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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2019 8:36:09 GMT
As a non Tory fan myself,if he does half as good as job as Trump is doing in the U.S then let him be a Trump wanna be.đź’Şđź‘Ť Which elements of Trump do you want Boris to emulate? Wait for it |
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Post by stuart1974 on Nov 5, 2019 8:36:55 GMT
Shame for them then that Boris and Nigel have different ideas about what Brexit means. Even though they knew what it meant when they voted. Ahem. As seems likely 100 plus seats will go to other Partys neither the Tories or Labour will get a majority. So who would like to see a Corbyn Government supported by the SNP and Lib Dems and if so do you believe they would resolve Brexit and bring the Country together bearing in mind for there support the SNP would demand a referendum in the next Parliament At the moment I see it as 50/50 between a Conservative majority and a hung parliament. If the latter happens then I can see a Labour minority government with LibDem and SNP, etc support but no formal coalition, but I can't see it lasting 12 months before we go back again to the polls. It will manage a referendum (just) and then fall apart. In answer to your question, no, no and no but I don't think either option will. Hobson's choice. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2019 8:44:30 GMT
In the now daily litany of Tory incompetence this one made me laugh. www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/business-50296672None built, after 4 years. ÂŁ2billion pledged, zero, none, f**k all. According to the NAO they spent ÂŁ174 million acquiring the land and then..... Maybe they bought the land from their supporters, with our money |
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Post by althepirate on Nov 5, 2019 8:51:55 GMT
Pray tell al where does your truth come from? Facebook I assume? show me enlightenment so I can be a better man Reality. |
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Post by peterparker on Nov 5, 2019 8:53:58 GMT
As seems likely 100 plus seats will go to other Partys neither the Tories or Labour will get a majority. So who would like to see a Corbyn Government supported by the SNP and Lib Dems and if so do you believe they would resolve Brexit and bring the Country together bearing in mind for there support the SNP would demand a referendum in the next Parliament At the moment I see it as 50/50 between a Conservative majority and a hung parliament. If the latter happens then I can see a Labour minority government with LibDem and SNP, etc support but no formal coalition, but I can't see it lasting 12 months before we go back again to the polls. It will manage a referendum (just) and then fall apart. In answer to your question, no, no and no but I don't think either option will. Hobson's choice. I think that is a distinct possibility an informal alliance to pass a second referendum (Libs are at pains to say they will not support a Corbyn or Johnson Government) and the SNP will do whatever to wangle a Scottish referendum, but I can see us having a May 2021 election once BREXIT is confirmed or shut down |
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Post by Icegas on Nov 5, 2019 8:57:43 GMT
As a non Tory fan myself,if he does half as good as job as Trump is doing in the U.S then let him be a Trump wanna be.đź’Şđź‘Ť Which elements of Trump do you want Boris to emulate? To start not bowing down to biased and in most parts lying liberal media. How about making the economy in the UK the stongest its ever been in history like Trump has done in the U.S? How about making black unemployment being at an all time record low? How about fixing or at least calming down things between the two koreas? How about trying to tighten our borders.. |
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Post by althepirate on Nov 5, 2019 9:02:11 GMT
As seems likely 100 plus seats will go to other Partys neither the Tories or Labour will get a majority. So who would like to see a Corbyn Government supported by the SNP and Lib Dems and if so do you believe they would resolve Brexit and bring the Country together bearing in mind for there support the SNP would demand a referendum in the next Parliament At the moment I see it as 50/50 between a Conservative majority and a hung parliament. If the latter happens then I can see a Labour minority government with LibDem and SNP, etc support but no formal coalition, but I can't see it lasting 12 months before we go back again to the polls. It will manage a referendum (just) and then fall apart. In answer to your question, no, no and no but I don't think either option will. Hobson's choice. Stuart I do like your posts. You do know how to listen and discuss. On this post I think Lib Dems are undemocratic, Labour can't make decisions, even now they haven't made a decision on Brexit! So a coalition of these two won't work and like you say if it came to that we'll be back again in a 12 months time. This is time we need strength, but who can get that majority? |
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Post by stuart1974 on Nov 5, 2019 9:15:52 GMT
Which elements of Trump do you want Boris to emulate? To start not bowing down to biased and in most parts lying liberal media. How about making the economy in the UK the stongest its ever been in history like Trump has done in the U.S? How about making black unemployment being at an all time record low? How about fixing or at least calming down things between the two koreas? How about trying to tighten our borders.. Not sure his media handling is something to copy and his economic policies have been done through tax cuts encouraging stockpiling. This is fine for the short term but will slow in time. I would agree with Korea, eventually though. His first action was to threaten war. I would also raise you Syria, withdrawing forces by tweet leaving the Kurds at the mercy of Turkey. If he can do that to allies and possibly set back the ISIS fight despite the Bagdadi assassination. He can do what he wants because the US is so powerful. If Boris tried throwing his weight around in such a bullish style then I suspect it won't have the same effect. Are you familiar with Suez? As for the borders, this was covered previously, we already have control but don't or can't enforce it. |
