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Post by althepirate on Dec 14, 2019 8:51:11 GMT
Apparently Boris is a liar, but the left wing boys are as honest as the driven snow, apparently.
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Post by trevorgas on Dec 14, 2019 8:59:09 GMT
Sadly I believe the Labour Party is firmly in the hands of Momentum and the next leader will be very much from the left which will make them unelectable for a decade,there will need to be a battle akin to the 80s/90s commenced by Kinnnock/Smith and finished by Blair before they are a electable. I am not sure they have a clue who they represent anymore, the leadership keep trotting out its the "workers" but who are the "workers",the days of massive industries like Coal and Steel etc are long gone as is the Unions ability to weild power and as such the culture of extended families all voting Labour are consigned to history. Labour's manifesto in large part played to an electorate that existed in the 60s/70s and people have moved on since then. Yes, I agree. A battle royal will commence now, the fact that Corbyn has not stood down immediately and the use of Brexit as an excuse for their humiliation is indicative of the intention of some to "dig in" Listening to some of the constituents in Carolyn Flint's constituency (which she lost) I am not sure that the Labour Party can represent them. Even in the days when they prided themselves as a "Socialist" Party, they were internationalist in nature. These guys (constituents) were xenophobes personified it was horrific listening to them. They were natural constituents of Brexit Party ideology or the right wing of the Tory Party. Listening, it was quite apparent they viewed immigration as the root cause of all their local issues and that curtailing immigration was their key priority. It's no use, as we find on this little forum, arguing the case for social and economic liberalism (with a dose of state intervention in key services) as they dont want to know. And, of course, in democracy, they have every right to feel, believe and vote accordingly. So, sadly, as a centre left person, someone who believes in the benefits of internationalism and the free movement of human capital (that's what it is in reality) and liberal socio/economic policies that my country does not. We have elected a right wing government supported hugely by a narrow minded, xenophobic, swathe of voters who aim their anger for their economic and social positions at immigration, rather than the austerity policies of the party they just voted for. I have to accept it, the centre has been roundly beaten and is represented by almost no one in Parliament. C'EST la vie as they say. Fortunately my kids grew up and f**ked off years ago. Agree I would argue that the Labour Party like many others has always had its fair share of " Sunday reading" Xenophobes the only difference now is that with Social Media and greater TV coverage a light is shone on them. I feel sorry for Carolyn Flint as she is a good constituency MP that stood up for her beliefs. |
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Post by trevorgas on Dec 14, 2019 9:00:22 GMT
Yes, I agree. A battle royal will commence now, the fact that Corbyn has not stood down immediately and the use of Brexit as an excuse for their humiliation is indicative of the intention of some to "dig in" Listening to some of the constituents in Carolyn Flint's constituency (which she lost) I am not sure that the Labour Party can represent them. Even in the days when they prided themselves as a "Socialist" Party, they were internationalist in nature. These guys (constituents) were xenophobes personified it was horrific listening to them. They were natural constituents of Brexit Party ideology or the right wing of the Tory Party. Listening, it was quite apparent they viewed immigration as the root cause of all their local issues and that curtailing immigration was their key priority. It's no use, as we find on this little forum, arguing the case for social and economic liberalism (with a dose of state intervention in key services) as they dont want to know. And, of course, in democracy, they have every right to feel, believe and vote accordingly. So, sadly, as a centre left person, someone who believes in the benefits of internationalism and the free movement of human capital (that's what it is in reality) and liberal socio/economic policies that my country does not. We have elected a right wing government supported hugely by a narrow minded, xenophobic, swathe of voters who aim their anger for their economic and social positions at immigration, rather than the austerity policies of the party they just voted for. I have to accept it, the centre has been roundly beaten and is represented by almost no one in Parliament. C'EST la vie as they say. Fortunately my kids grew up and f**ked off years ago. Agree I would argue that the Labour Party like many others has always had its fair share of " Sunday reading" Xenophobes the only difference now is that with Social Media and greater TV coverage a light is shone on them. I feel sorry for Carolyn Flint as she is a good constituency MP that stood up for her beliefs. Apologies Sun not Sunday |
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pirate
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Post by pirate on Dec 14, 2019 9:42:34 GMT
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Post by althepirate on Dec 14, 2019 9:50:14 GMT
Once again not the truth then, just warning people it could happen as they know sensational headlines sell lots of papers. Oh wait isn't that capitalism? Still waiting to hear when the PMs said they wouldn't sell if you have a moment to dig it up please. |
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Post by gas2 on Dec 14, 2019 10:01:06 GMT
Can't believe all those numptys up north voted for then nasty party they must enjoy going to food banks universal credit shopping for chloths in charity shops and living in cardboard boxes
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Post by althepirate on Dec 14, 2019 10:17:38 GMT
