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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2019 23:09:22 GMT
Tell me how the bar for “poverty” in the UK compares to those in many African countries, or in India for example. Massively disrespectful to moan about our lot when kids overseas have no healthcare, no education, no clean water and life expectancies lower than we had in the Middle Ages. Moan about wealth inequality by all means. Moan about the education for a Hartcliffe school boy compared to one attending Eton. Moan about someone waiting a few weeks for an operation when someone with BUPA cover gets their op in days. Moan about one kid wearing George at ASDA when his mate with wealthier parents wears Ralph Lauren. But please don’t try to paint the UK as somewhere where hundreds of thousands are living in poverty. With respect you sound like a conservative using absolute poverty as the baseline for the UK because it makes things sound better (as Johnson himself tried to do on Friday). Far greater minds than mine have set the poverty line at 60% below the median income after tax (for the Uk that’s some 17k or so) and I assume that there is a good reason for that and reflects what an acceptable standard of living is for people in that country. As far as I can see there is no asterisk next to that calculation followed by a footnote which says “actually poverty is really defined by what country you live in, there is no such thing as real poverty in the UK because at least in your mouldy flea bitten bedsit that you can barely afford you have got access to sewage”. It sounds like a wash to excuse the fact that there is so much income inequality in a country with the 5th richest economy and yet a housing system that is like a throwback to feudalism. If you can honestly be proud of that then I’m genuinely in awe of your mental fortitude. And using the definition of poverty you’ve quoted appeases socialists because it suits them better and supports their agenda. If the nation wants less income inequality then they can vote to get Corbyn and McDonnell into power. We can then have someone train for ten years to become a Consultant Neurosurgeon, wallop them with huge taxes and drive their income down to the level of someone who didn’t bother working hard at school and “opting out of society” to live off the state.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2019 23:13:48 GMT
With respect you sound like a conservative using absolute poverty as the baseline for the UK because it makes things sound better (as Johnson himself tried to do on Friday). Far greater minds than mine have set the poverty line at 60% below the median income after tax (for the Uk that’s some 17k or so) and I assume that there is a good reason for that and reflects what an acceptable standard of living is for people in that country. As far as I can see there is no asterisk next to that calculation followed by a footnote which says “actually poverty is really defined by what country you live in, there is no such thing as real poverty in the UK because at least in your mouldy flea bitten bedsit that you can barely afford you have got access to sewage”. It sounds like a wash to excuse the fact that there is so much income inequality in a country with the 5th richest economy and yet a housing system that is like a throwback to feudalism. If you can honestly be proud of that then I’m genuinely in awe of your mental fortitude. It's ok. There are Range Rovers and Bentleys in Knightsbridge, Clifton and Manchester. The stock market is doing well. Bankers are drawing big bonuses again. All is well in the UK. Some people in this country seem to have fallen for the USA, Russian or even Saudi view of life. If the rich are doing well, then that proves the country is doing well. The poor and unemployed are just losers and shirkers. We have moved a million miles from the successful Scandinavian model economy, one that we used to follow in many ways. Why such hatred for people who have done well? Unless I get lucky with the lottery I will never afford such things but I’ve made the most of the cards I’ve been dealt and have worked hard to lead a fairly comfortable life. There is so much jealousy and unpleasantness in this country - most of it coming from those who claim to be the most tolerant, caring members of society who politically reside on the far left.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2019 23:19:38 GMT
With respect you sound like a conservative using absolute poverty as the baseline for the UK because it makes things sound better (as Johnson himself tried to do on Friday). Far greater minds than mine have set the poverty line at 60% below the median income after tax (for the Uk that’s some 17k or so) and I assume that there is a good reason for that and reflects what an acceptable standard of living is for people in that country. As far as I can see there is no asterisk next to that calculation followed by a footnote which says “actually poverty is really defined by what country you live in, there is no such thing as real poverty in the UK because at least in your mouldy flea bitten bedsit that you can barely afford you have got access to sewage”. It sounds like a wash to excuse the fact that there is so much income inequality in a country with the 5th richest economy and yet a housing system that is like a throwback to feudalism. If you can honestly be proud of that then I’m genuinely in awe of your mental fortitude. And using the definition of poverty you’ve quoted appeases socialists because it suits them better and supports their agenda. If the nation wants less income inequality then they can vote to get Corbyn and McDonnell