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Post by yetigas on Dec 7, 2019 17:26:59 GMT
By the way, I am still waiting for an answer to the question someone posed several pages ago, asking to name one positive policy of the Tories that persuades people to vote for them. Liar Johnson is dangerous and the thought of him being PM for 5 years is truly frightening. Best to vote for whichever candidate has the best chance of defeating the Tories in your constituency. In my case its Labour, but I would happily vote for another party if that candidate was better placed to defeat the Tory.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2019 18:03:06 GMT
www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50700874Anti-semitism in the tory party? Surely not. Interesting that one of the accused is the woman discussed earlier who said that disabled people don’t understand money. Clearly, she needs to work on her delivery when discussing Jews and the disabled.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2019 18:56:57 GMT
By the way, I am still waiting for an answer to the question someone posed several pages ago, asking to name one positive policy of the Tories that persuades people to vote for them. Liar Johnson is dangerous and the thought of him being PM for 5 years is truly frightening. Best to vote for whichever candidate has the best chance of defeating the Tories in your constituency. In my case its Labour, but I would happily vote for another party if that candidate was better placed to defeat the Tory. Really? More frightening than having a racist terrorism supporter in charge of our country? Boris may cause some embarrassment with his colourful private life or a misplaced quip but dangerous? Get real. There is only one dangerous individual looking to get into power, the one thought too extreme by his own colleagues to have ever been given a position of responsibility and is only in his position as a puppet for the likes of Len McClusky.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2019 19:04:31 GMT
It would have been easier to negotiate a successful exit were it not for the saboteurs who tried to disrupt and delay at every opportunity. Treacherous. Depends what you define as a successful exit- everyone voted to pass article 50, that can’t be denied no matter what colour rosette you wear. Then it was down to the Tories who had 2 whole years to negotiate. Where were the saboteurs and treachery during those 2 years? The fact is people had no idea that it was going to play out the way it has and that it was going to be as contrary to what they have been told it has. Not to mention the lies that the initial leave campaign was built on. That being said I’m slowly starting to realise that it really doesn’t matter about what the fantasy of Brexit is vs the reality or whether people were lied to. People don’t care. There is a part of the UK that would literally sacrifice their first born on an altar if meant them getting any form of Brexit and you just can’t argue or rationalise with people who are that determined to get what they feel is good for them (not the rest of the country, for them). As I’ve said all along, I just hope people can stand by the choices they make and say that it’s in their name, because as much as I’d love to think that every poster in this thread will be lighting cigars with £50 notes in 5 years time and a fair few of us eating humble pie I seriously think it’s not going to turn out like that and some people are in for a nasty surprise. We’ll see.... All the parties agreed to uphold and support the outcome of a referendum. Whichever party was in government had a duty to secure an exit on the best terms possible. The divided country with the likes of Labour and Lib Dem's blocking and delaying at every opportunity, outsiders with vested interests dragging us through the courts and the vocal public minority making as much noise as possible meant we were negotiating with one arm tied behind our backs. We gave the EU the confidence to play hard ball whereas a united UK would have been able to negotiate far more strongly. I don’t see why treachery should be considered such a strong term for the individuals and groups who put their own selfish beliefs before that of their country.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2019 19:05:01 GMT
By the way, I am still waiting for an answer to the question someone posed several pages ago, asking to name one positive policy of the Tories that persuades people to vote for them. Liar Johnson is dangerous and the thought of him being PM for 5 years is truly frightening. Best to vote for whichever candidate has the best chance of defeating the Tories in your constituency. In my case its Labour, but I would happily vote for another party if that candidate was better placed to defeat the Tory. Really? More frightening than having a racist terrorism supporter in charge of our country? Boris may cause some embarrassment with his colourful private life or a misplaced quip but dangerous? Get real. There is only one dangerous individual looking to get into power, the one thought too extreme by his own colleagues to have ever been given a position of responsibility and is only in his position as a puppet for the likes of Len McClusky. With poverty levels as they are I’d say that Boris was potentially very dangerous. The role of prime minister means you don’t have to wear a balaclava in order to put the fear of God into the vulnerable.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2019 19:13:20 GMT
Really? More frightening than having a racist terrorism supporter in charge of our country? Boris may cause some embarrassment with his colourful private life or a misplaced quip but dangerous? Get real. There is only one dangerous individual looking to get into power, the one thought too extreme by his own colleagues to have ever been given a position of responsibility and is only in his position as a puppet for the likes of Len McClusky. With poverty levels as they are I’d say that Boris was potentially very dangerous. The role of prime minister means you don’t have to wear a balaclava in order to put the fear of God into the vulnerable. Go overseas to see real poverty. People are willing to risk their lives in rubber dinghy’s crossing one of the worlds busiest shipping routes to experience a bit of our poverty.
