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Post by stuart1974 on Dec 6, 2019 23:36:50 GMT
We chose to introduce it, it wasn't forced on us. The EU rules are that VAT isn't lowered below the national minimum once it is brought in. The US for example, has VAT on it in most states. Could we remove it on leaving, yes we could. Would we and is that a sufficient reason for leaving? Havent Germany literally just removed it? Edit: yes they have. There goes another one then. Down to their lowest level of 7% I thought, only Ireland had it 0 rated. Either way, what is the actual amount saved? A few pence?
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Post by yetigas on Dec 7, 2019 7:43:51 GMT
Well well. The leaders 'debate' at least confirmed that Johnson has nothing to offer apart from 'Get Brexit done'. Funny how the Tories have suddenly found a love of democracy when it suits them to provide a smokescreen for their years of failure. Pity their love of democracy is so selective - it was very clear that Johnson has nothing to offer apart from NHS lies, tackling Islamaphobia lies, and, 'Get Brexit done' crap. Democracy involves engaging with tough interviewers so that the voters can see you for what you really are ....clearly something Johnson is too weak to contemplate.He knows that his 'policies' do not stand up to scrutiny - and sadly he knows that with the Great British Public he will get away with it.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2019 8:42:47 GMT
Well well. The leaders 'debate' at least confirmed that Johnson has nothing to offer apart from 'Get Brexit done'. Funny how the Tories have suddenly found a love of democracy when it suits them to provide a smokescreen for their years of failure. Pity their love of democracy is so selective - it was very clear that Johnson has nothing to offer apart from NHS lies, tackling Islamaphobia lies, and, 'Get Brexit done' crap. Democracy involves engaging with tough interviewers so that the voters can see you for what you really are ....clearly something Johnson is too weak to contemplate.He knows that his 'policies' do not stand up to scrutiny - and sadly he knows that with the Great British Public he will get away with it. I thought it another turgid affair. As someone who vehemently opposes the Tories on grounds of ideology and competence, I was very disappointed in Corbyn. Johnson is such a buffoon, such a parrot repeating the same lines like some Tantric chant, any competent leader of a party would have nailed him. Tories will win big now, and all people like me can hope for is that Corbyn resigns and the party rids itself of these school children designing policy and strategy. Blair and Major are right, we have two bad choices of men as leaders to choose from. I will still vote Labour as I, like Stuart, see that as the only way of perhaps getting a hung Parliament, which will constrain them both. But, I fear the worse.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2019 9:02:08 GMT
Well well. The leaders 'debate' at least confirmed that Johnson has nothing to offer apart from 'Get Brexit done'. Funny how the Tories have suddenly found a love of democracy when it suits them to provide a smokescreen for their years of failure. Pity their love of democracy is so selective - it was very clear that Johnson has nothing to offer apart from NHS lies, tackling Islamaphobia lies, and, 'Get Brexit done' crap. Democracy involves engaging with tough interviewers so that the voters can see you for what you really are ....clearly something Johnson is too weak to contemplate.He knows that his 'policies' do not stand up to scrutiny - and sadly he knows that with the Great British Public he will get away with it. All of that doesn’t matter, people see only what they want to see and I’ve seen plenty who claim that Johnson ‘won’ that debate but provide no real analysis of why whereas I’ve seen others who have said literally exactly the same things you have- that he offers nothing. No substance, can’t think on feet, etc. People are so entrenched they only see their own reality and nothing will change that. “Get Brexit done” seems to be watering off people on both sides though which is interesting. What I would say is that Corbyn was okay but he can’t seize the moment. Johnson: “We won’t sell the NHS”, why doesn’t Corbyn answer “you said you wouldn’t put a border in the Irish Sea”. Johnson: “ we’ve got a really strong economy”, why doesn’t Corbyn answer “why are so many children living in poverty?” No mention of avoiding Andrew Neil It was all so glaringly obvious and yet Corbyn seemed to be stuck to a script. He did eventually bring up the poverty stuff and seemed to have a bit of fire in his belly when he did. That 30 second monologue was about the only thing he did well imo. Johnson was there to be shot at and Corbyn just didn’t have the basic nous to land the shots.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2019 9:54:29 GMT
Well well. The leaders 'debate' at least confirmed that Johnson has nothing to offer apart from 'Get Brexit done'. Funny how the Tories have suddenly found a love of democracy when it suits them to provide a smokescreen for their years of failure. Pity their love of democracy is so selective - it was very clear that Johnson has nothing to offer apart from NHS lies, tackling Islamaphobia lies, and, 'Get Brexit done' crap. Democracy involves engaging with tough interviewers so that the voters can see you for what you really are ....clearly something Johnson is too weak to contemplate.He knows that his 'policies' do not stand up to scrutiny - and sadly he knows that with the Great British Public he will get away with it. The biggest example of how democratic the main parties are is best exhibited by how they dealt with the referendum. The conservatives have tried their best to honour the democratic choice of the people, labour has sought to hinder progress at every stage whilst the liberal “democrats” have just chosen to completely ignore the will of the people because they know best. if you want genuine democracy there is only one way to vote and most people will be sensible enough to do so giving us a conservative government with a sizeable majority. The media has no bearing on my choice of vote but I’m looking forward to seeing the newspapers headlines on Thursday. Will there be a “last one out please turn off the lights” leading the way!!!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2019 11:19:19 GMT