into power. We can then have someone train for ten years to become a Consultant Neurosurgeon, wallop them with huge taxes and drive their income down to the level of someone who didn’t bother working hard at school and “opting out of society” to live off the state. Give me some proof that the people who came up with the definition of poverty were socialists and I’ll buy into that way of thinking. In your last sentence you are speaking in such ridiculous black and white absolutes that it’s frankly not even worth replying to. It’s seriously insulting & disrespectful and makes no account or allowance for any empathy for, people who are dealt a sh** deal in life and couldn’t ever be a neurosurgeon. Not because of lack of lack of intelligence but because of lack of opportunity or physical or mental abuse in their childhood through no fault of their own that meant that all they will ever be is an nth of their true potential. Seriously mate, you’d do well to have a word with yourself if you genuinely have such a low opinion of people less fortunate than you.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2019 23:25:44 GMT
Where did I say there was no poverty in the UK? I’ve questioned the terminology and definition of what poverty actually means in comparison to other countries. I know many of you want to believe hundreds of thousands are living in poverty in the UK because we currently have a conservative government and there is a general election coming up - this suits your agenda and I get that. Myself and and my two sisters grew up in a council house in the 70’s. My dad didn’t have a well paid job so worked a few nights in the local pub whilst my mum fitted a bit of hairdressing alongside being a full-time mum. They chose not to waste what little money they had on beer, fags and tattoos and the priority was keeping us kids warm and well fed. I guess I grew up impoverished but never in my life have I considered that to be the case unless I judge my upbringing against the latest definitions of poverty. What would be your definition of poverty or preferred terminology? Being poor can be measured in different ways but is surely relative to the cost of living in a particular area or country. Where would you start? Is it down to where you live? The quality of the home you live in? The net income? Does it take into account how much money you have to pay for essentials? Can you be in poverty if you can afford to smoke several packets of fags per week? Do you factor in people who decide to have kids when they cannot afford them? Does not being able to afford a holiday qualify you as impoverished? Do you have access to healthcare? Do you have access to education? What I’m certain of is that in the UK we do not have hundreds of thousands of people living in poverty. We have hundreds of thousands of people who do not have the income they would like or lead a lifestyle that they see others have and are envious of.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2019 23:40:13 GMT
It's ok. There are Range Rovers and Bentleys in Knightsbridge, Clifton and Manchester. The stock market is doing well. Bankers are drawing big bonuses again. All is well in the UK. Some people in this country seem to have fallen for the USA, Russian or even Saudi view of life. If the rich are doing well, then that proves the country is doing well. The poor and unemployed are just losers and shirkers. We have moved a million miles from the successful Scandinavian model economy, one that we used to follow in many ways. Why such hatred for people who have done well? Unless I get lucky with the lottery I will never afford such things but I’ve made the most of the cards I’ve been dealt and have worked hard to lead a fairly comfortable life. There is so much jealousy and unpleasantness in this country - most of it coming from those who claim to be the most tolerant, caring members of society who politically reside on the far left. *I’ve* *I’ve *I’ve* - so because you have made it everyone else should too and if they don’t it’s their own fault? That’s the core issue (and probably the big issue with the Tory point of view as a whole) it is myopic beyond belief and assumes that life is a complete meritocracy where everyone has the same opportunities when nothing could be further from the truth *especially* in the current day and age when there is such disparity for kids from a low income background vs kids from a middle/upper class background. My school was so water poor it was torn down a few years back. You couldn’t focus on your studies because every day was about pure survival and trying to avoid falling foul of the drug dealers in the top year who ran the school like a mafia enterprise and yet you know what? I think myself lucky for the meagre education I had because I would hate to be a school pupil these days in an inner city London comprehensive where the prospect of getting knifed on a daily basis probably concentrated the mind a hell of a lot more than learning calculus. What hope have these kids got? From the way you speak they are simply collateral damage and have to look out for themselves purely by dint of being unlucky to be born into that life. Honestly, it’s no Dam wonder they turn to crime if your “tough sh**, kid! ” attitude is what they are met with when they look to society for a kind voice.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2019 23:42:26 GMT
