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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2019 12:00:08 GMT
OK then, what if we recognised that about 3 minutes ago you and I both agreed that mega corporations should be made to pay their taxes. So you and I dont actually have to spend anything at all actually? Shall we do that? The UK eradicates homelessness and nobody is worse in the pocket. Imagine that. Something to be proud of no? Ah, the elephant in the room. Am I correct in saying that large corporations are free to arrange their tax set-up in any on the countries in the EU Single Market? Which is why so many of them are 'based' in Luxembourg? True. But what you failed to mention is the following.Information from Feb 2019 Corp Tax Rates in the EU Germany 29.8% France 34.4% Spain 25% Holland 25% Italy 27.8% Sweden 22% The UK 19% I believe Labour are proposing an increase to 25%. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2019 12:03:39 GMT
No I would prefer to stop benefit cheating and system abuse first and solve homelessness that way. If that isn’t enough then I would consider a bit more. You sound a bit like those charity collectors. Can you spare £5 pound a month to save a snow leopard. Ok I’ll set up a direct debit. Then someone wants to save polar bears and say’s its only another £5 surely you can pay that little bit more? When does it ever end. As society and it’s demographic changes we have to become smarter and more efficient in how we use our money and stop the state being abused. OK then, what if we recognised that about 3 minutes ago you and I both agreed that mega corporations should be made to pay their taxes. So you and I dont actually have to spend anything at all actually? Shall we do that? The UK eradicates homelessness and nobody is worse in the pocket. Imagine that. Something to be proud of no? Give some examples of these mega corporations....is one of them the manufacturer of your smartphone perchance? |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2019 12:14:29 GMT
William, I cannot think of a worse record in recent history than this current Tory government. They slashed government spending and devastated public services as a result. If they had done this and met their declared target of reducing national debt by 2014, I would say fair enough, they put this to the voters and delivered. But they did not, they did slash spending, with devastating affect, but proceeded to then double the national debt. Incompetence is not a strong enough word. Lesley, May well all be true. So vote for Corbyn, then get back to me in five years, and we`ll discuss the merits of your decision. William, my dear friend. Its Leslie. But to your point. Currently both parties are promising huge increases in spending. McDonnell has just announced another huge amount. I do buy the argument that if you invest, you invest fully to the amount required to meet a defined outcome. My personal reticence is based upon the base we start from. We are leveraged currently to about 80% of gdp. And we already running a budget deficit, annually.For reference, under Blair / Brown it was 47% before the financial crash. Unless the plans laid out are fully costed and benefits quantified we could be left with one hell of a hangover, weighed down with massive debt and interest payments (even allowing for the current low rates). My view is that the Tories, over the last 9 years, have badly scarred us both socially and economically. So f**k them and let's make an informed choice. |
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Post by Officer Barbrady on Nov 7, 2019 12:19:30 GMT
OK then, what if we recognised that about 3 minutes ago you and I both agreed that mega corporations should be made to pay their taxes. So you and I dont actually have to spend anything at all actually? Shall we do that? The UK eradicates homelessness and nobody is worse in the pocket. Imagine that. Something to be proud of no? Give some examples of these mega corporations....is one of them the manufacturer of your smartphone perchance? It's fairly easy to find them on a google search. Not sure about Samsung I imagine they are much the same. What's your point? Please dont try the I'm more responsible for Samsung not paying their corporation tax because I bought a samsung because that's just so weak. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2019 12:20:31 GMT
Lesley, May well all be true. So vote for Corbyn, then get back to me in five years, and we`ll discuss the merits of your decision. William, my dear friend. Its Leslie. But to your point. Currently both parties are promising huge increases in spending. McDonnell has just announced another huge amount. I do buy the argument that if you invest, you invest fully to the amount required to meet a defined outcome.My personal reticence is based upon the base we start from. We are leveraged currently to about 80% of gdp. And we already running a budget deficit, annually.For reference, under Blair / Brown it was 47% before the financial crash. Unless the plans laid out are fully costed and benefits quantified we could be left with one hell of a hangover, weighed down with massive debt and interest payments (even allowing for the current low rates). My view is that the Tories, over the last 9 years, have badly scarred us both socially and economically. So f**k them and let's make an informed choice. In reality, most government spending is not 'investment' though is it. The politicians like to use that word, but in truth it's just spending money. An investment usually means you get a return. Most government 'investment' just goes down the drain. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2019 12:22:33 GMT
OK then, what if we recognised that about 3 minutes ago you and I both agreed that mega corporations should be made to pay their taxes. So you and I dont actually have to spend anything at all actually? Shall we do that? The UK eradicates homelessness and nobody is worse in the pocket. Imagine that. Something to be proud of no? Give some examples of these mega corporations....is one of them the manufacturer of your smartphone perchance? For example The Pentland Group. They employ 41,000 people and paid £53.2m in Corporation Tax last year. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2019 12:26:52 GMT
I say again, any company can arrange their tax affairs anywhere within the EU Single Market........Luxembourg anyone?
