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Post by stuart1974 on Mar 1, 2020 8:52:04 GMT
The loony left never like retaliation, but when it matters they get destroyed. Sorry Al, don't quite follow your thought pattern there. Are you saying that environmental concern and addressing an issue or not attacking a person because they make you uncomfortable by debate is the perogative if the loony left? What is your definition of "loony left"? |
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Post by althepirate on Mar 1, 2020 9:40:56 GMT
The loony left never like retaliation, but when it matters they get destroyed. Sorry Al, don't quite follow your thought pattern there. Are you saying that environmental concern and addressing an issue or not attacking a person because they make you uncomfortable by debate is the perogative if the loony left? What is your definition of "loony left"? Hi Stuart, The loony left are those with definitive extreme ideas not shared by the majority. They pursue these ideas even though they are in the minority blind to the fact we live in a democratic society. They gain very little ground or power because of this. They don't have any sales skills to effectively sell their ideas to the population. Although most people are aware of the damage of climate change and the cause is worthwhile it is a world problem and the world leaders must unite to achieve improvement. These are the people who should be persuaded. Disrupting ordinary people's lives do nothing for the cause. They talk about the bigger picture and then pursue a smaller one, they never gain any power because they won't compromise. I don't think they have learnt anything from the last election and have destroyed the Labour party and made Tories hugely powerful. They never realise that to get you have to give. |
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Post by stuart1974 on Mar 1, 2020 9:53:32 GMT
Sorry Al, don't quite follow your thought pattern there. Are you saying that environmental concern and addressing an issue or not attacking a person because they make you uncomfortable by debate is the perogative if the loony left? What is your definition of "loony left"? Hi Stuart, The loony left are those with definitive extreme ideas not shared by the majority. They pursue these ideas even though they are in the minority blind to the fact we live in a democratic society. They gain very little ground or power because of this. They don't have any sales skills to effectively sell their ideas to the population. Although most people are aware of the damage of climate change and the cause is worthwhile it is a world problem and the world leaders must unite to achieve improvement. These are the people who should be persuaded. Disrupting ordinary people's lives do nothing for the cause. They talk about the bigger picture and then pursue a smaller one, they never gain any power because they won't compromise. I don't think they have learnt anything from the last election and have destroyed the Labour party and made Tories hugely powerful. They never realise that to get you have to give. Thanks Al, most of what you wrote could be attributed to the other extreme too, such as those in coalmining areas such as Poland and even parts of the US. The issue with climate change is that the moderate views have been ignored for 2 or even 3 decades and by many even now, hence the very extreme views of some of the more vocal element. Small changes done when I was Greta's age would have mitigated the radical changes that are now needed. Prevention better than cure. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2020 10:53:28 GMT
Hi Stuart, The loony left are those with definitive extreme ideas not shared by the majority. They pursue these ideas even though they are in the minority blind to the fact we live in a democratic society. They gain very little ground or power because of this. They don't have any sales skills to effectively sell their ideas to the population. Although most people are aware of the damage of climate change and the cause is worthwhile it is a world problem and the world leaders must unite to achieve improvement. These are the people who should be persuaded. Disrupting ordinary people's lives do nothing for the cause. They talk about the bigger picture and then pursue a smaller one, they never gain any power because they won't compromise. I don't think they have learnt anything from the last election and have destroyed the Labour party and made Tories hugely powerful. They never realise that to get you have to give. Thanks Al, most of what you wrote could be attributed to the other extreme too, such as those in coalmining areas such as Poland and even parts of the US. The issue with climate change is that the moderate views have been ignored for 2 or even 3 decades and by many even now, hence the very extreme views of some of the more vocal element. Small changes done when I was Greta's age would have mitigated the radical changes that are now needed. Prevention better than cure. Taking Al's viewpoint I wonder then why, after decades of mounting evidence, the majority he quotes have not acted? When this majority manifestly refuses to acknowledge truth, facts in front of their eyes, what are the minority to do, but shout loudly to get their voices heard. Not that I agree that it is as simple as that (in the way he analyses). Plus, you could apply this point across many of the issues we face in this country. |