Can't believe all those numptys up north voted for then nasty party they must enjoy going to food banks universal credit shopping for chloths in charity shops and living in cardboard boxes They must think it's better than Corbynysm. Tbh I would rather feed from a foodbank than have Jeremy as PM and Abbott as Home Secretary. Oh and democracy too, we like to have a referendum and to be listened to. Does anyone have a seat for Miss Swinson? |
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Post by popuppirate on Dec 14, 2019 10:45:55 GMT
Can't believe all those numptys up north voted for then nasty party they must enjoy going to food banks universal credit shopping for chloths in charity shops and living in cardboard boxes They must think it's better than Corbynysm. Tbh I would rather feed from a foodbank than have Jeremy as PM and Abbott as Home Secretary. Oh and democracy too, we like to have a referendum and to be listened to. Does anyone have a seat for Miss Swinson? Calling you out here. To say you'd rather rely on a food bank for meals is ridiculous, and likely nonsense. Brexit was code for immigration and Nationalism, and unfortunately this Nation is getting the Government it deserves. |
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Post by althepirate on Dec 14, 2019 10:48:42 GMT
They must think it's better than Corbynysm. Tbh I would rather feed from a foodbank than have Jeremy as PM and Abbott as Home Secretary. Oh and democracy too, we like to have a referendum and to be listened to. Does anyone have a seat for Miss Swinson? Calling you out here. To say you'd rather rely on a food bank for meals is ridiculous, and likely nonsense. Brexit was code for immigration and Nationalism, and unfortunately this Nation is getting the Government it deserves. Yes isn't it good. |
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Post by popuppirate on Dec 14, 2019 11:07:07 GMT
Calling you out here. To say you'd rather rely on a food bank for meals is ridiculous, and likely nonsense. Brexit was code for immigration and Nationalism, and unfortunately this Nation is getting the Government it deserves. Yes isn't it good. We'll see how 'good' it gets. And how beneficial whatever shambles of leaving the EU this regime achieves will be. Before making flippant statements about using food banks, at least share your experiences of using them and the hardships associated with it. Then I'll share mine. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2019 11:13:39 GMT
Can't believe all those numptys up north voted for then nasty party they must enjoy going to food banks universal credit shopping for chloths in charity shops and living in cardboard boxes Perhaps the use of food banks has been over hyped? You know, just to add to other sensationalist nonsense and lies! |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2019 11:27:18 GMT
The election result is a tragedy for the people and children living in poverty and the homeless. The labour campaign was a car crash but that is besides the point for the above mentioned. Can`t see anything changing, any time soon. I watched the Stalinist harpy on Newsnight last night, "explaining" why Labour lost. They`ve learned nothing, and forgotten nothing. They`d sooner spend their time arguing with each other, than represent the people you mention above. Can they represent those people without changing their principles? I mean, if the greens abandoned the environment and had policies promoting free market economics and tax breaks for the rich they could win a majority, but it.’s not what they stand for. British politics is at a junction where the working class genuinely seem to have lost sight of what is in their best interests. Like gassy pointed out above, you’ve got people living in shipping containers voting Tory. The whole thing is a mess caused by Brexit and changing Corbyn is only going to achieve so much. If Labour want power they will end up being the Liberal Democrat’s but that.’s not the sphere of politics their core values occupy. Perhaps severe betrayal by the Tories (and let’s be fair, that is more likely to happen than it isn’t given the Tories previous history of lies and double crossing their own political partners) is the only thing that can concentrate minds and make the working class realise that Labour is more on their side than anyone else? I speak with some experience- I was going to vote Tory in 2010 because I believed Cameron’s “man of the people”/“call me Dave” schtick and as soon as he got into power he revealed what a brazen c*** he was. I am still thankful to this day that I never voted in that election so that government was not in my name. Ask the DUP and the Lib Dem’s about trusting the Tories. You couldn’t trust ‘em in 2010, nor in 2019 and I fear the poor will eventually realise that the hard way. |
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Post by popuppirate on Dec 14, 2019 11:29:20 GMT
Can't believe all those numptys up north voted for then nasty party they must enjoy going to food banks universal credit shopping for chloths in charity shops and living in cardboard boxes Perhaps the use of food banks has been over hyped? You know, just to add to other sensationalist nonsense and lies! When you say 'perhaps', I'm assuming that means you have no knowledge or experience either. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2019 11:35:17 GMT
Perhaps the use of food banks has been over hyped? You know, just to add to other sensationalist nonsense and lies! When you say 'perhaps', I'm assuming that means you have no knowledge or experience either. Judging by his posts... Of anything |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2019 11:38:06 GMT