The only way the UK can determine their own tax rules against these companies is to leave the EU. Simple. It's one of those nice economic bonuses of leaving the EU.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2019 12:30:30 GMT
Give some examples of these mega corporations....is one of them the manufacturer of your smartphone perchance? It's fairly easy to find them on a google search. Not sure about Samsung I imagine they are much the same. What's your point? Please dont try the I'm more responsible for Samsung not paying their corporation tax because I bought a samsung because that's just so weak. You imagine they're 'much the same' yet are willing to contribute to their profits. I don't understand. What about the homeless? |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2019 12:32:25 GMT
William, my dear friend. Its Leslie. But to your point. Currently both parties are promising huge increases in spending. McDonnell has just announced another huge amount. I do buy the argument that if you invest, you invest fully to the amount required to meet a defined outcome.My personal reticence is based upon the base we start from. We are leveraged currently to about 80% of gdp. And we already running a budget deficit, annually.For reference, under Blair / Brown it was 47% before the financial crash. Unless the plans laid out are fully costed and benefits quantified we could be left with one hell of a hangover, weighed down with massive debt and interest payments (even allowing for the current low rates). My view is that the Tories, over the last 9 years, have badly scarred us both socially and economically. So f**k them and let's make an informed choice. In reality, most government spending is not 'investment' though is it. The politicians like to use that word, but in truth it's just spending money. An investment usually means you get a return. Most government 'investment' just goes down the drain. It's fair point and a debate to be had. I would never, ever, advocate a government becoming involved in commercial activity where a ROI is measured. I do think you can split government spending between capital investment and annual running costs. A very simple example, the NHS. Building hospitals, buying equipment, is capital investment and can be put on the asset side of the balance sheet. Amortise if you will. Employing more doctors, nurses is P&L spend, which can be debated and funds applied according to availability. On the balance sheet items, I dont think commercial ROI ratios apply, as they are social investments to provide a service. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2019 12:34:06 GMT
I say again, any company can arrange their tax affairs anywhere within the EU Single Market........Luxembourg anyone? The only way the UK can determine their own tax rules against these companies is to leave the EU. Simple. It's one of those nice economic bonuses of leaving the EU. I say again, what % of German corporations have relocated to Luxembourg given the rate of tax is 34%? |
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Post by Officer Barbrady on Nov 7, 2019 12:35:31 GMT
It's fairly easy to find them on a google search. Not sure about Samsung I imagine they are much the same. What's your point? Please dont try the I'm more responsible for Samsung not paying their corporation tax because I bought a samsung because that's just so weak. You imagine they're 'much the same' yet are willing to contribute to their profits. I don't understand. What about the homeless? That's honestly the best you have? That's your best argument for corporations not paying their fair share of tax? That I should not buy a smartphone if I dont like it. Thats honestly the very best you could come up with to attack my argument? |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2019 12:39:08 GMT
You imagine they're 'much the same' yet are willing to contribute to their profits. I don't understand. What about the homeless? That's honestly the best you have? That's your best argument for corporations not paying their fair share of tax? That I should not buy a smartphone if I dont like it. Thats honestly the very best you could come up with to attack my argument? Surprised? |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2019 12:40:26 GMT
I say again, any company can arrange their tax affairs anywhere within the EU Single Market........Luxembourg anyone? The only way the UK can determine their own tax rules against these companies is to leave the EU. Simple. It's one of those nice economic bonuses of leaving the EU. I say again, what % of German corporations have relocated to Luxembourg given the rate of tax is 34%? Companies like Mercedes, BMW and VW pay next to nothing in Corporation Tax. The belief is that they provide hundreds of thousands of jobs and bring wealth and capital into the country. Over the years, they have lobbied the government to accept the fact they shouldn't pay Corporation Tax, and the politicians have agreed with them. It is the same with many other large German companies. |
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Post by Officer Barbrady on Nov 7, 2019 12:41:30 GMT
That's honestly the best you have? That's your best argument for corporations not paying their fair share of tax? That I should not buy a smartphone if I dont like it. Thats honestly the very best you could come up with to attack my argument? Surprised? Sadly not. I called it. It's just so weak. We all have to live in this society and most of us want to improve it though we have different ideas on how. His argument is basically go and live in the woods then. If we all did that society would just decay obviously. |
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Post by peterparker on Nov 7, 2019 12:45:44 GMT