And using the definition of poverty you’ve quoted appeases socialists because it suits them better and supports their agenda. If the nation wants less income inequality then they can vote to get Corbyn and McDonnell into power. We can then have someone train for ten years to become a Consultant Neurosurgeon, wallop them with huge taxes and drive their income down to the level of someone who didn’t bother working hard at school and “opting out of society” to live off the state. Give me some proof that the people who came up with the definition of poverty were socialists and I’ll buy into that way of thinking. In your last sentence you are speaking in such ridiculous black and white absolutes that it’s frankly not even worth replying to. It’s seriously insulting & disrespectful and makes no account or allowance for any empathy for, people who are dealt a sh** deal in life and couldn’t ever be a neurosurgeon. Not because of lack of lack of intelligence but because of lack of opportunity or physical or mental abuse in their childhood through no fault of their own that meant that all they will ever be is an nth of their true potential. Seriously mate, you’d do well to have a word with yourself if you genuinely have such a low opinion of people less fortunate than you. I never said that definition of poverty was created by socialists. I said that version being used suits the socialist agenda. Is it not those absolute “black and whites” that hardcore socialists crave? If you want to totally eradicate inequality then you have to take the grey middle area out of it and make everyone equal. Anything less than that would lead to inequality growing again due to “battle of the fittest” those more ambitious and driven would start doing better until such time as they are dragged back down into line. I note the “black and white absolutes” and generalisations are ok when being used to attack Tories. I wonder how many times the phrases “looking out for their rich banker mates” has been spat out on this thread. Btw I think it’s you that should take a look at yourself. It sounds like you are writing people off ever being a success in life because they had a troubled start. There are loads of examples of people making a success of their lives and not just from a financial perspective despite a tough start to life. Making excuses for them before they even start helps no one. It’s a bit like the excuse desperate defence lawyers put forward in mitigation for their clients misdemeanours. “It’s not my clients fault, he had a tough upbringing, he chose to start taking drugs and didn’t mean to batter the pensioner who’s home he burgled”
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2019 0:03:17 GMT
Why such hatred for people who have done well? Unless I get lucky with the lottery I will never afford such things but I’ve made the most of the cards I’ve been dealt and have worked hard to lead a fairly comfortable life. There is so much jealousy and unpleasantness in this country - most of it coming from those who claim to be the most tolerant, caring members of society who politically reside on the far left. *I’ve* *I’ve *I’ve* - so because you have made it everyone else should too and if they don’t it’s their own fault? That’s the core issue (and probably the big issue with the Tory point of view as a whole) it is myopic beyond belief and assumes that life is a complete meritocracy where everyone has the same opportunities when nothing could be further from the truth *especially* in the current day and age when there is such disparity for kids from a low income background vs kids from a middle/upper class background. My school was so water poor it was torn down a few years back. You couldn’t focus on your studies because every day was about pure survival and trying to avoid falling foul of the drug dealers in the top year who ran the school like a mafia enterprise and yet you know what? I think myself lucky for the meagre education I had because I would hate to be a school pupil these days in an inner city London comprehensive where the prospect of getting knifed on a daily basis probably concentrated the mind a hell of a lot more than learning calculus. What hope have these kids got? From the way you speak they are simply collateral damage and have to look out for themselves purely by dint of being unlucky to be born into that life. Honestly, it’s no f**king wonder they turn to crime if your “tough sh**, kid! ” attitude is what they are met with when they look to society for a kind voice. The softly softly approach to crime in this country and giving people the benefit of the doubt all the time is the problem, we never punish people properly, putting villains rights first rather than protecting normal people. Perhaps a more robust “right wing” government may have helped the area you grew up. A school being run by drug dealers sounds a bit far fetched but helps your argument. I agree that life in certain areas of London is tough with all the knife crime and gang culture. Having a liberal government is not going to fix this. Increased stop and search without fear of being branded “institutionally racist” would help. Anyone caught in possession of a knife should be locked up for life. Anyone dealing drugs lock them up for life. Take all these scumbags out of society and the “tough start” excuses could become a thing of the past. I cant think this liberal, PC world in which we currently live would ever support such a tough stance so it ain’t going to get better. It’s the modern leftie attitudes that created these environments not Tories
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stuart1974
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Post by stuart1974 on Dec 8, 2019 0:08:10 GMT