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Post by Officer Barbrady on Dec 7, 2019 19:15:11 GMT
With poverty levels as they are I’d say that Boris was potentially very dangerous. The role of prime minister means you don’t have to wear a balaclava in order to put the fear of God into the vulnerable. Go overseas to see real poverty. People are willing to risk their lives in rubber dinghy’s crossing one of the worlds busiest shipping routes to experience a bit of our poverty. Do you mean to flee war torn countries that more often than not we've bombed the sh** out of?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2019 19:21:58 GMT
With poverty levels as they are I’d say that Boris was potentially very dangerous. The role of prime minister means you don’t have to wear a balaclava in order to put the fear of God into the vulnerable. Go overseas to see real poverty. People are willing to risk their lives in rubber dinghy’s crossing one of the worlds busiest shipping routes to experience a bit of our poverty. Come on Eric, tell us how “bloody kids don’t know what poverty is these days!”
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2019 20:10:30 GMT
The biggest example of how democratic the main parties are is best exhibited by how they dealt with the referendum. The conservatives have tried their best to honour the democratic choice of the people, labour has sought to hinder progress at every stage whilst the liberal “democrats” have just chosen to completely ignore the will of the people because they know best. if you want genuine democracy there is only one way to vote and most people will be sensible enough to do so giving us a conservative government with a sizeable majority. The media has no bearing on my choice of vote but I’m looking forward to seeing the newspapers headlines on Thursday. Will there be a “last one out please turn off the lights” leading the way!!! People did not vote for a 'no deal Brexit' which is what you are likely to get if you are foolish enough to vote for Liar Johnson. Neither did they vote for a 'deal Brexit', nor a 'no deal Brexit'. They just voted to Leave. It was the politicians who got us where we are by signing Maastricht and Lisbon. They got us into this mess, now they have to get us out. Maybe they should have had the referendum before signing the Lisbon Treaty, when it was known as the EU Constitution, which by law would have required a referendum in the UK.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2019 20:13:47 GMT
Go overseas to see real poverty. People are willing to risk their lives in rubber dinghy’s crossing one of the worlds busiest shipping routes to experience a bit of our poverty. Come on Eric, tell us how “bloody kids don’t know what poverty is these days!” Tell me how the bar for “poverty” in the UK compares to those in many African countries, or in India for example. Massively disrespectful to moan about our lot when kids overseas have no healthcare, no education, no clean water and life expectancies lower than we had in the Middle Ages. Moan about wealth inequality by all means. Moan about the education for a Hartcliffe school boy compared to one attending Eton. Moan about someone waiting a few weeks for an operation when someone with BUPA cover gets their op in days. Moan about one kid wearing George at ASDA when his mate with wealthier parents wears Ralph Lauren. But please don’t try to paint the UK as somewhere where hundreds of thousands are living in poverty.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2019 20:20:01 GMT
Go overseas to see real poverty. People are willing to risk their lives in rubber dinghy’s crossing one of the worlds busiest shipping routes to experience a bit of our poverty. Do you mean to flee war torn countries that more often than not we've bombed the sh** out of? So we don’t have any economic migrants and everyone that does travel through numerous countries to reach the UK only does so because we’ve “bombed the sh** out of them”? Perhaps you could list the countries “we’ve bombed the sh** out of” and we can do a bit of investigating to check that the number of migrants from any country not on your list is confirmed to be Zero.
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Post by yetigas on Dec 7, 2019 21:18:37 GMT
Come on Eric, tell us how “bloody kids don’t know what poverty is these days!” Tell me how the bar for “poverty” in the UK compares to those in many African countries, or in India for example. Massively disrespectful to moan about our lot when kids overseas have no healthcare, no education, no clean water and life expectancies lower than we had in the Middle Ages. Moan about wealth inequality by all means. Moan about the education for a Hartcliffe school boy compared to one attending Eton. Moan about someone waiting a few weeks for an operation when someone with BUPA cover gets their op in days. Moan about one kid wearing George at ASDA when his mate with wealthier parents wears Ralph Lauren. But please don’t try to paint the UK as somewhere where hundreds of thousands are living in poverty. During my lifetime I have worked both in UK and in Asia/Africa addressing poverty issues - there is poverty, to varying degrees of course, everywhere. Sad to say, but to suggest that there is no poverty in UK is just wrong. Why do you think there are foodbanks all over the country? And given the wealth of our country, it really is criminal that such poverty exists. Here's a bit of reading: fullfact.org/economy/poverty-uk-guide-facts-and-figures/
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Post by aghast on Dec 7, 2019 21:30:07 GMT
Johnson has turned out to be exactly the insincere, untrustworthy, entitled, uncaring glory seeker that I thought he would be. He was one of the main reasons the deal that May put forward failed to win the votes of Tory MPs. The same deal, in new wrapping paper, that he now proposes, and one now supported by hypocritical Leave sympathisers and Tory voters, who would be in favour of anything so long as it returns them to power. Always the Tory ethos. Win elections first, worry about the country second.