Sadly I believe the Labour Party is firmly in the hands of Momentum and the next leader will be very much from the left which will make them unelectable for a decade,there will need to be a battle akin to the 80s/90s commenced by Kinnnock/Smith and finished by Blair before they are a electable. I am not sure they have a clue who they represent anymore, the leadership keep trotting out its the "workers" but who are the "workers",the days of massive industries like Coal and Steel etc are long gone as is the Unions ability to weild power and as such the culture of extended families all voting Labour are consigned to history. Labour's manifesto in large part played to an electorate that existed in the 60s/70s and people have moved on since then. Yes, I agree. A battle royal will commence now, the fact that Corbyn has not stood down immediately and the use of Brexit as an excuse for their humiliation is indicative of the intention of some to "dig in" Listening to some of the constituents in Carolyn Flint's constituency (which she lost) I am not sure that the Labour Party can represent them. Even in the days when they prided themselves as a "Socialist" Party, they were internationalist in nature. These guys (constituents) were xenophobes personified it was horrific listening to them. They were natural constituents of Brexit Party ideology or the right wing of the Tory Party. Listening, it was quite apparent they viewed immigration as the root cause of all their local issues and that curtailing immigration was their key priority. It's no use, as we find on this little forum, arguing the case for social and economic liberalism (with a dose of state intervention in key services) as they dont want to know. And, of course, in democracy, they have every right to feel, believe and vote accordingly. So, sadly, as a centre left person, someone who believes in the benefits of internationalism and the free movement of human capital (that's what it is in reality) and liberal socio/economic policies that my country does not. We have elected a right wing government supported hugely by a narrow minded, xenophobic, swathe of voters who aim their anger for their economic and social positions at immigration, rather than the austerity policies of the party they just voted for. I have to accept it, the centre has been roundly beaten and is represented by almost no one in Parliament. C'EST la vie as they say. Fortunately my kids grew up and f**ked off years ago. Good post. I think we should all be sad at the lack of variety in our politics. It makes it impossible to have genuine change. For some that.’s obviously great, a game rigged in your favour rarely ever gets boring when you can make money out of the repetition, but for most it should be worrying as it makes it less and less possible for your voice to be heard or to have any influence. The spectrum of UK politics has shifted to be very narrow and only a complete hash of Brexit (which could cause a pretty quick backlash imo) or future generations growing up more enlightened and socially (not economically) liberal than the boomer generation can reverse the trend and bring some genuine competitiveness to our politics. As Stephen Kinnock point out, this Tory government should have been hounded out on austerity alone, never mind housing, the NHS, the homeless etc and yet they won by a landslide and demolished traditional Labour strongholds. You can point to Corbyn and he is undoubtedly a factor but I agree that fundamentally the working class have changed over the years and whilst Labour are the only party who want to put them first the working class have been seduced by straw men and strong ad campaigns based on lies into forgetting who their bread is really buttered with. |
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Post by William Wilson on Dec 14, 2019 11:51:01 GMT
Can`t see anything changing, any time soon. I watched the Stalinist harpy on Newsnight last night, "explaining" why Labour lost. They`ve learned nothing, and forgotten nothing. They`d sooner spend their time arguing with each other, than represent the people you mention above. British politics is at a junction where the working class genuinely seem to have lost sight of what is in their best interests. You mean, they've lost sight of what you think is in their best interests. They may not consider that, to be one and the same thing. |
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Post by purdownpoacher1 on Dec 14, 2019 11:53:28 GMT
You think Tony Blair is a socialist ? 🤣😂😅 I didn't say that did I? Move away from making things up. Oooo hobby . Lighten up 😄💙 |
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Post by purdownpoacher1 on Dec 14, 2019 11:54:23 GMT
NOBBY- even 😊
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2019 12:08:09 GMT
British politics is at a junction where the working class genuinely seem to have lost sight of what is in their best interests. You mean, they've lost sight of what you think is in their best interests. They may not consider that, to be one and the same thing. They may not, naturally, but when you read stuff like the below it’s hard not to be sceptical as to whether they really understand or I am right in thinking that they have been seduced by straw men. Look at this report from Leigh which was is over joyed at having gone Tory and the people are talking of “seismic change”: www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/election-2019-50781738"I took an online survey and it did say to vote Labour, but I just couldn't do it," she said. "Jeremy Corbyn, I just don't like him. "I did like Boris before, but now he seems to be a bit of a buffoon. "Still, it's a big shock. The people of Leigh have always voted Labour. But they see market stalls and businesses closing down and perhaps they just trust Boris more with business." So she thinks Boris is a buffoon, an online survey indicates that Labour represent her but, the key part, businesses have been closing down under the Tory government and yet she thinks another 5 years of the Tories will change that? I’d love the BBC to go back in 5 years and see what’s changed in those people’s lives. |
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Post by althepirate on Dec 14, 2019 12:35:42 GMT
The left still don't understand it. If Coca Cola invented a flavour no one wanted, they would scrap it and make a flavour they did.
The left are saying the working class want the wrong things!
This is the sort of arrogance you would have got from Corbyn and this Labour party if they had power.
They think they know what's better for us than we do ourselves.
They have committed the cardinal sin of NOT LISTENING and have paid the heavy price for it.
They are still not listening have not learned anything from huge mistakes. So it's likely they won't have power for decades.
The Tories do not have sole rights on lies either. The left constantly lie, the public are not naive and are not fooled.
Can the left tell me how they can help society without power?
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