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Post by yetigas on Dec 9, 2019 15:05:12 GMT
Yet, there are also many people who cannot work due to their disability who are denied state benefits - I know some personally. No welfare system is perfect, but you can put lots of state resources chasing so-called scroungers, or put the same into chasing tax evaders. Better to put more resources going after the tax evaders where the returns are potentially much greater. Does it come down to a simple choice of chasing one and not the other? If there was no investigation and pursuit of benefit crooks what do you think would happen? Obviously more people would try and obtain money for nothing. I’ve no idea what their exact budget is but HMRC are pretty notorious for investigating non payment of tax and won’t let you get away with it. If you’re talking about perfectly legal tax avoidance that is a different matter and is for the politicians to sort out. Just for the record, I am not defending benefit cheats. Its just very strange that the tabloids are quick to pounce on 'scroungers' when those who evade tax are left well alone by the media. Its like there's some kind of respect for those who 'get away with it' by not paying tax. But my real point is that the amount we lose in benefit fraud (about £2 billion per year) is very small compared to tax evasion (about £35 billion per year) - so makes more financial sense to put more resources into chasing the tax evaders. In case you want a source: fullfact.org/online/comparing-benefit-and-tax-fraud/
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Post by Officer Barbrady on Dec 9, 2019 15:08:31 GMT
Does it come down to a simple choice of chasing one and not the other? If there was no investigation and pursuit of benefit crooks what do you think would happen? Obviously more people would try and obtain money for nothing. I’ve no idea what their exact budget is but HMRC are pretty notorious for investigating non payment of tax and won’t let you get away with it. If you’re talking about perfectly legal tax avoidance that is a different matter and is for the politicians to sort out. Just for the record, I am not defending benefit cheats. Its just very strange that the tabloids are quick to pounce on 'scroungers' when those who evade tax are left well alone by the media. Its like there's some kind of respect for those who 'get away with it' by not paying tax. But my real point is that the amount we lose in benefit fraud (about £2 billion per year) is very small compared to tax evasion (about £35 billion per year) - so makes more financial sense to put more resources into chasing the tax evaders. In case you want a source: fullfact.org/online/comparing-benefit-and-tax-fraud/Its one rule for one and one for another. Those on low incomes branded cheats and scroungers. Those on high are just legally doing what they can and the government isnt doing enough. Likelihood is that you can probably apply that to low income claimants too, but they dont. As for chasing the biggest impact, clearly we know which one you would go for.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2019 15:15:39 GMT
What I don’t get is how people can be so unfazed when there are examples of what is little more than stealing the taxes we have paid. We all have a vested interest and should demand that our money is used wisely, making sure that those most deserving get what they need and that the overall pot of cash available as benefit is not reduced by despicable individuals out for a free lunch. The repercussions of benefit fraud needs to be very clear and offenders severely punished to send out a deterrent. The blasé attitude from the left is weird, are they so forgiving if someone hacks into their back account and steals their money or breaks into their house and takes their valuables? I’m sure you have some interesting tales from surveillance. Sounds a fun job but spending hours sat in a car watching a house when nobody moves must be so dull. We outsource to third parties and we’ve had a few interesting ones. We had a life insurance fraud which we had pursued by someone on our behalf and they tracked down the claimant alive and well in Central America, he was hid under the bed and recognised the investigator from when he tried a similar scam against a different insurer years before. He even shook his hand! Does get frustrating when guys like you get some good evidence and we stop a claim - we had one a few years ago where an individual with chronic fatigue was seen windsurfing for several hours on three consecutive days. The ombudsman says you have to reinstate his claim because we didn’t prove he could work at his desk. Might as well give up! I don’t think anyone is immune to abuse of the benefits system. But it’s probably not as important to most as other issues. With respect it’s probably the same for you- do you oppose tax evasion by the high earners as vigorously as you oppose benefit scrounging? From your posts I don’t get the impression that you do if that is the case. It’s classic left wing/right wing- left wingers think tax evasion is a bigger issue while the right wingers see abuse of the welfare state as the bigger issue. And of course what nobody talks about are the people who suffer under both scenarios, those who have to pay more tax to make up for those who have evaded it and those who have been unfairly stripped of benefits who are suffering because too much is being siphoned out. But in terms of priorities both of those issues are not considered a big deal when resources are need to tackle climate change, the NHS and lack of affordable housing and that’s just for starters. Just to add re: windsurfing, we had one where this guy said he couldn’t walk his dog and I had to lie in the back of a car outside his house under a pile of blankets on the back seat with a camera lens peeking up out of the side window. True enough, he came out of the house practically skipping down the road dragging the dog behind him, not a care in the world- it was amazing how he never suspected that he would get investigated! Unbelievable! There was another one where I had to observe a doctors surgery round Clifton/redland way and I had to find some cover on an open patch of public common opposite the doctors! I had no choice but to press up against a tree and then just as the subject turned up I hear a load of giggling behind me. I turn around and there is a pack of 30 French exchange students laughing at me and blowing my cover. Brilliant! Fun job though, wish I’d stuck with it in many ways. I dislike tax evasion and benefit cheats in equal measure. Both needs investigating and severe punishment - need to distinguish between evasion and avoidance as for the purposes of political agenda they are often lumped in together.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2019 15:16:17 GMT
Admit it. You would be gutted if brexit was a great success and our economy flourished. I'd be very surprised! ......but gutted.