I think everyone knows he's a bit of a rotter, but apparently that doesn't matter any more. Power is the game.
Sadly, Labour and Lib Dem leaders of the past would have taken Johnson to pieces by now. Unfortunately Corbyn looks like a man who is more scared about saying the wrong thing, than an opposition leader who can speak for the majority in this country, who will most certainly not be voting for Johnson and his irresponsible attitude.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2019 22:28:33 GMT
Johnson has turned out to be exactly the insincere, untrustworthy, entitled, uncaring glory seeker that I thought he would be. He was one of the main reasons the deal that May put forward failed to win the votes of Tory MPs. The same deal, in new wrapping paper, that he now proposes, and one now supported by hypocritical Leave sympathisers and Tory voters, who would be in favour of anything so long as it returns them to power. Always the Tory ethos. Win elections first, worry about the country second. I think everyone knows he's a bit of a rotter, but apparently that doesn't matter any more. Power is the game. Sadly, Labour and Lib Dem leaders of the past would have taken Johnson to pieces by now. Unfortunately Corbyn looks like a man who is more scared about saying the wrong thing, than an opposition leader who can speak for the majority in this country, who will most certainly not be voting for Johnson and his irresponsible attitude. Precisely Well said
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2019 22:30:32 GMT
Tell me how the bar for “poverty” in the UK compares to those in many African countries, or in India for example. Massively disrespectful to moan about our lot when kids overseas have no healthcare, no education, no clean water and life expectancies lower than we had in the Middle Ages. Moan about wealth inequality by all means. Moan about the education for a Hartcliffe school boy compared to one attending Eton. Moan about someone waiting a few weeks for an operation when someone with BUPA cover gets their op in days. Moan about one kid wearing George at ASDA when his mate with wealthier parents wears Ralph Lauren. But please don’t try to paint the UK as somewhere where hundreds of thousands are living in poverty. During my lifetime I have worked both in UK and in Asia/Africa addressing poverty issues - there is poverty, to varying degrees of course, everywhere. Sad to say, but to suggest that there is no poverty in UK is just wrong. Why do you think there are foodbanks all over the country? And given the wealth of our country, it really is criminal that such poverty exists. Here's a bit of reading: fullfact.org/economy/poverty-uk-guide-facts-and-figures/Has Eric ever worked abroad? Does he have any direct experience? What do his posts suggest?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2019 22:33:16 GMT
Do you mean to flee war torn countries that more often than not we've bombed the sh** out of? So we don’t have any economic migrants and everyone that does travel through numerous countries to reach the UK only does so because we’ve “bombed the sh** out of them”? Perhaps you could list the countries “we’ve bombed the sh** out of” and we can do a bit of investigating to check that the number of migrants from any country not on your list is confirmed to be Zero. What?? Really? How many migrants are from the Philippines?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2019 22:35:33 GMT
Come on Eric, tell us how “bloody kids don’t know what poverty is these days!” Tell me how the bar for “poverty” in the UK compares to those in many African countries, or in India for example. Massively disrespectful to moan about our lot when kids overseas have no healthcare, no education, no clean water and life expectancies lower than we had in the Middle Ages. Moan about wealth inequality by all means. Moan about the education for a Hartcliffe school boy compared to one attending Eton. Moan about someone waiting a few weeks for an operation when someone with BUPA cover gets their op in days. Moan about one kid wearing George at ASDA when his mate with wealthier parents wears Ralph Lauren. But please don’t try to paint the UK as somewhere where hundreds of thousands are living in poverty. With respect you sound like a conservative using absolute poverty as the baseline for the UK because it makes things sound better (as Johnson himself tried to do on Friday). Far greater minds than mine have set the poverty line at 60% below the median income after tax (for the Uk that’s some 17k or so) and I assume that there is a good reason for that and reflects what an acceptable standard of living is for people in that country. As far as I can see there is no asterisk next to that calculation followed by a footnote which says “actually poverty is really defined by what country you live in, there is no such thing as real poverty in the UK because at least in your mouldy flea bitten bedsit that you can barely afford you have got access to sewage”. It sounds like a wash to excuse the fact that there is so much income inequality in a country with the 5th richest economy and yet a housing system that is like a throwback to feudalism. If you can honestly be proud of that then I’m genuinely in awe of your mental fortitude.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2019 23:00:30 GMT