What would be your definition of poverty or preferred terminology? Being poor can be measured in different ways but is surely relative to the cost of living in a particular area or country. Where would you start? Is it down to where you live? The quality of the home you live in? The net income? Does it take into account how much money you have to pay for essentials? Can you be in poverty if you can afford to smoke several packets of fags per week? Do you factor in people who decide to have kids when they cannot afford them? Does not being able to afford a holiday qualify you as impoverished? Do you have access to healthcare? Do you have access to education? What I’m certain of is that in the UK we do not have hundreds of thousands of people living in poverty. We have hundreds of thousands of people who do not have the income they would like or lead a lifestyle that they see others have and are envious of. The Joseph Rowntree Foundation report in 2018 stated over 1.5m people are classed as destitute, that is cannot afford shelter, clothing and food. www.jrf.org.uk/our-work/what-is-poverty
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2019 0:26:03 GMT
Where would you start? Is it down to where you live? The quality of the home you live in? The net income? Does it take into account how much money you have to pay for essentials? Can you be in poverty if you can afford to smoke several packets of fags per week? Do you factor in people who decide to have kids when they cannot afford them? Does not being able to afford a holiday qualify you as impoverished? Do you have access to healthcare? Do you have access to education? What I’m certain of is that in the UK we do not have hundreds of thousands of people living in poverty. We have hundreds of thousands of people who do not have the income they would like or lead a lifestyle that they see others have and are envious of. The Joseph Rowntree Foundation report in 2018 stated over 1.5m people are classed as destitute, that is cannot afford shelter, clothing and food. www.jrf.org.uk/our-work/what-is-povertySo they think over one in every 50 people in this country are destitute and cannot afford to shelter, eat or buy clothes themselves?Sounds a bit far fetched to me.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2019 0:27:44 GMT
Give me some proof that the people who came up with the definition of poverty were socialists and I’ll buy into that way of thinking. In your last sentence you are speaking in such ridiculous black and white absolutes that it’s frankly not even worth replying to. It’s seriously insulting & disrespectful and makes no account or allowance for any empathy for, people who are dealt a sh** deal in life and couldn’t ever be a neurosurgeon. Not because of lack of lack of intelligence but because of lack of opportunity or physical or mental abuse in their childhood through no fault of their own that meant that all they will ever be is an nth of their true potential. Seriously mate, you’d do well to have a word with yourself if you genuinely have such a low opinion of people less fortunate than you. I never said that definition of poverty was created by socialists. I said that version being used suits the socialist agenda. Is it not those absolute “black and whites” that hardcore socialists crave? If you want to totally eradicate inequality then you have to take the grey middle area out of it and make everyone equal. Anything less than that would lead to inequality growing again due to “battle of the fittest” those more ambitious and driven would start doing better until such time as they are dragged back down into line. I note the “black and white absolutes” and generalisations are ok when being used to attack Tories. I wonder how many times the phrases “looking out for their rich banker mates” has been spat out on this thread. Btw I think it’s you that should take a look at yourself. It sounds like you are writing people off ever being a success in life because they had a troubled start. There are loads of examples of people making a success of their lives and not just from a financial perspective despite a tough start to life. Making excuses for them before they even start helps no one. It’s a bit like the excuse desperate defence lawyers put forward in mitigation for their clients misdemeanours. “It’s not my clients fault, he had a tough upbringing, he chose to start taking drugs and didn’t mean to batter the pensioner who’s home he burgled” Strewth man you make it sound so easy, it’s a wonder there is such a knife crime epidemic on because these guys are all just captains of industry who just can’t seem to apply themselves properly. :rollseyes: Sure there are success stories of course they are, but what percentage of the whole are they? How many have the best of intentions but can’t escape their circumstances? Those people should have some hope in terms of an adequate standard of living provided they pay their taxes and work hard. You act like that’s affront to the sensibilities of your hunger games-esque capitalist utopia where the poor suffer for your amusement. It’s about solving poverty not inequality. Inequality is the principle upon which your beloved free market capitalist system is built upon. If you don’t have people at the bottom nothing in the system has any value, but as I’ve said before the least we could do for the poor who flip our burgers and scrub our toilets and give our assets their value is give them enough utility from their wages that once they have paid their rent they can afford to clothe their kids, have a night out once a month and not have to use a food bank to survive even whilst they are working. You act like you wouldn’t even give them that, like even the steam off your water is gold plated. Honestly it’s conversations like this that make me glad in many ways I’ve had the life I’ve had and got the perspective I have because at least I can say that I’ve got a soul.