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Post by stuart1974 on Mar 1, 2020 11:04:11 GMT
Thanks Al, most of what you wrote could be attributed to the other extreme too, such as those in coalmining areas such as Poland and even parts of the US. The issue with climate change is that the moderate views have been ignored for 2 or even 3 decades and by many even now, hence the very extreme views of some of the more vocal element. Small changes done when I was Greta's age would have mitigated the radical changes that are now needed. Prevention better than cure. Taking Al's viewpoint I wonder then why, after decades of mounting evidence, the majority he quotes have not acted? When this majority manifestly refuses to acknowledge truth, facts in front of their eyes, what are the minority to do, but shout loudly to get their voices heard. Not that I agree that it is as simple as that (in the way analyses). Plus, you could apply this point across many of the issues we face in this country. All sorts of reasons, of course, such as 'not imminent, we can do this tomorrow' to simply not wanting to believe it and putting it down to conspiracy of some description. As you say, when people are ignored, or feel ignored, they turn to louder and more extreme meaures, be that Extinction Rebellion or (at the risk of going off topic to a degree) through to right wing politics or criminal or even act of terrorism. I was watching Ed Balls' series on the rise of right wing politics in Europe. When someone is being ignored and want to 'send a message' or have their livelihoods threatened, if someone offers them hope they will take it. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2020 11:17:14 GMT
Taking Al's viewpoint I wonder then why, after decades of mounting evidence, the majority he quotes have not acted? When this majority manifestly refuses to acknowledge truth, facts in front of their eyes, what are the minority to do, but shout loudly to get their voices heard. Not that I agree that it is as simple as that (in the way analyses). Plus, you could apply this point across many of the issues we face in this country. All sorts of reasons, of course, such as 'not imminent, we can do this tomorrow' to simply not wanting to believe it and putting it down to conspiracy of some description. As you say, when people are ignored, or feel ignored, they turn to louder and more extreme meaures, be that Extinction Rebellion or (at the risk of going off topic to a degree) through to right wing politics or criminal or even act of terrorism. I was watching Ed Balls' series on the rise of right wing politics in Europe. When someone is being ignored and want to 'send a message' or have their livelihoods threatened, if someone offers them hope they will take it. On your last paragraph, absolutely. Ultimately climate change affects us all, but the poorest disproportionately, those with the least power to change it. You could also apply that to income distribution. As an example, if GDP has grown by 11% since 2009, why has the incomes of the lower end of the mean average only just returned to 2008 levels in real terms? Where has the money gone? Again, when extremes such as this occur extreme reactions follow. |
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Post by warehamgas on Mar 2, 2020 0:23:05 GMT
It’s why ensuring a vibrant economy, with jobs, wages that rise and working conditions and housing is available for all. It’s why the economy is so important in an election because it is the driver for most other things? If any of those conditions are not met and they are not met for a long period of time then resentment builds up, extremism, left or right flourishes because despite calling for change they feel that they are not listened to. Where people feel helpless to change something democratically they will change using other means. Any government has to provide for all parts of its people. When it fails to do that then people act in a way that will “force” change. When economic conditions globally are poor then governments find it difficult to offset that and despite good intentions have problems. History is full of periods when groups of people have had to fight and react in an extreme way to get the change they want. The French Revolution, rise of Nazism, various colonial independence movements, Vietnam all became extreme reactions to the status quo which large groups didn’t like. The climate protesters now are becoming more extreme because it’s the only way to force some governments to act. And where some don’t act then I would expect protests to grow more extreme with the accompanying government clampdowns. I don’t think they will be going away.
Unfortunately, in this country governments have been fairly receptive to meeting what they are suggesting. Not perfect but certainly not dragging their heels. But some countries such as India and China are greater culprits, imo, but I don’t expect to see many protests there. Most protests will be in the western world where protest is accepted. Doubt if they will be happening in China who tend not to like protesters. Which can be incredibly frustrating to those of us whose lives get disrupted by some of these protests and protesters.
