2019 13:01:52 GMT
Speaking to a owner of a unit just outside the fruit market site even before rumours started. He told me BCC were looking to compulsory purchase his unit & I guess many others In a bid to redevelop that area as they were looking to put top end type flat/suites in the Totterdown area which would be overlooking that industrial estate so changing that area to more aesthetic looking modern stadia/leisure/retail/hotels would be very much on the agenda of bcc I would think long way to go but lets hope it happens UTG When was the last time the council used a CPO ? Purchasers of top end flats would not want to be situated next to a football stadium. The council would also need to redirect train tracks I believe and also presumably all the affected businesses ? This being the council that hasn't got a pot to water in so would seek to use a CPO as an enabler to encourage private investment. Trouble being everything else described above makes money so is possibly attractive to investors, a stadium won't deliver the returns expected by a commercially minded investor. What is likely therefore is that if the council has the minerals to use a CPO then it is obliged to deliver the best commercial deal for the ratepayers of Bristol and that does not mean a cut price deal to enable a football stadium that nimby's and greens could easily prove to an impartial inspector is not needed. A 10,000 seater arena was booted out because of imfrastructure issues even though the majority of Bristoliams wanted it. The notion that something twice the size, with presumably twice the traffic impact will be countenanced doesn't sound right to me i'm afraid. Oh, and I would imagine that an awful lot of the land around the market have contamination issues that would make any alternative use cost prohibitive. Those were my thoughts. Why would a football stadium for Bristol’s ginger step child (in footballing terms) be a key part of an extension of the town centre when something else could be put there that would make waaay more money and also look more aesthetically pleasing. And as you say would a purchaser of luxury flat really want stunning views of the arse end of a football stadium that blocks out most of the visibility from their window? For such a development to make sense for everyone it would need to be multi-purpose and aesthetic AF, which would all push the build cost up. I’m pleased that we have some specific information from Wael for once, but after reading some of the counter views and applying some critical thought I am sceptical that this site will be both affordable and planning permission acceptable. The most likely long term solution to my mind is an out of town development in South Gloucestershire where the land will be cheap(er) and there are no nimbys around to complain. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2019 13:11:11 GMT
Can't we just wait and see what Wael can deliver? I'm sixty this year. There is a limit ! |
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Post by baggins on Aug 6, 2019 13:12:45 GMT
Can't we just wait and see what Wael can deliver? I'm sixty this year. There is a limit ! Few more years won't kill yo....I understand. |
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Post by Captain Jayho on Aug 6, 2019 13:12:59 GMT
Those were my thoughts. Why would a football stadium for Bristol’s ginger step child (in footballing terms) be a key part of an extension of the town centre when something else could be put there that would make waaay more money and also look more aesthetically pleasing. And as you say would a purchaser of luxury flat really want stunning views of the arse end of a football stadium that blocks out most of the visibility from their window? For such a development to make sense for everyone it would need to be multi-purpose and aesthetic AF, which would all push the build cost up. I’m pleased that we have some specific information from Wael for once, but after reading some of the counter views and applying some critical thought I am sceptical that this site will be both affordable and planning permission acceptable. The most likely long term solution to my mind is an out of town development in South Gloucestershire where the land will be cheap(er) and there are no nimbys around to complain. The major stumbling blocks would be the ability and resources to purchase the site and any clean-up required from previous heavy industry usage. I would imagine council will be all over this type of development like a cheap suit though. Inner city urban renewal, enhanced community facilities, sustainable transport options everywhere. Council lap that sh** up. Planning permission will be considerably easier here than at the Mem if you ask me. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2019 13:16:16 GMT
When was the last time the council used a CPO ? Purchasers of top end flats would not want to be situated next to a football stadium. The council would also need to redirect train tracks I believe and also presumably all the affected businesses ? This being the council that hasn't got a pot to water in so would seek to use a CPO as an enabler to encourage private investment. Trouble being everything else described above makes money so is possibly attractive to investors, a stadium won't deliver the returns expected by a commercially minded investor. What is likely therefore is that if the council has the minerals to use a CPO then it is obliged to deliver the best commercial deal for the ratepayers of Bristol and that does not mean a cut price deal to enable a football stadium that nimby's and greens could easily prove to an impartial inspector is not needed. A 10,000 seater arena was