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Post by stuart1974 on Nov 5, 2019 9:21:22 GMT
At the moment I see it as 50/50 between a Conservative majority and a hung parliament. If the latter happens then I can see a Labour minority government with LibDem and SNP, etc support but no formal coalition, but I can't see it lasting 12 months before we go back again to the polls. It will manage a referendum (just) and then fall apart. In answer to your question, no, no and no but I don't think either option will. Hobson's choice. Stuart I do like your posts. You do know how to listen and discuss. On this post I think Lib Dems are undemocratic, Labour can't make decisions, even now they haven't made a decision on Brexit! So a coalition of these two won't work and like you say if it came to that we'll be back again in a 12 months time. This is time we need strength, but who can get that majority? I would prefer consensus rather than strength, had May done this then we would have left already. Boris could have chosen to but decided to go for an artificial deadline for political reasons. He tried the strong man technique and failed. |
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Post by peterparker on Nov 5, 2019 9:32:57 GMT
At the moment I see it as 50/50 between a Conservative majority and a hung parliament. If the latter happens then I can see a Labour minority government with LibDem and SNP, etc support but no formal coalition, but I can't see it lasting 12 months before we go back again to the polls. It will manage a referendum (just) and then fall apart. In answer to your question, no, no and no but I don't think either option will. Hobson's choice. Stuart I do like your posts. You do know how to listen and discuss. On this post I think Lib Dems are undemocratic, Labour can't make decisions, even now they haven't made a decision on Brexit! So a coalition of these two won't work and like you say if it came to that we'll be back again in a 12 months time. This is time we need strength, but who can get that majority? the whole point of democracy is you can take a contrary position
The Lib Dems are simply standing on a platform they have since day 1 to remain in the EU
It's clear where they stand. you can democratically elect them or not
They won't win a majority, but if they did then surely that is the will of the people and if we ever leave the Libs will probably democratically campaign to re-join
Far from undemocratic. quite the opposite
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Post by althepirate on Nov 5, 2019 9:46:15 GMT
Stuart I do like your posts. You do know how to listen and discuss. On this post I think Lib Dems are undemocratic, Labour can't make decisions, even now they haven't made a decision on Brexit! So a coalition of these two won't work and like you say if it came to that we'll be back again in a 12 months time. This is time we need strength, but who can get that majority? the whole point of democracy is you can take a contrary position
The Lib Dems are simply standing on a platform they have since day 1 to remain in the EU
It's clear where they stand. you can democratically elect them or not
They won't win a majority, but if they did then surely that is the will of the people and if we ever leave the Libs will probably democratically campaign to re-join
Far from undemocratic. quite the opposite
Then we will have to agree to disagree. |
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Post by peterparker on Nov 5, 2019 10:11:15 GMT
the whole point of democracy is you can take a contrary position
The Lib Dems are simply standing on a platform they have since day 1 to remain in the EU
It's clear where they stand. you can democratically elect them or not
They won't win a majority, but if they did then surely that is the will of the people and if we ever leave the Libs will probably democratically campaign to re-join
Far from undemocratic. quite the opposite
Then we will have to agree to disagree. Ok we can agree to disagree on that, but in final I would ask
What form of leave to you subscribe to? Nigel Farage Party Leave, Boris Johnson leave or the as yet un-negotiated Jeremy Corbyn Leave? or does it not matter
3 choices of leave, 1 choice of remain. Democracy
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2019 10:11:44 GMT
Stuart I do like your posts. You do know how to listen and discuss. On this post I think Lib Dems are undemocratic, Labour can't make decisions, even now they haven't made a decision on Brexit! So a coalition of these two won't work and like you say if it came to that we'll be back again in a 12 months time. This is time we need strength, but who can get that majority? the whole point of democracy is you can take a contrary position
The Lib Dems are simply standing on a platform they have since day 1 to remain in the EU
It's clear where they stand. you can democratically elect them or not
They won't win a majority, but if they did then surely that is the will of the people and if we ever leave the Libs will probably democratically campaign to re-join
Far from undemocratic. quite the opposite
Um....err....... "In a passionate intervention in the debate on the new Lisbon treaty, which is undergoing lengthy parliamentary scrutiny, the pro-European Liberal Democrat leader says it is time to stage a referendum on whether Britain should stay in the EU. Writing in today's Guardian, Clegg says: "We've all gone crazy. Pro and anti, Europhile and Eurosceptic, trading blows about the Lisbon treaty in grand rhetoric that obscures the facts. If you're pro-European, like I am, you're accused of being a sell-out. If you're anti-European, like most of the Conservative party, you're accused of being a headbanger." Clegg says it is time to give the country its first chance in 33 years to decide if it wants to be in or out of the EU. "Nobody in this country under the age of 51 has ever been asked that simple question. That includes half of all MPs. We've been signed up to Europe by default: two generations who have never had their say."