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Post by stuartcampbell on Mar 2, 2020 2:50:47 GMT
I wonder how many kids would be turning up for this if it was on a weekend and not a free day off school? Give them all a weeks detention for being truant. I'm only 19 so I think I could speak for the vast majority. The vast majority of protesting kids I assume were over the age of 15, ranging from what I imagine (I can't be sure as I'm attending a university 2 hours away and so couldn't attend) to be 15-22 or largely in that area. Probably most being at least 16-17. Around the age of 11 or 12, you'd do anything for a day off school. But when you get to this age, and the day of school you'll be missing will include missing content which you'll be examined on and not, say, burning a Wotsit on a Bunsen burner, missing school is only going to be harmful to you. Especially when, as I said, the majority is likely to be of an age in which they chose to stay in full-time education, whether that be through A-Levels or University. Me personally what I think Greta's done is fantastic, she's had a massive influence worldwide and reignited a very worrying issue. Sure she may be overreacting in some senses, but I don't understand the hatred towards her, is it because she's supported by those on the left? Like the other day at the BRITs when the rapper Dave performed his song "Black," which is all about the unity between those that share his skin colour, racism, even adding in an extra verse into his performance which he dedicated to Jack Merritt. But, as he has leftist politics, he was heavily criticised by those on the right. I just don't get it. |
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Post by stuartcampbell on Mar 2, 2020 2:54:04 GMT
When are they touring China and India? Easy ones first eh? The ones with a conscience. As hard as it may be to believe. The Chinese people who live under an oppressive, ruthless, cruel government and the 270 million Indian people in poverty aren't too concerned about climate change, they're more focussed on not getting beaten up by the freedom of speech restricting Chinese police, or making sure you don't starve to death. |
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Post by stuartcampbell on Mar 2, 2020 3:04:17 GMT
Stolen from somewhere else... "After our daughter of fifteen years of age was moved to tears by the speech of Greta Thunberg at the UN the other day, she became angry with our generation “who had been doing nothing for thirty years” so, we decided to help her prevent what the girl on TV announced of “massive eradication and the disappearance of entire ecosystems”. We are now committed to give our daughter a future again, by doing our part to help cool the planet four degrees. From now on she will go to school on a bicycle, because driving her by car costs fuel, and fuel puts emissions into the atmosphere. Of course it will be winter soon and then she will want to go by bus, but cycling through the freezing builds resilience. Of course, she is now asking for an electric bicycle, but we have shown her the devastation caused to the areas of the planet as a result of mining for the extraction of Lithium and other minerals used to make batteries for electric bicycles, so she will be pedalling, or walking. Which will not harm her, or the planet. We used to cycle and walk to school too. Since the girl on TV demanded “we need to get rid of our dependency on fossil fuels” and our daughter agreed with her, we have disconnected the heat vent in her room. The temperature is now dropping to twelve degrees in the evening, and will drop below freezing in the winter, we have promised to buy her an extra sweater, hat, tights, gloves and a blanket. For the same reason we have decided that from now on she only takes a cold shower. She will wash her clothes by hand, with a wooden washboard, because the washing machine is simply a power consumer and since the dryer uses natural gas, she will hang her clothes on the clothes line to dry, just like my parents and grandparents used to do. Speaking of clothes, the ones that she currently has are all synthetic, so made from petroleum. Therefore on Monday, we will bring all her designer clothing to the secondhand shop. We have found an eco store where the only clothing they sell is made from undyed and unbleached linen and jute. Also can’t have clothes made on wool, because the emissions from farting sheep are supposedly causing bad weather. It shouldn’t matter that it looks good on her, or that she is going to be laughed at, dressing in colourless, bland clothes and without a wireless bra, but that is the price she has to pay for the benefit of The Climate. Cotton is out of the question, as it comes from distant lands and pesticides are used for it. Very bad for the environment. We just saw on her Instagram that she’s pretty angry with us. This was not our intention. From now on, at 7 p.m. We will turn off the WiFi and we will only switch it on again the next day after dinner for two hours. In this way we will save on electricity, so