It's fairly easy to find them on a google search. Not sure about Samsung I imagine they are much the same. What's your point? Please dont try the I'm more responsible for Samsung not paying their corporation tax because I bought a samsung because that's just so weak. You imagine they're 'much the same' yet are willing to contribute to their profits. I don't understand. What about the homeless? If you dont buy the phone, they dont make any money to pay tax |
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Post by Officer Barbrady on Nov 7, 2019 12:52:50 GMT
Oh I dont have a lot of faith dont get me wrong. But I do believe that inequality has worsened dramatically over the last 10 years under Tory rule (that's why we vote for them isnt it?). I'm talking about meaningful change to narrow the range between super rich and the abandoned, to better public services. To at least bring us in line with the average in European schooling. The one thing I have categorical belief in is that another Tory government would not narrow the gap enough, if at all. Is labour or lib dems the answer? I have no idea. Is tory the answer? Definitely not. You see, the fundamental for me is this question really. When faced with a human societal problem, do you pull together, compromise and support community? Or do you become insular, cynical and chastise? When you are on your death bed (this one is dramatic just humour me) do you want to be the guy that tried to help or do you want to be the guy that voted to make life just a little bit harder for those already in hardship and crisis? I doubt myself sometimes but I do still (just) believe in compassion and in people. I couldnt vote to extend suffering, it's not in my nature I guess. Oh FFS. I don`t believe that anybody on here, will be voting to extend suffering. If you think that increasing taxes and chucking money at the problem is the way forward, then you know who to vote for. Then, let`s see where we are in a couple of year`s time. I well remember the last hard left government we had. If they alleviated suffering, then I`m Keir Hardy. And of you think continuing to starve them of it is the solution, you know who to vote for too I suppose. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2019 12:54:42 GMT
I say again, what % of German corporations have relocated to Luxembourg given the rate of tax is 34%? Companies like Mercedes, BMW and VW pay next to nothing in Corporation Tax. The belief is that they provide hundreds of thousands of jobs and bring wealth and capital into the country. Over the years, they have lobbied the government to accept the fact they shouldn't pay Corporation Tax, and the politicians have agreed with them. It is the same with many other large German companies. It was genuine question as I dont know and you are far closer to it than me, and most on here. Have those companies, the car companies, actually relocated their registrations outside of Germany? |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2019 12:54:47 GMT
You imagine they're 'much the same' yet are willing to contribute to their profits. I don't understand. What about the homeless? If you dont buy the phone, they dont make any money to pay tax Ah, this is where it gets complicated. Let's use Starbuck's as an example, and I'll keep this simple. Starbuck's make a large profit in the UK, so they should be paying Corporation Tax. However, what they do is in effect buy their coffee from themselves, via a subsidiary company in Switzerland. With careful accounting they arrange that the price they pay to buy that coffee is more than the profit they make in the UK, therefore they are running at a loss in the UK. No profits mean no tax paid. Quite simple really. Once again though, where are these large companies headquartered? Where do they pay their tax? It's easy to shout that they have to pay their fair share, but you have to follow the rules to follow the money. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2019 12:59:36 GMT
Sadly not. I called it. It's just so weak. We all have to live in this society and most of us want to improve it though we have different ideas on how. His argument is basically go and live in the woods then. If we all did that society would just decay obviously. I honestly thought he was joking. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2019 13:00:21 GMT
Companies like Mercedes, BMW and VW pay next to nothing in Corporation Tax. The belief is that they provide hundreds of thousands of jobs and bring wealth and capital into the country. Over the years, they have lobbied the government to accept the fact they shouldn't pay Corporation Tax, and the politicians have agreed with them. It is the same with many other large German companies. It was genuine question as I dont know and you are far closer to it than me, and most on here. Have those companies, the car companies, actually relocated their registrations outside of Germany? I do know of one major company that you would instantly recognise as being a famous German company that is actually registered in Holland. The other factor with large companies paying corporation tax here is this argument. If the companies have more money to invest and spend (instead of paying Corporation Tax) then they can afford to pay their workers more, and hence, those workers earning more will pay more in personal tax. When you are literally talking about hundreds of thousands of workers this does make some sense. There is no doubt that workers at companies like Mercedes, BMW and VW are paid well above the normal, and they also receive many additional benefits by working for those companies. It also means that the company has more money to invest in things like R&D, which helps keep them ahead of their competitors and therefore repeating the cycle of success (hopefully!). |
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