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Post by peterparker on Dec 9, 2019 15:19:07 GMT
Southerners coming up North and stealing our jobs
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Post by Officer Barbrady on Dec 9, 2019 15:26:44 GMT
I know you'd love it if I were gutted but I just want what's best for my son pal. So if by some miracle we would not actually be poorer and have given up our FOM for the privilege then I'm sure I'd be fine with that. Problem is, that's unlikely and it's clear you know this as you've run out of arguments since they've all been debunked so now you've started suggesting I'd be gutted. Shame.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2019 15:27:02 GMT
Admit it. You would be gutted if brexit was a great success and our economy flourished. I'd be very surprised! This is the rub. It will grind along, the economy, the UK not reaching its growth potential held back by political ideology. But let's hope we are wrong, the economy booms and the fruits of that economic expansion benefitting the whole population. Umm, cough.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2019 15:28:00 GMT
If it positively benefitted the poor and gave them a better deal than they had in the EU then I would be the first to eat lashings of humble pie. But let.’s be fair, it’s not is it? There will be job cuts, the cost of living will increase which the low income workers will feel the pinch of most, public spending put on hold whilst the economy stabilises etc. The only possible positive is perhaps a deflation in the housing market. Ultimately, the only people who will benefit will be politicians, the finance industry and those who are tethered to the UK by domicile but whose assets are not.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2019 15:30:07 GMT
Does it come down to a simple choice of chasing one and not the other? If there was no investigation and pursuit of benefit crooks what do you think would happen? Obviously more people would try and obtain money for nothing. I’ve no idea what their exact budget is but HMRC are pretty notorious for investigating non payment of tax and won’t let you get away with it. If you’re talking about perfectly legal tax avoidance that is a different matter and is for the politicians to sort out. Just for the record, I am not defending benefit cheats. Its just very strange that the tabloids are quick to pounce on 'scroungers' when those who evade tax are left well alone by the media. Its like there's some kind of respect for those who 'get away with it' by not paying tax. But my real point is that the amount we lose in benefit fraud (about £2 billion per year) is very small compared to tax evasion (about £35 billion per year) - so makes more financial sense to put more resources into chasing the tax evaders. In case you want a source: fullfact.org/online/comparing-benefit-and-tax-fraud/Are you joking? Both tabloids and broadsheets emblazon their front pages when evidence of dodgy tax practice is found. Whether that be a multinational company or a high earning celebrity or sportsman.
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Post by Officer Barbrady on Dec 9, 2019 16:04:01 GMT
Just for the record, I am not defending benefit cheats. Its just very strange that the tabloids are quick to pounce on 'scroungers' when those who evade tax are left well alone by the media. Its like there's some kind of respect for those who 'get away with it' by not paying tax. But my real point is that the amount we lose in benefit fraud (about £2 billion per year) is very small compared to tax evasion (about £35 billion per year) - so makes more financial sense to put more resources into chasing the tax evaders. In case you want a source: fullfact.org/online/comparing-benefit-and-tax-fraud/Are you joking? Both tabloids and broadsheets emblazon their front pages when evidence of dodgy tax practice is found. Whether that be a multinational company or a high earning celebrity or sportsman. So they publish headlines hundreds of times where they call out collective groups of people of low incomes who are 'cheating the system'. Your comparison is that because they occasionally highlight one high income individual that's similar levels of exposure?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2019 16:09:51 GMT
Are you joking? Both tabloids and broadsheets emblazon their front pages when evidence of dodgy tax practice is found. Whether that be a multinational company or a high earning celebrity or sportsman. So they publish headlines hundreds of times where they call out collective groups of people of low incomes who are 'cheating the system'. Your comparison is that because they occasionally highlight one high income individual that's similar levels of exposure? After doing a quick skim of the telegraph’s headlines they positively love tax evasion so I’m not really buying what Eric is suggesting. I will agree about sports stars and the like- they make good headlines because everyone gets angry seeing your Beckhams or Linekers getting away with murder but some shadowy hedge fund manager? Naaah.