Well well. The leaders 'debate' at least confirmed that Johnson has nothing to offer apart from 'Get Brexit done'. Funny how the Tories have suddenly found a love of democracy when it suits them to provide a smokescreen for their years of failure. Pity their love of democracy is so selective - it was very clear that Johnson has nothing to offer apart from NHS lies, tackling Islamaphobia lies, and, 'Get Brexit done' crap. Democracy involves engaging with tough interviewers so that the voters can see you for what you really are ....clearly something Johnson is too weak to contemplate.He knows that his 'policies' do not stand up to scrutiny - and sadly he knows that with the Great British Public he will get away with it. The biggest example of how democratic the main parties are is best exhibited by how they dealt with the referendum. The conservatives have tried their best to honour the democratic choice of the people, labour has sought to hinder progress at every stage whilst the liberal “democrats” have just chosen to completely ignore the will of the people because they know best. if you want genuine democracy there is only one way to vote and most people will be sensible enough to do so giving us a conservative government with a sizeable majority. The media has no bearing on my choice of vote but I’m looking forward to seeing the newspapers headlines on Thursday. Will there be a “last one out please turn off the lights” leading the way!!! Interesting view of democracy. That one vote is forever and can never be altered despite truth coming to light.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2019 11:29:06 GMT
The biggest example of how democratic the main parties are is best exhibited by how they dealt with the referendum. The conservatives have tried their best to honour the democratic choice of the people, labour has sought to hinder progress at every stage whilst the liberal “democrats” have just chosen to completely ignore the will of the people because they know best. if you want genuine democracy there is only one way to vote and most people will be sensible enough to do so giving us a conservative government with a sizeable majority. The media has no bearing on my choice of vote but I’m looking forward to seeing the newspapers headlines on Thursday. Will there be a “last one out please turn off the lights” leading the way!!! Interesting view of democracy. That one vote is forever and can never be altered despite truth coming to light. We were promised sunlit uplands, 350 million a week for the NHS, the German car industry coming to us with cap in hand. Oh, and the easiest negotiation in history. How much of that turned out to be true?
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Post by William Wilson on Dec 7, 2019 11:58:24 GMT
Well well. The leaders 'debate' at least confirmed that Johnson has nothing to offer apart from 'Get Brexit done'. Funny how the Tories have suddenly found a love of democracy when it suits them to provide a smokescreen for their years of failure. Pity their love of democracy is so selective - it was very clear that Johnson has nothing to offer apart from NHS lies, tackling Islamaphobia lies, and, 'Get Brexit done' crap. Democracy involves engaging with tough interviewers so that the voters can see you for what you really are ....clearly something Johnson is too weak to contemplate.He knows that his 'policies' do not stand up to scrutiny - and sadly he knows that with the Great British Public he will get away with it. I will still vote Labour as I, like Stuart, see that as the only way of perhaps getting a hung Parliament, which will constrain them both. Right. In much the same way that some Labour MPs voted for Corbyn in their leadership contest. Not because they wanted him to win, ( they most certainly didn`t ) but because they thought that it gave the affair a degree of inclusivity. How did that pan out? Be careful what you wish for, Les.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2019 12:31:57 GMT
Interesting view of democracy. That one vote is forever and can never be altered despite truth coming to light. We were promised sunlit uplands, 350 million a week for the NHS, the German car industry coming to us with cap in hand. Oh, and the easiest negotiation in history. How much of that turned out to be true? It would have been easier to negotiate a successful exit were it not for the saboteurs who tried to disrupt and delay at every opportunity. Treacherous.
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Post by Officer Barbrady on Dec 7, 2019 12:49:02 GMT
We were promised sunlit uplands, 350 million a week for the NHS, the German car industry coming to us with cap in hand. Oh, and the easiest negotiation in history. How much of that turned out to be true? It would have been easier to negotiate a successful exit were it not for the saboteurs who tried to disrupt and delay at every opportunity. Treacherous. Like Boris you mean?
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Post by stuart1974 on Dec 7, 2019 12:52:23 GMT
I will still vote Labour as I, like Stuart, see that as the only way of perhaps getting a hung Parliament, which will constrain them both. Right. In much the same way that some Labour MPs voted for Corbyn in their leadership contest. Not because they wanted him to win, ( they most certainly didn`t ) but because they thought that it gave the affair a degree of inclusivity. How did that pan out? Be careful what you wish for, Les. That could go for many things, for example I'm aware of people who voted leave not because they did want to (they were soft remainers) but they thought it was going to be a big remain win and wanted to keep it close.