she is not bothered by electro-stress and will be totally isolated from the outside world. This way, she can concentrate solely on her homework. At eleven o’clock in the evening we will pull the breaker to shut the power off to her room, so she knows that dark is really dark. That will save a lot of CO2. She will no longer be participating in winter sports to ski lodges and resorts, nor will she be going on anymore vacations with us, because our vacation destinations are practically inaccessible by bicycle. Since our daughter fully agrees with the girl on TV that the CO2 emissions and footprints of her great-grandparents are to blame for ‘killing our planet’, what all this simply means, is that she also has to live like her great-grandparents and they never had a holiday, a car or even a bicycle. We haven’t talked about the carbon footprint of food yet. Zero CO2 footprint means no meat, no fish and no poultry, but also no meat substitutes that are based on soy (after all, that grows in farmers fields, that use machinery to harvest the beans, trucks to transport to the processing plants, where more energy is used, then trucked to the packaging/canning plants, and trucked once again to the stores) and also no imported food, because that has a negative ecological effect. And absolutely no chocolate from Africa, no coffee from South America and no tea from Asia. Only homegrown potatoes, vegetables and fruit that have been grown in local cold soil, because greenhouses run on boilers, piped in CO2 and artificial light. Apparently, these things are also bad for The Climate. We will teach her how to grow her own food. Bread is still possible, but butter, milk, cheese and yogurt, cottage cheese and cream come from cows and they emit CO2. No more margarine and no oils will be used for the frying pan, because that fat is palm oil from plantations in Borneo where rain forests first grew. No ice cream in the summer. No soft drinks and no energy drinks, as the bubbles are CO2. We will also ban all plastic, because it comes from chemical factories. Everything made of steel and aluminium must also be removed. Have you ever seen the amount of energy a blast furnace consumes or an aluminium smelter? All bad for the climate! We will replace her memory foam pillow top mattress, with a jute bag filled with straw, with a horse hair pillow. And finally, she will no longer be using makeup, soap, shampoo, cream, lotion, conditioner, toothpaste and medication. Facecloths will all be linen, that she can wash by hand, with her wooden washboard, just like her female ancestors did before climate change made her angry at us for destroying her future. In this way we will help her to do her part to prevent mass extinction, water levels rising and the disappearance of entire ecosystems. If she truly believes she wants to walk the talk of the girl on TV, she will gladly accept and happily embrace her new way of life." I can't believe I wasted minutes of my limited life reading this nonsensical waffle. What an utterly ridiculous post, I feel so bad for this poor child whose parents are doing their utmost to make her life miserable because they disagree with her political opinions, because they get angered by a 16 year old autistic girl. I've never shared even remotely similar political opinions to my father, but he's respectful of mine and I'm respectful of his. No one wants ZERO carbon emissions. |
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Post by William Wilson on Mar 2, 2020 7:56:23 GMT
It’s why ensuring a vibrant economy, with jobs, wages that rise and working conditions and housing is available for all. It’s why the economy is so important in an election because it is the driver for most other things? If any of those conditions are not met and they are not met for a long period of time then resentment builds up, extremism, left or right flourishes because despite calling for change they feel that they are not listened to. Where people feel helpless to change something democratically they will change using other means. Any government has to provide for all parts of its people. When it fails to do that then people act in a way that will “force” change. When economic conditions globally are poor then governments find it difficult to offset that and despite good intentions have problems. History is full of periods when groups of people have had to fight and react in an extreme way to get the change they want. The French Revolution, rise of Nazism, various colonial independence movements, Vietnam all became extreme reactions to the status quo which large groups didn’t like. The climate protesters now are becoming more extreme because it’s the only way to force some governments to act. And where some don’t act then I would expect protests to grow more extreme with the accompanying government clampdowns. I don’t think they will be going away. Unfortunately, in this country governments have been fairly receptive to meeting what they are suggesting. Not perfect but certainly not dragging their heels. But some countries such as India and China are greater culprits, imo, but I don’t expect to see many protests there. Most protests will be in the western world where protest is accepted. Doubt if they will be happening in China who tend not to like protesters. Which can be incredibly frustrating to those of us whose lives get disrupted by some of these protests and protesters. Haven`t you got anything better to do, than come on here writing something so sensible? |