booted out because of imfrastructure issues even though the majority of Bristoliams wanted it. The notion that something twice the size, with presumably twice the traffic impact will be countenanced doesn't sound right to me i'm afraid. Oh, and I would imagine that an awful lot of the land around the market have contamination issues that would make any alternative use cost prohibitive. Those were my thoughts. Why would a football stadium for Bristol’s ginger step child (in footballing terms) be a key part of an extension of the town centre when something else could be put there that would make waaay more money and also look more aesthetically pleasing. And as you say would a purchaser of luxury flat really want stunning views of the arse end of a football stadium that blocks out most of the visibility from their window? For such a development to make sense for everyone it would need to be multi-purpose and aesthetic AF, which would all push the build cost up. I’m pleased that we have some specific information from Wael for once, but after reading some of the counter views and applying some critical thought I am sceptical that this site will be both affordable and planning permission acceptable. The most likely long term solution to my mind is an out of town development in South Gloucestershire where the land will be cheap(er) and there are no nimbys around to complain.This is the bit for me. In this day and age, should we really be looking to build a new stadium in the City? The Council are doing everything they can to discourage people from driving into the city. It won't be long before there is something like a congestion charge, as in London. Even talk on this thread is about parking, and how to get there. The public transport infrastructure is truly dire in Bristol. An out of town site would be cheaper, more environmentally friendly, and it really is the way we should be going. |
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Post by geddongas on Aug 6, 2019 13:28:28 GMT
Infrastructure issues mount on an arena mostly due to the amount of people coming from all areas to watch some form of entertainment there. A lot of them drive. That needs more parking space and more road networks to get them there.
A football match for a local team is going to be occupied by... Locals. And a few thousand travelling fans at most. Much less hinging on car parking space, for instance.
Alongside the stadium will be commercial outlets. Commercial outlets want footfall and traffic and may well be what makes this deal financially viable. That requires a busy location, a city centre location, close to the main train station in the city.
In addition, the official capacity may be 20,000 but we are not using that every week, and that gives the infrastructure around the stadium time to be improved with cooperation between the club and the council as the club grows. The council want the regeneration to continue and the club can become a central part of a community built around it.
Most travelling away fans will come by train to Temple Meads if we base at the Fruit Market. Considerably easier to them to do than current situation.
These are all reasons for why the fruit market site is a viable option and would be good for us and for the council.
If all this talk is true, I wouldn't see the planning being the issue. Rather, it would be the cost of cleanup and readying the site for building the stadium that could mount up the bills.
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Post by Jomo on Aug 6, 2019 13:33:40 GMT
Those were my thoughts. Why would a football stadium for Bristol’s ginger step child (in footballing terms) be a key part of an extension of the town centre when something else could be put there that would make waaay more money and also look more aesthetically pleasing. And as you say would a purchaser of luxury flat really want stunning views of the arse end of a football stadium that blocks out most of the visibility from their window? For such a development to make sense for everyone it would need to be multi-purpose and aesthetic AF, which would all push the build cost up. I’m pleased that we have some specific information from Wael for once, but after reading some of the counter views and applying some critical thought I am sceptical that this site will be both affordable and planning permission acceptable. The most likely long term solution to my mind is an out of town development in South Gloucestershire where the land will be cheap(er) and there are no nimbys around to complain.This is the bit for me. In this day and age, should we really be looking to build a new stadium in the City? The Council are doing everything they can to discourage people from driving into the city. It won't be long before there is something like a congestion charge, as in London. Even talk on this thread is about parking, and how to get there. The public transport infrastructure is truly dire in Bristol. An out of town site would be cheaper, more environmentally friendly, and it really is the way we should be going. nobby, why do you think an out of town site would be more environmentally friendly? Cheaper for sure, but surely building work, exhaust fumes and transport to the stadium in general would pollute the atmosphere just as much at an out of town stadium as an inner city one, in fact more so due to the fact a larger percentage of supporters would use cars instead of public transport? There's also the fact that the site is already industrialised and so building on it would not have a detrimental impact on the ecology etc as it will have been already been shafted during the original industrialisation of the area. |