Clegg, 41, a former MEP of Dutch and Russian heritage who made his name as a senior official in the European commission, will this week table an amendment in parliament to the Lisbon treaty bill demanding an "in or out" referendum." |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2019 10:17:16 GMT
Then we will have to agree to disagree. Ok we can agree to disagree on that, but in final I would ask
What form of leave to you subscribe to? Nigel Farage Party Leave, Boris Johnson leave or the as yet un-negotiated Jeremy Corbyn Leave? or does it not matter
3 choices of leave, 1 choice of remain. Democracy
Not quite. Is it Remain and fully sign up to a European Federal State/Empire? or Remain and adopt the Euro or Remain and fully integrate the British Military into the developing EU Military or does Remain entail all three options being implemented? I'm still waiting to hear what direction the EU will be taking? What does Remain actually mean? If anyone thinks the UK can Remain in the EU and keep the Pound in the long term, keep the Vetoes, and not get consumed by the EU drive towards full political and monitary union, then they really need to get their heads out of the sand. |
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Post by stuart1974 on Nov 5, 2019 10:32:58 GMT
Ok we can agree to disagree on that, but in final I would ask
What form of leave to you subscribe to? Nigel Farage Party Leave, Boris Johnson leave or the as yet un-negotiated Jeremy Corbyn Leave? or does it not matter
3 choices of leave, 1 choice of remain. Democracy
Not quite. Is it Remain and fully sign up to a European Federal State/Empire? or Remain and adopt the Euro or Remain and fully integrate the British Military into the developing EU Military or does Remain entail all three options being implemented? I'm still waiting to hear what direction the EU will be taking? What does Remain actually mean? If anyone thinks the UK can Remain in the EU and keep the Pound in the long term, keep the Vetoes, and not get consumed by the EU drive towards full political and monitary union, then they really need to get their heads out of the sand. We could choose to do those, but who is forcing us? All of those points are within the gift of Parliament or would have been subject to a referendum (thanks to the Coalition Government passing said legislation). |
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Post by peterparker on Nov 5, 2019 10:35:09 GMT
the whole point of democracy is you can take a contrary position
The Lib Dems are simply standing on a platform they have since day 1 to remain in the EU
It's clear where they stand. you can democratically elect them or not
They won't win a majority, but if they did then surely that is the will of the people and if we ever leave the Libs will probably democratically campaign to re-join
Far from undemocratic. quite the opposite
Um....err....... "In a passionate intervention in the debate on the new Lisbon treaty, which is undergoing lengthy parliamentary scrutiny, the pro-European Liberal Democrat leader says it is time to stage a referendum on whether Britain should stay in the EU. Writing in today's Guardian, Clegg says: "We've all gone crazy. Pro and anti, Europhile and Eurosceptic, trading blows about the Lisbon treaty in grand rhetoric that obscures the facts. If you're pro-European, like I am, you're accused of being a sell-out. If you're anti-European, like most of the Conservative party, you're accused of being a headbanger." Clegg says it is time to give the country its first chance in 33 years to decide if it wants to be in or out of the EU. "Nobody in this country under the age of 51 has ever been asked that simple question. That includes half of all MPs. We've been signed up to Europe by default: two generations who have never had their say."