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Post by warehamgas on Mar 2, 2020 9:48:02 GMT
I wonder how many kids would be turning up for this if it was on a weekend and not a free day off school? Give them all a weeks detention for being truant. The vast majority of protesting kids I assume were over the age of 15, ranging from what I imagine (I can't be sure as I'm attending a university 2 hours away and so couldn't attend) to be 15-22 or largely in that area. Probably most being at least 16-17. Around the age of 11 or 12, you'd do anything for a day off school. But when you get to this age, and the day of school you'll be missing will include missing content which you'll be examined on and not, say, burning a Wotsit on a Bunsen burner, missing school is only going to be harmful to you. Especially when, as I said, the majority is likely to be of an age in which they chose to stay in full-time education, whether that be through A-Levels or University. Me personally what I think Greta's done is fantastic, she's had a massive influence worldwide and reignited a very worrying issue. Sure she may be overreacting in some senses, but I don't understand the hatred towards her, is it because she's supported by those on the left? Like the other day at the BRITs when the rapper Dave performed his song "Black," which is all about the unity between those that share his skin colour, racism, even adding in an extra verse into his performance which he dedicated to Jack Merritt. But, as he has leftist politics, he was heavily criticised by those on the right. I just don't get it. Stuart, that’s a bit of a stretch to assume that you could speak for people your age isn’t it? I’m much older and experience has shown that I would never presume to speak for people of my age. Being on this forum should have shown you that people of a similar age have very different views. I speak for myself as I’m sure you do. And whilst I agree with a lot of your post I suspect eric is correct. Had it been a weekend the make up of the rally would have been different. Many would not have been there but others would. And of course it was planned for a weekday because the publicity comes out of children “missing” school and that is Greta’s usp, appealing to her peers. It’s bucking the establishment which youngsters of all eras have tried to do and will continue to do. It’s proving very effective from a publicity angle. Whether it produces any important change is more difficult to judge. But what it is doing and what it has done is it is politicising climate change and giving youngsters a context to be political in. And that his very important for future generations. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2020 10:15:28 GMT
I'm only 19 so I think I could speak for the vast majority. The vast majority of protesting kids I assume were over the age of 15, ranging from what I imagine (I can't be sure as I'm attending a university 2 hours away and so couldn't attend) to be 15-22 or largely in that area. Probably most being at least 16-17. Around the age of 11 or 12, you'd do anything for a day off school. But when you get to this age, and the day of school you'll be missing will include missing content which you'll be examined on and not, say, burning a Wotsit on a Bunsen burner, missing school is only going to be harmful to you. Especially when, as I said, the majority is likely to be of an age in which they chose to stay in full-time education, whether that be through A-Levels or University. Me personally what I think Greta's done is fantastic, she's had a massive influence worldwide and reignited a very worrying issue. Sure she may be overreacting in some senses, but I don't understand the hatred towards her, is it because she's supported by those on the left? Like the other day at the BRITs when the rapper Dave performed his song "Black," which is all about the unity between those that share his skin colour, racism, even adding in an extra verse into his performance which he dedicated to Jack Merritt. But, as he has leftist politics, he was heavily criticised by those on the right. I just don't get it. Stuart, that’s a bit of a stretch to assume that you could speak for people your age isn’t it? I’m much older and experience has shown that I would never presume to speak for people of my age. Being on this forum should have shown you that people of a similar age have very different views. I speak for myself as I’m sure you do. And whilst I agree with a lot of your post I suspect eric is correct. Had it been a weekend the make up of the rally would have been different. Many would not have been