stuart1974
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Post by stuart1974 on Dec 31, 2019 0:04:00 GMT
Not sure it's the best thread title, what I wanted to raise is what should be the future model of governance.
Press suggestion is that Cabinet posts will be reduced from the current 22 or so Secretaries of State plus some additional ministers who attend.
There was talk a while ago of reducing the number of MPs to 600 and equalising constituency sizes.
Lords reform is long overdue, but what should happen?
Scotland, Wales, N Ireland and London all have various forms of devolved powers, with Metro mayors for some major city regions. What should happen to England? Regional assemblies, English parliament, more devolved powers to councils, retain Westminster but on the "English MPs for English laws"?
PR or FPTP? If PR, what form?
Votes for 16 and 17 year olds?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2019 13:19:47 GMT
Not sure it's the best thread title, what I wanted to raise is what should be the future model of governance. Press suggestion is that Cabinet posts will be reduced from the current 22 or so Secretaries of State plus some additional ministers who attend. There was talk a while ago of reducing the number of MPs to 600 and equalising constituency sizes. Lords reform is long overdue, but what should happen? Scotland, Wales, N Ireland and London all have various forms of devolved powers, with Metro mayors for some major city regions. What should happen to England? Regional assemblies, English parliament, more devolved powers to councils, retain Westminster but on the "English MPs for English laws"? PR or FPTP? If PR, what form? Votes for 16 and 17 year olds? Putting to one side, for the sake of argument, how our governing bodies are constructed, I think "how they get there" is our biggest issue. It cannot be right that parties with significant proportions of the overall vote total are so under represented in Parliament. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2019 13:52:07 GMT
Not sure it's the best thread title, what I wanted to raise is what should be the future model of governance. Press suggestion is that Cabinet posts will be reduced from the current 22 or so Secretaries of State plus some additional ministers who attend. There was talk a while ago of reducing the number of MPs to 600 and equalising constituency sizes. Lords reform is long overdue, but what should happen? Scotland, Wales, N Ireland and London all have various forms of devolved powers, with Metro mayors for some major city regions. What should happen to England? Regional assemblies, English parliament, more devolved powers to councils, retain Westminster but on the "English MPs for English laws"? PR or FPTP? If PR, what form? Votes for 16 and 17 year olds? Putting to one side, for the sake of argument, how our governing bodies are constructed, I think "how they get there" is our biggest issue. It cannot be right that parties with significant proportions of the overall vote total are so under represented in Parliament. I keep saying this, but most countries with PR need a party to have 5% of the vote share before they are allowed into Parliament. The SNP only got 4.3% of the vote share in the UK, meaning under PR they would have NOBODY sat in Parliament. Same goes for the Greens and Plaid. There would also be no independents under PR. Be careful what you wish for. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2019 14:04:07 GMT
Putting to one side, for the sake of argument, how our governing bodies are constructed, I think "how they get there" is our biggest issue. It cannot be right that parties with significant proportions of the overall vote total are so under represented in Parliament. I keep saying this, but most countries with PR need a party to have 5% of the vote share before they are allowed into Parliament. The SNP only got 4.3% of the vote share in the UK, meaning under PR they would have NOBODY sat in Parliament. Same goes for the Greens and Plaid. There would also be no independents under PR. Be careful what you wish for. I think that's right though. But in the case of devolved governments, the 5% should apply to the devolved area they are representing. That's only right and democratic. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2019 14:11:44 GMT
Not sure it's the best thread title, what I wanted to raise is what should be the future model of governance. Press suggestion is that Cabinet posts will be reduced from the current 22 or so Secretaries of State plus some additional ministers who attend. There was talk a while ago of reducing the number of MPs to 600 and equalising constituency sizes. Lords reform is long overdue, but what should happen? Scotland, Wales, N Ireland and London all have various forms of devolved powers, with Metro mayors for some major city regions. What should happen to England? Regional assemblies, English parliament, more devolved powers to councils, retain Westminster but on the "English MPs for English laws"? PR or FPTP? If PR, what form? Votes for 16 and 17 year olds? With respect, is this just bloviating to pass the time? In other words, whilst I agree reform is required there isn’t actually any real likelihood of reform at all...is there? The current format seems to suit the current party in power quite nicely and turkeys ain’t votin’ fer Christmas! |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2019 14:16:58 GMT