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Post by Henbury Gas on Aug 6, 2019 13:33:58 GMT
The Arena was booted because of the cost issues (£100m +) was the last estimate Thanks. So I would imagine that the majority of that cost would be infrastructure ? Costs for a stadium at the market would surely be the same. The infrastructure costs had been incurred already with the Bridge to nowhere and clearing the site. No new parking was planned and only buses/trains are the prefered method of transport. No the majority was build costs for a Arena that was way to ambitious for the site |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2019 13:36:18 GMT
Infrastructure issues mount on an arena mostly due to the amount of people coming from all areas to watch some form of entertainment there. A lot of them drive. That needs more parking space and more road networks to get them there. A football match for a local team is going to be occupied by... Locals. And a few thousand travelling fans at most. Much less hinging on car parking space, for instance. Alongside the stadium will be commercial outlets. Commercial outlets want footfall and traffic and may well be what makes this deal financially viable. That requires a busy location, a city centre location, close to the main train station in the city. In addition, the official capacity may be 20,000 but we are not using that every week, and that gives the infrastructure around the stadium time to be improved with cooperation between the club and the council as the club grows. The council want the regeneration to continue and the club can become a central part of a community built around it. Most travelling away fans will come by train to Temple Meads if we base at the Fruit Market. Considerably easier to them to do than current situation. These are all reasons for why the fruit market site is a viable option and would be good for us and for the council. If all this talk is true, I wouldn't see the planning being the issue. Rather, it would be the cost of cleanup and readying the site for building the stadium that could mount up the bills. If there is a fruit market there, surely the land cannot be contaminated? Why would it require a 'clean up'? |
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Post by Henbury Gas on Aug 6, 2019 13:36:26 GMT
Infrastructure issues mount on an arena mostly due to the amount of people coming from all areas to watch some form of entertainment there. A lot of them drive. That needs more parking space and more road networks to get them there. A football match for a local team is going to be occupied by... Locals. And a few thousand travelling fans at most. Much less hinging on car parking space, for instance. Alongside the stadium will be commercial outlets. Commercial outlets want footfall and traffic and may well be what makes this deal financially viable. That requires a busy location, a city centre location, close to the main train station in the city. In addition, the official capacity may be 20,000 but we are not using that every week, and that gives the infrastructure around the stadium time to be improved with cooperation between the club and the council as the club grows. The council want the regeneration to continue and the club can become a central part of a community built around it. Most travelling away fans will come by train to Temple Meads if we base at the Fruit Market. Considerably easier to them to do than current situation.These are all reasons for why the fruit market site is a viable option and would be good for us and for the council. If all this talk is true, I wouldn't see the planning being the issue. Rather, it would be the cost of cleanup and readying the site for building the stadium that could mount up the bills. and if network rail get there act together and open up the old tunnels in Temple meads, they will have a very easy way to get to the fruit market site |
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Post by Henbury Gas on Aug 6, 2019 13:37:39 GMT
Infrastructure issues mount on an arena mostly due to the amount of people coming from all areas to watch some form of entertainment there. A lot of them drive. That needs more parking space and more road networks to get them there. A football match for a local team is going to be occupied by... Locals. And a few thousand travelling fans at most. Much less hinging on car parking space, for instance. Alongside the stadium will be commercial outlets. Commercial outlets want footfall and traffic and may well be what makes this deal financially viable. That requires a busy location, a city centre location, close to the main train station in the city. In addition, the official capacity may be 20,000 but we are not using that every week, and that gives the infrastructure around the stadium time to be improved with cooperation between the club and the council as the club grows. The council want the regeneration to continue and the club can become a central part of a community built around it. Most travelling away fans will come by train to Temple Meads if we base at the Fruit Market. Considerably easier to them to do than current situation. These are all reasons for why the fruit market site is a viable option and would be good for us and for the council. If all this talk is true, I wouldn't see the planning being the issue. Rather, it would be the cost of cleanup and readying the site for building the stadium that could mount up the bills. If there is a fruit market there, surely the land cannot be contaminated? Why would it require a 'clean up'? before it was a fruit market is was an old shunting yard for steam loco's so some contamination is possible |
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