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Post by stuart1974 on Dec 8, 2019 1:31:19 GMT
So they think over one in every 50 people in this country are destitute and cannot afford to shelter, eat or buy clothes themselves?Sounds a bit far fetched to me. Did you read the report in the link? Put it another way, how much do you need to cover the basics of rent, food and fuel? Fuel £30pw? The cheapest rent price in the UK is £450pm, food at £30pw? That is £170+pw already. Over 3m people live in homes with less that £195pw. The Children's Society report that third of children (4m!!!) are classed as in poverty. A couple with two children living in poverty has less than £58 per day – that’s £15 each (after housing costs) to pay for food, bills, childcare, transport, household items, clothes and other expenses like school trips or children’s activities. Children living in poverty are more likely to: Have poor physical health Experience mental health problems Have low sense of well-being Underachieve at school Have employment difficulties in adult life Experience social deprivation Feel unsafe Experience stigma and bullying at school. ttps://www.childrenssociety.org.uk/what-we-do/our-work/ending-child-poverty/what-is-child-poverty Sorry Eric, it is real.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2019 3:12:59 GMT
So they think over one in every 50 people in this country are destitute and cannot afford to shelter, eat or buy clothes themselves?Sounds a bit far fetched to me. Did you read the report in the link? Put it another way, how much do you need to cover the basics of rent, food and fuel? Fuel £30pw? The cheapest rent price in the UK is £450pm, food at £30pw? That is £170+pw already. Over 3m people live in homes with less that £195pw. The Children's Society report that third of children (4m!!!) are classed as in poverty. A couple with two children living in poverty has less than £58 per day – that’s £15 each (after housing costs) to pay for food, bills, childcare, transport, household items, clothes and other expenses like school trips or children’s activities. Children living in poverty are more likely to: Have poor physical health Experience mental health problems Have low sense of well-being Underachieve at school Have employment difficulties in adult life Experience social deprivation Feel unsafe Experience stigma and bullying at school. ttps://www.childrenssociety.org.uk/what-we-do/our-work/ending-child-poverty/what-is-child-poverty Sorry Eric, it is real. Good effort but there is none so blind as those who will not see.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2019 7:41:57 GMT
I never said that definition of poverty was created by socialists. I said that version being used suits the socialist agenda. Is it not those absolute “black and whites” that hardcore socialists crave? If you want to totally eradicate inequality then you have to take the grey middle area out of it and make everyone equal. Anything less than that would lead to inequality growing again due to “battle of the fittest” those more ambitious and driven would start doing better until such time as they are dragged back down into line. I note the “black and white absolutes” and generalisations are ok when being used to attack Tories. I wonder how many times the phrases “looking out for their rich banker mates” has been spat out on this thread. Btw I think it’s you that should take a look at yourself. It sounds like you are writing people off ever being a success in life because they had a troubled start. There are loads of examples of people making a success of their lives and not just from a financial perspective despite a tough start to life. Making excuses for them before they even start helps no one. It’s a bit like the excuse desperate defence lawyers put forward in mitigation for their clients misdemeanours. “It’s not my clients fault, he had a tough upbringing, he chose to start taking drugs and didn’t mean to batter the pensioner who’s home he burgled” Strewth man you make it sound so easy, it’s a wonder there is such a knife crime epidemic on because these guys are all just captains of industry who just can’t seem to apply themselves properly. :rollseyes: Sure there are success stories of course they are, but what percentage of the whole are they? How many have the best of intentions but can’t escape their circumstances? Those people should have some hope in terms of an adequate standard of living provided they pay their taxes and work hard. You act like that’s affront to the sensibilities of your hunger games-esque capitalist utopia where the poor suffer for your amusement. It’s about solving poverty not inequality. Inequality is the principle upon which your beloved free market capitalist system