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Post by stuart1974 on Dec 7, 2019 12:55:51 GMT
We were promised sunlit uplands, 350 million a week for the NHS, the German car industry coming to us with cap in hand. Oh, and the easiest negotiation in history. How much of that turned out to be true? It would have been easier to negotiate a successful exit were it not for the saboteurs who tried to disrupt and delay at every opportunity. Treacherous. Would have left by now had May allowed Parliament to deal allowed a free vote on the terms or even if she put it back to a confirmatory referendum. She wanted to make it a Conservative Brexit in order to keep the party together. Treachery is an unfair term though.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2019 12:58:05 GMT
We were promised sunlit uplands, 350 million a week for the NHS, the German car industry coming to us with cap in hand. Oh, and the easiest negotiation in history. How much of that turned out to be true? It would have been easier to negotiate a successful exit were it not for the saboteurs who tried to disrupt and delay at every opportunity. Treacherous. Depends what you define as a successful exit- everyone voted to pass article 50, that can’t be denied no matter what colour rosette you wear. Then it was down to the Tories who had 2 whole years to negotiate. Where were the saboteurs and treachery during those 2 years? The fact is people had no idea that it was going to play out the way it has and that it was going to be as contrary to what they have been told it has. Not to mention the lies that the initial leave campaign was built on. That being said I’m slowly starting to realise that it really doesn’t matter about what the fantasy of Brexit is vs the reality or whether people were lied to. People don’t care. There is a part of the UK that would literally sacrifice their first born on an altar if meant them getting any form of Brexit and you just can’t argue or rationalise with people who are that determined to get what they feel is good for them (not the rest of the country, for them). As I’ve said all along, I just hope people can stand by the choices they make and say that it’s in their name, because as much as I’d love to think that every poster in this thread will be lighting cigars with £50 notes in 5 years time and a fair few of us eating humble pie I seriously think it’s not going to turn out like that and some people are in for a nasty surprise. We’ll see....
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2019 13:00:05 GMT
It would have been easier to negotiate a successful exit were it not for the saboteurs who tried to disrupt and delay at every opportunity. Treacherous. Would have left by now had May allowed Parliament to deal allowed a free vote on the terms or even if she put it back to a confirmatory referendum. She wanted to make it a Conservative Brexit in order to keep the party together. Treachery is an unfair term though. Exactly, the lack of compromise and consensus in the whole process is probably a contributor to the toxicity we find ourselves mired in during this election. If our politicians can’t work together what message does that send to the electorate?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2019 13:50:49 GMT
I will still vote Labour as I, like Stuart, see that as the only way of perhaps getting a hung Parliament, which will constrain them both. Right. In much the same way that some Labour MPs voted for Corbyn in their leadership contest. Not because they wanted him to win, ( they most certainly didn`t ) but because they thought that it gave the affair a degree of inclusivity. How did that pan out? Be careful what you wish for, Les. My motives are very different. I want to block Johnson and his crew of absolutists
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2019 14:00:03 GMT
Would have left by now had May allowed Parliament to deal allowed a free vote on the terms or even if she put it back to a confirmatory referendum. She wanted to make it a Conservative Brexit in order to keep the party together. Treachery is an unfair term though. Exactly, the lack of compromise and consensus in the whole process is probably a contributor to the toxicity we find ourselves mired in during this election. If our politicians can’t work together what message does that send to the electorate? When people use terms like "treachery" for holding an opposing political and economic viewpoint, this is what drives a toxic atmosphere, and, to a degree, empowers the loonies at the far ends of the political spectrum. As for politicians how can they work together when they are making it up? As our lead in Washington on trade and Brexit put it so succinctly in her resignation letter.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2019 14:27:11 GMT
Someone is not happy. Boris Johnson condemned in brutal direct attack by London Bridge victim's father: 'He’s the worst of us and he’s taking you for a ride' flip.it/OI55xg
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Post by stuart1974 on Dec 7, 2019 14:57:07 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2019 15:00:02 GMT
It does, sums it up nicely.
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Post by yetigas on Dec 7, 2019 17:22:25 GMT
Well well. The leaders 'debate' at least confirmed that Johnson has nothing to offer apart from 'Get Brexit done'. Funny how the Tories have suddenly found a love of democracy when it suits them to provide a smokescreen for their years of failure. Pity their love of democracy is so selective - it was very clear that Johnson has nothing to offer apart from NHS lies, tackling Islamaphobia lies, and, 'Get Brexit done' crap. Democracy involves engaging with tough interviewers so that the voters can see you for what you really are ....clearly something Johnson is too weak to contemplate.He knows that his 'policies' do not stand up to scrutiny - and sadly he knows that with the Great British Public he will get away with it. The biggest example of how democratic the main parties are is best exhibited by how they dealt with the referendum. The conservatives have tried their best to honour the democratic choice of the people, labour has sought to hinder progress at every stage whilst the liberal “democrats” have just chosen to completely ignore the will of the people because they know best. if you want genuine democracy there is only one way to vote and most people will be sensible enough to do so giving us a conservative government with a sizeable majority. The media has no bearing on my choice of vote but I’m looking forward to seeing the newspapers headlines on Thursday. Will there be a “last one out please turn off the lights” leading the way!!! People did not vote for a 'no deal Brexit' which is what you are likely to get if you are foolish enough to vote for Liar Johnson.
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