Not sure it's the best thread title, what I wanted to raise is what should be the future model of governance. Press suggestion is that Cabinet posts will be reduced from the current 22 or so Secretaries of State plus some additional ministers who attend. There was talk a while ago of reducing the number of MPs to 600 and equalising constituency sizes. Lords reform is long overdue, but what should happen? Scotland, Wales, N Ireland and London all have various forms of devolved powers, with Metro mayors for some major city regions. What should happen to England? Regional assemblies, English parliament, more devolved powers to councils, retain Westminster but on the "English MPs for English laws"? PR or FPTP? If PR, what form? Votes for 16 and 17 year olds? With respect, is this just bloviating to pass the time? In other words, whilst I agree reform is required there isn’t actually any real likelihood of reform at all...is there? The current format seems to suit the current party in power quite nicely and turkeys ain’t votin’ fer Christmas! They already did 😱🤣 But I think 365 that the disillusionment with current status quo is palpable. It seems to me that neither of the two leading parties have genuine popular support. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2019 16:48:29 GMT
With respect, is this just bloviating to pass the time? In other words, whilst I agree reform is required there isn’t actually any real likelihood of reform at all...is there? The current format seems to suit the current party in power quite nicely and turkeys ain’t votin’ fer Christmas! They already did 😱🤣 But I think 365 that the disillusionment with current status quo is palpable. It seems to me that neither of the two leading parties have genuine popular support. Well yes, exactly. The Libs fought tooth and nail for it, everybody wanted it and then nobody turned out and voted on it. I hold my hands up on that score myself. The share of the vote was pretty damning at the last election- the greens particularly need better representation. But it seems like we had our chance back in 2013 or whenever it was- there have been absolutely no noises from the Tories about the electoral system and with such a vast majority there is no pressure to consider it. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2019 17:55:55 GMT
They already did 😱🤣 But I think 365 that the disillusionment with current status quo is palpable. It seems to me that neither of the two leading parties have genuine popular support. Well yes, exactly. The Libs fought tooth and nail for it, everybody wanted it and then nobody turned out and voted on it. I hold my hands up on that score myself. The share of the vote was pretty damning at the last election- the greens particularly need better representation. But it seems like we had our chance back in 2013 or whenever it was- there have been absolutely no noises from the Tories about the electoral system and with such a vast majority there is no pressure to consider it. Yes, it's a long term goal now |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2019 18:18:59 GMT
Well yes, exactly. The Libs fought tooth and nail for it, everybody wanted it and then nobody turned out and voted on it. I hold my hands up on that score myself. The share of the vote was pretty damning at the last election- the greens particularly need better representation. But it seems like we had our chance back in 2013 or whenever it was- there have been absolutely no noises from the Tories about the electoral system and with such a vast majority there is no pressure to consider it. Yes, it's a long term goal now But electoral reform doesn’t suit Labour either, right? So it could be a long old wait if neither of the main parties have any appetite for it... It’s kind of annoying in a way as this is about better representation of the people of the UK- electoral reform should be considered outside of the remit of government for precisely the reasons of turkeys voting for Xmas. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2019 18:41:34 GMT
Yes, it's a long term goal now But electoral reform doesn’t suit Labour either, right? So it could be a long old wait if neither of the main parties have any appetite for it... It’s kind of annoying in a way as this is about better representation of the people of the UK- electoral reform should be considered outside of the remit of government for precisely the reasons of turkeys voting for Xmas. All true, but with one ray of hope. Labour and the Lib Dems will be searching for policies that have broad appeal. This might just be one of them. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2020 6:53:11 GMT