is built upon. If you don’t have people at the bottom nothing in the system has any value, but as I’ve said before the least we could do for the poor who flip our burgers and scrub our toilets and give our assets their value is give them enough utility from their wages that once they have paid their rent they can afford to clothe their kids, have a night out once a month and not have to use a food bank to survive even whilst they are working. You act like you wouldn’t even give them that, like even the steam off your water is gold plated. Honestly it’s conversations like this that make me glad in many ways I’ve had the life I’ve had and got the perspective I have because at least I can say that I’ve got a soul. Spin and twist my comments my comments as much as you like. I’ve said everyone has an opportunity to be a success, i’ve not said every gang member or knife carrier is a “Captain of Industry” in waiting. You spoke earlier of me talking in black and white absolutes and yet here you are talking about the choice is either to be a knife wielding gang member or be a “Captain of Industry”. Success is relative, not everyone can have 25 rip roaring years as a city high flier but there is an alternative of becoming a plumber, an electrician, police officer, or millions of other careers. Many of my school friends who did less well in exams went into trades and are now among the bigger earners from my school days, doing better than me who went into insurance after a-levels and trying to work my way up a slippery ladder! Take the villains who who are ruining lives of others off the street permanently. I hear there is nothing for teenagers to do these days so that they have no choice but to undertake hobbies such as muggings and drug running. Perhaps we should open a million youth clubs that will solve everything. I’m sure the gang members will happily drop their aspirations to become rich through crime and opt for a game of table tennis instead. You can can try to paint me as some evil character as much as you like but I’m all in favour of having a benefits system. I want one that is fair and supports those most in need and does not provide an alternative lifestyle for those who can’t be bothered to work. Why was a benefit system created? Was it not as a last resort to help people for a short period of time during hard times, something people appreciated whilst they got back on their feet. The benefit system has morphed in to a monster and needs sorting out. As I’ve said a number of times before I’m in favour of people with genuine needs receiving far higher benefits. I don’t want that funded by “asking the wealthiest in society to just pay a little bit more” as Corbyn suggests for everything else. Fund it by taking benefit away from people who choose a lifestyle where they sit at home contributing zilch. Take it away from people claiming to be stressed (not true mental illness). Stop paying benefits to people arriving in the UK who have made no contribution. Cut unnecessary areas of tax avoidance, that applies to multi nationals, SME’s and sole traders.
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Post by yetigas on Dec 8, 2019 7:49:20 GMT
By the way, I am still waiting for an answer to the question someone posed several pages ago, asking to name one positive policy of the Tories that persuades people to vote for them. Liar Johnson is dangerous and the thought of him being PM for 5 years is truly frightening. Best to vote for whichever candidate has the best chance of defeating the Tories in your constituency. In my case its Labour, but I would happily vote for another party if that candidate was better placed to defeat the Tory. Really? More frightening than having a racist terrorism supporter in charge of our country? Boris may cause some embarrassment with his colourful private life or a misplaced quip but dangerous? Get real. There is only one dangerous individual looking to get into power, the one thought too extreme by his own colleagues to have ever been given a position of responsibility and is only in his position as a puppet for the likes of Len McClusky. To characterize Jeremy Corbyn as a 'racist terrorism supporter' says more about you than him. Johnson has a consistent history of racist remarks, and to dismiss them as '...a misplaced quip...' is dangerous as it seems to view racism very lightly, and also reflects on your own views very poorly. Frankly I don't care much about his private life - what I do care about is the policies of his party and how they damage people in this country (apart from his wealthy friends). Trying to portray Jeremy Corbyn as somehow more racist than the Liar Johnson really is a complete joke and if you (and others) really believe that then I despair.