Clegg, 41, a former MEP of Dutch and Russian heritage who made his name as a senior official in the European commission, will this week table an amendment in parliament to the Lisbon treaty bill demanding an "in or out" referendum."not sure I need to point out there is a difference between offering up a referendum and actively campaigning to remain
Democracy keeps moving, no one is forced to vote Lib Dem
If you don't want them, want leave, then don't Dam vote for them
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2019 10:45:56 GMT
Not quite. Is it Remain and fully sign up to a European Federal State/Empire? or Remain and adopt the Euro or Remain and fully integrate the British Military into the developing EU Military or does Remain entail all three options being implemented? I'm still waiting to hear what direction the EU will be taking? What does Remain actually mean? If anyone thinks the UK can Remain in the EU and keep the Pound in the long term, keep the Vetoes, and not get consumed by the EU drive towards full political and monitary union, then they really need to get their heads out of the sand. We could choose to do those, but who is forcing us? All of those points are within the gift of Parliament or would have been subject to a referendum (thanks to the Coalition Government passing said legislation). Do you really think things will stay as they are? So this is it for the EU? No further expansion, no further integration? Can the EU evolve into monetary union unless all member states adopt the Euro? Things will just stay the same as they are now? Do you really think any future British Government will allow any more referendum's on the EU? Any existing legislation can be rescinded. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2019 10:48:02 GMT
Um....err....... "In a passionate intervention in the debate on the new Lisbon treaty, which is undergoing lengthy parliamentary scrutiny, the pro-European Liberal Democrat leader says it is time to stage a referendum on whether Britain should stay in the EU. Writing in today's Guardian, Clegg says: "We've all gone crazy. Pro and anti, Europhile and Eurosceptic, trading blows about the Lisbon treaty in grand rhetoric that obscures the facts. If you're pro-European, like I am, you're accused of being a sell-out. If you're anti-European, like most of the Conservative party, you're accused of being a headbanger." Clegg says it is time to give the country its first chance in 33 years to decide if it wants to be in or out of the EU. "Nobody in this country under the age of 51 has ever been asked that simple question. That includes half of all MPs. We've been signed up to Europe by default: two generations who have never had their say."
Clegg, 41, a former MEP of Dutch and Russian heritage who made his name as a senior official in the European commission, will this week table an amendment in parliament to the Lisbon treaty bill demanding an "in or out" referendum."not sure I need to point out there is a difference between offering up a referendum and actively campaigning to remain
Democracy keeps moving, no one is forced to vote Lib Dem
If you don't want them, want leave, then don't f**king vote for them
I'm just pointing out the the Lib Dems have not been for staying in the EU from Day 1. They were the first party to advocate an in/out referendum......or is it just the fact that they will just ignore the democratic wishes of the electorate? |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2019 10:54:00 GMT
Then we will have to agree to disagree. Ok we can agree to disagree on that, but in final I would ask
What form of leave to you subscribe to? Nigel Farage Party Leave, Boris Johnson leave or the as yet un-negotiated Jeremy Corbyn Leave? or does it not matter
3 choices of leave, 1 choice of remain. Democracy
Your question was not addressed to me but as a Leaver I’m happy to offer an opinion too. I don’t think a second referendum would be a good idea. The initial result should stand and the basic principle, for a variety of different reasons to different people, was that a majority do not like being in the EU and would rather leave than be dragged wherever it takes us. If the general public is asked to vote on the current deal they would be required to digest the massive document and fully understand it. Most couldn’t even be bothered to start reading it let alone fully understand it. The intricacies of our departure is for the politicians to sort out despite most of us now not liking to place our trust in them. If no deal was the best option it would hold no personal fears for me. I have every confidence we would flourish long term. The third option of leaving under a Corbyn Deal is a very scary thought - like his predecessor I wouldn’t even trust him to negotiate a bacon sandwich. |
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Post by stuart1974 on Nov 5, 2019 10:54:29 GMT
We could choose to do those, but who is forcing us? All of those points are within the gift of Parliament or would have been subject to a referendum (thanks to the Coalition Government passing said legislation). Do you really think things will stay as they are? So this is it for the EU? No further expansion, no further integration? Can the EU evolve into monetary union unless all member states adopt the Euro? Things will just stay the same as they are now? Do you really think any future British Government will allow any more referendum's on the EU? Any existing legislation can be rescinded. Then it becomes a Parliament issue. So not being imposed, a UK decision. Can you really see any UK government signing up to the Euro without some form of public agreement after the last few years? Not in your lifetime. |
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