there but others would. And of course it was planned for a weekday because the publicity comes out of children “missing” school and that is Greta’s usp, appealing to her peers. It’s bucking the establishment which youngsters of all eras have tried to do and will continue to do. It’s proving very effective from a publicity angle. Whether it produces any important change is more difficult to judge. But what it is doing and what it has done is it is politicising climate change and giving youngsters a context to be political in. And that his very important for future generations. I agree with your final paragraph, very much so But to go back to your earlier comments about China and India. Yes they are heavy polluters as they emerge from a peasant and largely Agrarian society into industrialised ones'. In doing so they are burning carbon and expanding their infrastructure in a merry haste. In effect they are doing exactly as we did from the 18th century onwards. We cut down our forests, dug up coal, polluted our rivers and by 1950 had poisoned out local atmospheres in cities. All in the name of economic gain. Now, as you have, we point the finger at China, India etc for doing exactly as we did. Hypocrisy rules. |
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Post by William Wilson on Mar 2, 2020 12:28:08 GMT
Stuart, that’s a bit of a stretch to assume that you could speak for people your age isn’t it? I’m much older and experience has shown that I would never presume to speak for people of my age. Being on this forum should have shown you that people of a similar age have very different views. I speak for myself as I’m sure you do. And whilst I agree with a lot of your post I suspect eric is correct. Had it been a weekend the make up of the rally would have been different. Many would not have been there but others would. And of course it was planned for a weekday because the publicity comes out of children “missing” school and that is Greta’s usp, appealing to her peers. It’s bucking the establishment which youngsters of all eras have tried to do and will continue to do. It’s proving very effective from a publicity angle. Whether it produces any important change is more difficult to judge. But what it is doing and what it has done is it is politicising climate change and giving youngsters a context to be political in. And that his very important for future generations. I agree with your final paragraph, very much so But to go back to your earlier comments about China and India. Yes they are heavy polluters as they emerge from a peasant and largely Agrarian society into industrialised ones'. In doing so they are burning carbon and expanding their infrastructure in a merry haste. In effect they are doing exactly as we did from the 18th century onwards. We cut down our forests, dug up coal, polluted our rivers and by 1950 had poisoned out local atmospheres in cities. All in the name of economic gain. Now, as you have, we point the finger at China, India etc for doing exactly as we did. Hypocrisy rules. One difference is, that we had little idea of the catastrophic impact of our actions on the planet, while we were doing these things. China and India can be in little doubt. If Greta and her ilk are right, the economic gain enjoyed by the Chinese and Indians, is likely to be very short lived. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2020 12:53:11 GMT
I agree with your final paragraph, very much so But to go back to your earlier comments about China and India. Yes they are heavy polluters as they emerge from a peasant and largely Agrarian society into industrialised ones'. In doing so they are burning carbon and expanding their infrastructure in a merry haste. In effect they are doing exactly as we did from the 18th century onwards. We cut down our forests, dug up coal, polluted our rivers and by 1950 had poisoned out local atmospheres in cities. All in the name of economic gain. Now, as you have, we point the finger at China, India etc for doing exactly as we did. Hypocrisy rules. One difference is, that we had little idea of the catastrophic impact of our actions on the planet, while we were doing these things. China and India can be in little doubt. If Greta and her ilk are right, the economic gain enjoyed by the Chinese and Indians, is likely to be very short lived. Yes you could argue ignorance is bliss, or you could look at America today and say we would have carried on anyway. On the future for places like China, it's going to be interesting. |
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Post by warehamgas on Mar 2, 2020 14:44:41 GMT