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Post by stuart1974 on Dec 8, 2019 7:49:48 GMT
Strewth man you make it sound so easy, it’s a wonder there is such a knife crime epidemic on because these guys are all just captains of industry who just can’t seem to apply themselves properly. :rollseyes: Sure there are success stories of course they are, but what percentage of the whole are they? How many have the best of intentions but can’t escape their circumstances? Those people should have some hope in terms of an adequate standard of living provided they pay their taxes and work hard. You act like that’s affront to the sensibilities of your hunger games-esque capitalist utopia where the poor suffer for your amusement. It’s about solving poverty not inequality. Inequality is the principle upon which your beloved free market capitalist system is built upon. If you don’t have people at the bottom nothing in the system has any value, but as I’ve said before the least we could do for the poor who flip our burgers and scrub our toilets and give our assets their value is give them enough utility from their wages that once they have paid their rent they can afford to clothe their kids, have a night out once a month and not have to use a food bank to survive even whilst they are working. You act like you wouldn’t even give them that, like even the steam off your water is gold plated. Honestly it’s conversations like this that make me glad in many ways I’ve had the life I’ve had and got the perspective I have because at least I can say that I’ve got a soul. Spin and twist my comments my comments as much as you like. I’ve said everyone has an opportunity to be a success, i’ve not said every gang member or knife carrier is a “Captain of Industry” in waiting. You spoke earlier of me talking in black and white absolutes and yet here you are talking about the choice is either to be a knife wielding gang member or be a “Captain of Industry”. Success is relative, not everyone can have 25 rip roaring years as a city high flier but there is an alternative of becoming a plumber, an electrician, police officer, or millions of other careers. Many of my school friends who did less well in exams went into trades and are now among the bigger earners from my school days, doing better than me who went into insurance after a-levels and trying to work my way up a slippery ladder! Take the villains who who are ruining lives of others off the street permanently. I hear there is nothing for teenagers to do these days so that they have no choice but to undertake hobbies such as muggings and drug running. Perhaps we should open a million youth clubs that will solve everything. I’m sure the gang members will happily drop their aspirations to become rich through crime and opt for a game of table tennis instead. You can can try to paint me as some evil character as much as you like but I’m all in favour of having a benefits system. I want one that is fair and supports those most in need and does not provide an alternative lifestyle for those who can’t be bothered to work. Why was a benefit system created? Was it not as a last resort to help people for a short period of time during hard times, something people appreciated whilst they got back on their feet. The benefit system has morphed in to a monster and needs sorting out. As I’ve said a number of times before I’m in favour of people with genuine needs receiving far higher benefits. I don’t want that funded by “asking the wealthiest in society to just pay a little bit more” as Corbyn suggests for everything else. Fund it by taking benefit away from people who choose a lifestyle where they sit at home contributing zilch. Take it away from people claiming to be stressed (not true mental illness). Stop paying benefits to people arriving in the UK who have made no contribution. Cut unnecessary areas of tax avoidance, that applies to multi nationals, SME’s and sole traders. Out of interest, do you have any figures for those who you believe abuse the system?
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Post by yetigas on Dec 8, 2019 8:01:16 GMT
Strewth man you make it sound so easy, it’s a wonder there is such a knife crime epidemic on because these guys are all just captains of industry who just can’t seem to apply themselves properly. :rollseyes: Sure there are success stories of course they are, but what percentage of the whole are they? How many have the best of intentions but can’t escape their circumstances? Those people should have some hope in terms of an adequate standard of living provided they pay their taxes and work hard. You act like that’s affront to the sensibilities of your hunger games-esque capitalist utopia where the poor suffer for your amusement. It’s about solving poverty not inequality. Inequality is the principle upon which your beloved free market capitalist system is built upon. If you don’t have people at the bottom nothing in the system has any value, but as I’ve said before the least we could do for the poor who flip our burgers and scrub our toilets and give our assets their value is give them enough utility from their wages that once they have paid their rent they can afford to clothe their kids, have a night out once a month and not have to use a food bank to survive even whilst they are working. You act like you wouldn’t even give them that, like even the steam off your water is gold plated. Honestly it’s conversations like this that make me glad in many ways I’ve had the life I’ve had and got the perspective I have because at least I can say that I’ve got a soul. Spin and twist my comments my comments as much as you like. I’ve said everyone has an opportunity to be a success, i’ve not said every gang member or knife carrier is a “Captain of Industry” in waiting. You spoke earlier of me talking in black and white absolutes and yet here you are talking about the choice is either to be a knife wielding gang member or be a “Captain of Industry”. Success is relative, not everyone can have 25 rip roaring years as a city high flier but there is an alternative of becoming a plumber, an electrician, police officer, or millions of other careers. Many of my school friends who did less well in exams went into trades and are now among the bigger earners from my school days, doing better than me who went into insurance after a-levels and trying to work my way up a slippery ladder! Take the villains who who are ruining lives of others off the street permanently. I hear there is nothing for teenagers to do these days so that they have no choice but to undertake hobbies such as muggings and drug running. Perhaps we should open a million youth clubs that will solve everything. I’m sure the gang members will happily drop their aspirations to become rich through crime and opt for a game of table tennis instead. You can can try to paint me as some evil character as much as you like but I’m all in favour of having a benefits system. I want one that is fair and supports those most in need and does not provide an alternative lifestyle for those who can’t be bothered to work. Why was a benefit system created? Was it not as a last resort to help people for a short period of time during hard times, something people appreciated whilst they got back on their feet. The benefit system has morphed in to a monster and needs sorting out. As I’ve said a number of times before I’m in favour of people with genuine needs receiving far higher benefits. I don’t want that funded by “asking the wealthiest in society to just pay a little bit more” as Corbyn suggests for everything else. Fund it by taking benefit away from people who choose a lifestyle where they sit at home contributing zilch. Take it away from people claiming to be stressed (not true mental illness). Stop paying benefits to people arriving in the UK who have made no contribution. Cut unnecessary areas of tax avoidance, that applies to multi nationals, SME’s and sole traders. Just out of interest, why should the wealthiest in society not pay a little bit more?