Tell me how the bar for “poverty” in the UK compares to those in many African countries, or in India for example. Massively disrespectful to moan about our lot when kids overseas have no healthcare, no education, no clean water and life expectancies lower than we had in the Middle Ages. Moan about wealth inequality by all means. Moan about the education for a Hartcliffe school boy compared to one attending Eton. Moan about someone waiting a few weeks for an operation when someone with BUPA cover gets their op in days. Moan about one kid wearing George at ASDA when his mate with wealthier parents wears Ralph Lauren. But please don’t try to paint the UK as somewhere where hundreds of thousands are living in poverty. During my lifetime I have worked both in UK and in Asia/Africa addressing poverty issues - there is poverty, to varying degrees of course, everywhere. Sad to say, but to suggest that there is no poverty in UK is just wrong. Why do you think there are foodbanks all over the country? And given the wealth of our country, it really is criminal that such poverty exists. Here's a bit of reading: fullfact.org/economy/poverty-uk-guide-facts-and-figures/Where did I say there was no poverty in the UK? I’ve questioned the terminology and definition of what poverty actually means in comparison to other countries. I know many of you want to believe hundreds of thousands are living in poverty in the UK because we currently have a conservative government and there is a general election coming up - this suits your agenda and I get that. Myself and and my two sisters grew up in a council house in the 70’s. My dad didn’t have a well paid job so worked a few nights in the local pub whilst my mum fitted a bit of hairdressing alongside being a full-time mum. They chose not to waste what little money they had on beer, fags and tattoos and the priority was keeping us kids warm and well fed. I guess I grew up impoverished but never in my life have I considered that to be the case unless I judge my upbringing against the latest definitions of poverty.
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Post by stuart1974 on Dec 7, 2019 23:05:34 GMT
During my lifetime I have worked both in UK and in Asia/Africa addressing poverty issues - there is poverty, to varying degrees of course, everywhere. Sad to say, but to suggest that there is no poverty in UK is just wrong. Why do you think there are foodbanks all over the country? And given the wealth of our country, it really is criminal that such poverty exists. Here's a bit of reading: fullfact.org/economy/poverty-uk-guide-facts-and-figures/Where did I say there was no poverty in the UK? I’ve questioned the terminology and definition of what poverty actually means in comparison to other countries. I know many of you want to believe hundreds of thousands are living in poverty in the UK because we currently have a conservative government and there is a general election coming up - this suits your agenda and I get that. Myself and and my two sisters grew up in a council house in the 70’s. My dad didn’t have a well paid job so worked a few nights in the local pub whilst my mum fitted a bit of hairdressing alongside being a full-time mum. They chose not to waste what little money they had on beer, fags and tattoos and the priority was keeping us kids warm and well fed. I guess I grew up impoverished but never in my life have I considered that to be the case unless I judge my upbringing against the latest definitions of poverty. What would be your definition of poverty or preferred terminology? Being poor can be measured in different ways but is surely relative to the cost of living in a particular area or country.
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Post by aghast on Dec 7, 2019 23:08:49 GMT
Tell me how the bar for “poverty” in the UK compares to those in many African countries, or in India for example. Massively disrespectful to moan about our lot when kids overseas have no healthcare, no education, no clean water and life expectancies lower than we had in the Middle Ages. Moan about wealth inequality by all means. Moan about the education for a Hartcliffe school boy compared to one attending Eton. Moan about someone waiting a few weeks for an operation when someone with BUPA cover gets their op in days. Moan about one kid wearing George at ASDA when his mate with wealthier parents wears Ralph Lauren. But please don’t try to paint the UK as somewhere where hundreds of thousands are living in poverty. With respect you sound like a conservative using absolute poverty as the baseline for the UK because it makes things sound better (as Johnson himself tried to do on Friday). Far greater minds than mine have set the poverty line at 60% below the median income after tax (for the Uk that’s some 17k or so) and I assume that there is a good reason for that and reflects what an acceptable standard of living is for people in that country. As far as I can see there is no asterisk next to that calculation followed by a footnote which says “actually poverty is really defined by what country you live in, there is no such thing as real poverty in the UK because at least in your mouldy flea bitten bedsit that you can barely afford you have got access to sewage”. It sounds like a wash to excuse the fact that there is so much income inequality in a country with the 5th richest economy and yet a housing system that is like a throwback to feudalism. If you can honestly be proud of that then I’m genuinely in awe of your mental fortitude. It's ok. There are Range Rovers and Bentleys in Knightsbridge, Clifton and Manchester. The stock market is doing well. Bankers are drawing big bonuses again. All is well in the UK. Some people in this country seem to have fallen for the USA, Russian or even Saudi view of life. If the rich are doing well, then that proves the country is doing well. The poor and unemployed are just losers and shirkers. We have moved a million miles from the successful Scandinavian model economy, one that we used to follow in many ways.
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