I'm still chortling at the fact that every single MP that 'crossed the floor' during the Brexit nonsense either didn't stand for election (they knew what was coming) or were voted out. Not a single one of them is still in Parliament. This certainly indicates that if an MP 'crosses the floor' to join another party during a Parliamentary session, then it should trigger an automatic by-election. It also shows how wrong Sky News, the BBC etc were wrong to constantly have people like Soubrey, Hammond, Grieve, Stauke etc giving interviews on their news channels practically on a daily basis when it was quite obvious that these people did not represent the views of the majority. Even in the House, Speaker Bercow would often invite these people to talk during debates before anyone else. Too much emphasis was put on these losers. As for Bercow not being given a seat in the House of Lords I can only laugh. Apparently it is precedent to give the ex-Speaker a seat in the Lords, yet it was this very same person who told us that we have to move on and we cannot always follow precedent, which was his argument for allowing certain anti-Brexit moves to be made in the House. Hoisted by his own petard methinks  |
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Post by William Wilson on Jan 3, 2020 8:42:28 GMT
I'm still chortling at the fact that every single MP that 'crossed the floor' during the Brexit nonsense either didn't stand for election (they knew what was coming) or were voted out. Not a single one of them is still in Parliament. This certainly indicates that if an MP 'crosses the floor' to join another party during a Parliamentary session, then it should trigger an automatic by-election. It also shows how wrong Sky News, the BBC etc were wrong to constantly have people like Soubrey, Hammond, Grieve, Stauke etc giving interviews on their news channels practically on a daily basis when it was quite obvious that these people did not represent the views of the majority. Even in the House, Speaker Bercow would often invite these people to talk during debates before anyone else. Too much emphasis was put on these losers. As for Bercow not being given a seat in the House of Lords I can only laugh. Apparently it is precedent to give the ex-Speaker a seat in the Lords, yet it was this very same person who told us that we have to move on and we cannot always follow precedent, which was his argument for allowing certain anti-Brexit moves to be made in the House. Hoisted by his own petard methinks It was probably less than a month ago, that he had visions of a knighthood for his part in saving the UK from itself. Oh, well..... |
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Post by William Wilson on Jan 3, 2020 8:57:21 GMT
Not sure it's the best thread title, what I wanted to raise is what should be the future model of governance. Press suggestion is that Cabinet posts will be reduced from the current 22 or so Secretaries of State plus some additional ministers who attend. There was talk a while ago of reducing the number of MPs to 600 and equalising constituency sizes. Lords reform is long overdue, but what should happen? Scotland, Wales, N Ireland and London all have various forms of devolved powers, with Metro mayors for some major city regions. What should happen to England? Regional assemblies, English parliament, more devolved powers to councils, retain Westminster but on the "English MPs for English laws"? PR or FPTP? If PR, what form? Votes for 16 and 17 year olds? Putting to one side, for the sake of argument, how our governing bodies are constructed, I think "how they get there" is our biggest issue. It cannot be right that parties with significant proportions of the overall vote total are so under represented in Parliament. Absolutely. I remember how upset you were after the 2015 GE, that UKIP with 13% of the vote, didn`t get 13% of the seats. Nobody could accuse you of being inconsistent or hypocritical. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2020 12:55:10 GMT
Putting to one side, for the sake of argument, how our governing bodies are constructed, I think "how they get there" is our biggest issue. It cannot be right that parties with significant proportions of the overall vote total are so under represented in Parliament. Absolutely. I remember how upset you were after the 2015 GE, that UKIP with 13% of the vote, didn`t get 13% of the seats. Nobody could accuse you of being inconsistent or hypocritical. Goodness me, it's never ending, pathological. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2020 14:23:40 GMT
Meanwhile.....
Corbyn told Dianne Abbot That 3 Brazilian soldiers had been killed whilst serving with the U.N.
"My god, that's terrible" She said, and bursts into tears
Corbyn asked,"why has that upset you?"
She Replies,"3 Brazillion, so many!"
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