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Post by William Wilson on Dec 8, 2019 8:27:11 GMT
Really? More frightening than having a racist terrorism supporter in charge of our country? Boris may cause some embarrassment with his colourful private life or a misplaced quip but dangerous? Get real. There is only one dangerous individual looking to get into power, the one thought too extreme by his own colleagues to have ever been given a position of responsibility and is only in his position as a puppet for the likes of Len McClusky. To characterize Jeremy Corbyn as a 'racist terrorism supporter' says more about you than him. He described an organization who have called for the extermination of the Jews, his "friends". Your defence of him, tells me a lot about you. I`m no fan of BJ, but what he has said or done that is comparable JC`s remarks?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2019 9:09:38 GMT
Spin and twist my comments my comments as much as you like. I’ve said everyone has an opportunity to be a success, i’ve not said every gang member or knife carrier is a “Captain of Industry” in waiting. You spoke earlier of me talking in black and white absolutes and yet here you are talking about the choice is either to be a knife wielding gang member or be a “Captain of Industry”. Success is relative, not everyone can have 25 rip roaring years as a city high flier but there is an alternative of becoming a plumber, an electrician, police officer, or millions of other careers. Many of my school friends who did less well in exams went into trades and are now among the bigger earners from my school days, doing better than me who went into insurance after a-levels and trying to work my way up a slippery ladder! Take the villains who who are ruining lives of others off the street permanently. I hear there is nothing for teenagers to do these days so that they have no choice but to undertake hobbies such as muggings and drug running. Perhaps we should open a million youth clubs that will solve everything. I’m sure the gang members will happily drop their aspirations to become rich through crime and opt for a game of table tennis instead. You can can try to paint me as some evil character as much as you like but I’m all in favour of having a benefits system. I want one that is fair and supports those most in need and does not provide an alternative lifestyle for those who can’t be bothered to work. Why was a benefit system created? Was it not as a last resort to help people for a short period of time during hard times, something people appreciated whilst they got back on their feet. The benefit system has morphed in to a monster and needs sorting out. As I’ve said a number of times before I’m in favour of people with genuine needs receiving far higher benefits. I don’t want that funded by “asking the wealthiest in society to just pay a little bit more” as Corbyn suggests for everything else. Fund it by taking benefit away from people who choose a lifestyle where they sit at home contributing zilch. Take it away from people claiming to be stressed (not true mental illness). Stop paying benefits to people arriving in the UK who have made no contribution. Cut unnecessary areas of tax avoidance, that applies to multi nationals, SME’s and sole traders. Just out of interest, why should the wealthiest in society not pay a little bit more? They already do. The top 5% pay approx. 51% of all Income Tax received by the government.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2019 9:37:23 GMT
Just out of interest, why should the wealthiest in society not pay a little bit more? They already do. The top 5% pay approx. 51% of all Income Tax received by the government. Dollars to doughnuts they have some form of legal/illegal tax avoidance going on before the tax is taken from their accounts, but that aside it’s hard to disagree. How corporation tax has been brought as low as 19% is a head scratcher though. The individual low income tax bracket is 20% isn’t it?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2019 9:38:27 GMT
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