Stuart, that’s a bit of a stretch to assume that you could speak for people your age isn’t it? I’m much older and experience has shown that I would never presume to speak for people of my age. Being on this forum should have shown you that people of a similar age have very different views. I speak for myself as I’m sure you do. And whilst I agree with a lot of your post I suspect eric is correct. Had it been a weekend the make up of the rally would have been different. Many would not have been there but others would. And of course it was planned for a weekday because the publicity comes out of children “missing” school and that is Greta’s usp, appealing to her peers. It’s bucking the establishment which youngsters of all eras have tried to do and will continue to do. It’s proving very effective from a publicity angle. Whether it produces any important change is more difficult to judge. But what it is doing and what it has done is it is politicising climate change and giving youngsters a context to be political in. And that his very important for future generations. I agree with your final paragraph, very much so But to go back to your earlier comments about China and India. Yes they are heavy polluters as they emerge from a peasant and largely Agrarian society into industrialised ones'. In doing so they are burning carbon and expanding their infrastructure in a merry haste. In effect they are doing exactly as we did from the 18th century onwards. We cut down our forests, dug up coal, polluted our rivers and by 1950 had poisoned out local atmospheres in cities. All in the name of economic gain. Now, as you have, we point the finger at China, India etc for doing exactly as we did. Hypocrisy rules. Yes, absolutely correct they are doing what we did 200-300 years ago. And there is absolute hypocrisy in all of this but the knowledge about the effect of that has changed. Hypocrisy does rule but it always did! But my point was also about the hypocrisy of the protesters (or convenience might be a better word) and their protests in a more tolerant society than they would protesting in China and probably India. I’m not too sure that Modi would accept too many protests. They can protest here quite safely, I’m not sure they could in China and India. I don’t disagree with what you’ve said btw. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2020 15:22:54 GMT
I agree with your final paragraph, very much so But to go back to your earlier comments about China and India. Yes they are heavy polluters as they emerge from a peasant and largely Agrarian society into industrialised ones'. In doing so they are burning carbon and expanding their infrastructure in a merry haste. In effect they are doing exactly as we did from the 18th century onwards. We cut down our forests, dug up coal, polluted our rivers and by 1950 had poisoned out local atmospheres in cities. All in the name of economic gain. Now, as you have, we point the finger at China, India etc for doing exactly as we did. Hypocrisy rules. Yes, absolutely correct they are doing what we did 200-300 years ago. And there is absolute hypocrisy in all of this but the knowledge about the effect of that has changed. Hypocrisy does rule but it always did! But my point was also about the hypocrisy of the protesters (or convenience might be a better word) and their protests in a more tolerant society than they would protesting in China and probably India. I’m not too sure that Modi would accept too many protests. They can protest here quite safely, I’m not sure they could in China and India. I don’t disagree with what you’ve said btw. I suspect we are on the same side of the same coin. I agree about the authoritarian rule in both China and now India. But of course, we could crash that by not buying the products they manufacture. iPhone anyone...from economics to holier than thou finger pointing, hypocrisy does indeed rule. In terms of people protesting here, it's always good to remember those that died to highlight this right. For Tiananmen Square I give you The Peterloo Massacre in Manchester of 1819. Our own troops killing citizens of this country. |
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Post by warehamgas on Mar 2, 2020 15:46:49 GMT
Yes oldie, it’s part of the whole hypocrisy isn’t it? Lots of people happy to buy whatever because they “need” it. I’ve always bought Vauxhall cars but would be happy to buy others. But my father after his war experiences would not have anything Japanese-made in the house. Different times and probably better for it.🤔
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2020 15:57:05 GMT
Yes oldie, it’s part of the whole hypocrisy isn’t it? Lots of people happy to buy whatever because they “need” it. I’ve always bought Vauxhall cars but would be happy to buy others. But my father after his war experiences would not have anything Japanese-made in the house. Different times and probably better for it.🤔 Indeed. On Japan, I was fortunate to be able to visit Kyoto and the Peace Garden in Hiroshima. That tends to cleanse the soul. |
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Post by oldgas on Apr 7, 2020 9:43:58 GMT
Did she fly back? Genuine question. I believe so, it was the only way she could make her commitment. Amazing that there is another example of shouting at, in this case a kid, the person and not the debate I believe the people who should be shouted at are the evil adults who are manipulating and exploiting her. |
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