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Post by yetigas on Dec 9, 2019 16:16:21 GMT
Just for the record, I am not defending benefit cheats. Its just very strange that the tabloids are quick to pounce on 'scroungers' when those who evade tax are left well alone by the media. Its like there's some kind of respect for those who 'get away with it' by not paying tax. But my real point is that the amount we lose in benefit fraud (about £2 billion per year) is very small compared to tax evasion (about £35 billion per year) - so makes more financial sense to put more resources into chasing the tax evaders. In case you want a source: fullfact.org/online/comparing-benefit-and-tax-fraud/Are you joking? Both tabloids and broadsheets emblazon their front pages when evidence of dodgy tax practice is found. Whether that be a multinational company or a high earning celebrity or sportsman. No I am not joking. Its a serious issue. Can you imagine the benefits to the country if we had another 35 billion from the tax evaders? Pretty significant right? Whereas squeezing 'benefit cheats', the easy option, has relatively little financial impact but makes nice headlines in the Sun, Daily Fail etc etc
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2019 16:29:48 GMT
Are you joking? Both tabloids and broadsheets emblazon their front pages when evidence of dodgy tax practice is found. Whether that be a multinational company or a high earning celebrity or sportsman. No I am not joking. Its a serious issue. Can you imagine the benefits to the country if we had another 35 billion from the tax evaders? Pretty significant right? Whereas squeezing 'benefit cheats', the easy option, has relatively little financial impact but makes nice headlines in the Sun, Daily Fail etc etc You, the Good Officer and 365 are being far to logical.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2019 16:34:37 GMT
Johnson and true colours...again Boris Johnson insults the 3.6m EU citizens who have made the UK their home flip.it/QpZpmyAnd again Kid with suspected pneumonia forced to sleep on floor Boris Johnson pockets reporter's phone when confronted with picture of boy, 4, on hospital floor flip.it/WM09dS
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2019 16:38:51 GMT
And you think this will not happen? UK PM Johnson questions BBC's license fee funding flip.it/iv6urS
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Post by peterparker on Dec 9, 2019 17:06:49 GMT
Johnson and true colours...again Boris Johnson insults the 3.6m EU citizens who have made the UK their home flip.it/QpZpmyAnd again Kid with suspected pneumonia forced to sleep on floor Boris Johnson pockets reporter's phone when confronted with picture of boy, 4, on hospital floor flip.it/WM09dSThe interview where he took the phone and recited his lines on the NHS was just...
No Sympathy, No Empathy, No Humanity.
A man just trying to hide from the past 9 years of Tory rule and portray himself as the solution with no ownership of the past (Whether he was directly involved or not). Truly reprehensible
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2019 17:26:58 GMT
Johnson and true colours...again Boris Johnson insults the 3.6m EU citizens who have made the UK their home flip.it/QpZpmyAnd again Kid with suspected pneumonia forced to sleep on floor Boris Johnson pockets reporter's phone when confronted with picture of boy, 4, on hospital floor flip.it/WM09dSThe interview where he took the phone and recited his lines on the NHS was just...
No Sympathy, No Empathy, No Humanity.
A man just trying to hide from the past 9 years of Tory rule and portray himself as the solution with no ownership of the past (Whether he was directly involved or not). Truly reprehensible
Totally A w**ker of the highest order.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2019 17:58:41 GMT
Johnson and true colours...again Boris Johnson insults the 3.6m EU citizens who have made the UK their home flip.it/QpZpmyAnd again Kid with suspected pneumonia forced to sleep on floor Boris Johnson pockets reporter's phone when confronted with picture of boy, 4, on hospital floor flip.it/WM09dSHe’s beyond accountability, for the most part because people are blind to his faults and to a lesser extent because Corbyn is considered to be an even worse specimen of humanity. Irrespective of the conditions, to have a character like Johnson set to win an easy majority is seriously depressing and will only serve to inspire future generations of politicians who will see that lying is actually nothing to fear or be ashamed of. I’ve no idea how we improve our standards in what we demand from our politicians from here.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2019 18:02:09 GMT
Johnson and true colours...again Boris Johnson insults the 3.6m EU citizens who have made the UK their home flip.it/QpZpmyAnd again Kid with suspected pneumonia forced to sleep on floor Boris Johnson pockets reporter's phone when confronted with picture of boy, 4, on hospital floor flip.it/WM09dSThe interview where he took the phone and recited his lines on the NHS was just...
No Sympathy, No Empathy, No Humanity.
A man just trying to hide from the past 9 years of Tory rule and portray himself as the solution with no ownership of the past (Whether he was directly involved or not). Truly reprehensible
He doesn’t care because he doesn’t have to. Who is he accountable to? Certainly not the electorate, not even the Queen because he lied to her. He can do what he likes because he knows he can’t lose. He is the face of the next 5 years. Your friendly cuddly conservative government. God help us all.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2019 18:03:33 GMT
And you think this will not happen? UK PM Johnson questions BBC's license fee funding flip.it/iv6urSedit: actually after giving it a proper read it’s perhaps a fair point that the license fee model needs to be reviewed. My concern with a change in funding would be the danger of the BBC losing what impartiality it has (for the most part I find as impartial as you can hope for).
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