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Post by trevorgas on Apr 2, 2020 9:42:14 GMT
Johnson says "Testing is the key to the Puzzle" so only weeks behind the WHO, who said TEST, TEST, TEST! I had taken the view that now is not the time to be overly critical of the Government, whatever my viewpoint. But, we have now completed a full two months since the onset of this pandemic in the UK and the evidence is mounting of chaos in the Government's response. Not even the scientists can cover them. Frankly, the comparison with Germany is embarrassing. My friend I had taken the same position as you however,I am at a loss to understand how we have managed to get ourselves into this position. Having spent years in Operations in 2 major Banks ,one as Director achieving a target is just about planning,resource,tools for the job and understanding the risks and putting in place the appropriate mitigation. My worry is they don't ask the right questions ie: do we have enough resource if the answer is yes the next question is show me etc etc. The issue with all major projects and this is one ,is they fail due to poor execution and delivery and all UK governmentso in the past 50 years fall into that category. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2020 10:46:08 GMT
I had taken the view that now is not the time to be overly critical of the Government, whatever my viewpoint. But, we have now completed a full two months since the onset of this pandemic in the UK and the evidence is mounting of chaos in the Government's response. Not even the scientists can cover them. Frankly, the comparison with Germany is embarrassing. My friend I had taken the same position as you however,I am at a loss to understand how we have managed to get ourselves into this position. Having spent years in Operations in 2 major Banks ,one as Director achieving a target is just about planning,resource,tools for the job and understanding the risks and putting in place the appropriate mitigation. My worry is they don't ask the right questions ie: do we have enough resource if the answer is yes the next question is show me etc etc. The issue with all major projects and this is one ,is they fail due to poor execution and delivery and all UK governmentso in the past 50 years fall into that category. Precisely. What is worse I am led to believe that back in 2015/16 under Jeremy Hunt's regime they held a pandemic scenario exercise. I am led to believe that stock and supply shortcomings were amongst the issues highlighted. It appears they did nothing about it. Now, they appear to have made poor decisions to compound stock and supply shortcomings. The thing is, this problem is pretty linear. Negotiating a complicated trade deal across multi national boundaries, with governments with competing interests, most certainly is not. And these are the same people. God help us. |
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Post by baggins on Apr 2, 2020 10:54:59 GMT
My friend I had taken the same position as you however,I am at a loss to understand how we have managed to get ourselves into this position. Having spent years in Operations in 2 major Banks ,one as Director achieving a target is just about planning,resource,tools for the job and understanding the risks and putting in place the appropriate mitigation. My worry is they don't ask the right questions ie: do we have enough resource if the answer is yes the next question is show me etc etc. The issue with all major projects and this is one ,is they fail due to poor execution and delivery and all UK governmentso in the past 50 years fall into that category. Precisely. What is worse I am led to believe that back in 2015/16 under Jeremy Hunt's regime they held a pandemic scenario exercise. I am led to believe that stock and supply shortcomings were amongst the issues highlighted. It appears they did nothing about it. Now, they appear to have made poor decisions to compound stock and supply shortcomings. The thing is, this problem is pretty linear. Negotiating a complicated trade deal across multi national boundaries, with governments with competing interests, most certainly is not. And these are the same people. God help us. They did do something about it. They continued to cut Doctors and Nurses and reduce funding. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2020 11:02:10 GMT
Precisely. What is worse I am led to believe that back in 2015/16 under Jeremy Hunt's regime they held a pandemic scenario exercise. I am led to believe that stock and supply shortcomings were amongst the issues highlighted. It appears they did nothing about it. Now, they appear to have made poor decisions to compound stock and supply shortcomings. The thing is, this problem is pretty linear. Negotiating a complicated trade deal across multi national boundaries, with governments with competing interests, most certainly is not. And these are the same people. God help us. They did do something about it. They continued to cut Doctors and Nurses and reduce funding. Sorry Baggins, but that is a myth. |
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Post by trevorgas on Apr 2, 2020 11:10:13 GMT
My friend I had taken the same position as you however,I am at a loss to understand how we have managed to get ourselves into this position. Having spent years in Operations in 2 major Banks ,one as Director achieving a target is just about planning,resource,tools for the job and understanding the risks and putting in place the appropriate mitigation. My worry is they don't ask the right questions ie: do we have enough resource if the answer is yes the next question is show me etc etc. The issue with all major projects and this is one ,is they fail due to poor execution and delivery and all UK governmentso in the past 50 years fall into that category. Precisely. What is worse I am led to believe that back in 2015/16 under Jeremy Hunt's regime they held a pandemic scenario exercise. I am led to believe that stock and supply shortcomings were amongst the issues highlighted. It appears they did nothing about it. Now, they appear to have made poor decisions to compound stock and supply shortcomings. The thing is, this problem is pretty linear. Negotiating a complicated trade deal across multi national boundaries, with governments with competing interests, most certainly is not. And these are the same people. God help us. I'm not sure whose taken the decisions at a detail level to make this work,is it the Civil Service ,PHE or the Polticians I tend to think not the Polticians as the day to day nitty gritty is what the CS should be doing. The Polticians should dictate overall strategy with execution by the CS,I don't think there up to it as there are too many fires burning and they need to prioritise and execute the critical ones with excellence rather all of them with mediocrity I don't think they have the competence hence bringing in Army logistics capability. The other critical component is you need strong visible leadership a day ours no matter what we think about his pold tics but his visible absence for the past week has been a contributing factor. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2020 11:18:24 GMT
Precisely. What is worse I am led to believe that back in 2015/16 under Jeremy Hunt's regime they held a pandemic scenario exercise. I am led to believe that stock and supply shortcomings were amongst the issues highlighted. It appears they did nothing about it. Now, they appear to have made poor decisions to compound stock and supply shortcomings. The thing is, this problem is pretty linear. Negotiating a complicated trade deal across multi national boundaries, with governments with competing interests, most certainly is not. And these are the same people. God help us. I'm not sure whose taken the decisions at a detail level to make this work,is it the Civil Service ,PHE or the Polticians I tend to think not the Polticians as the day to day nitty gritty is what the CS should be doing. The Polticians should dictate overall strategy with execution by the CS,I don't think there up to it as there are too many fires burning and they need to prioritise and execute the critical ones with excellence rather all of them with mediocrity I don't think they have the competence hence bringing in Army logistics capability. The other critical component is you need strong visible leadership a day ours no matter what we think about his pold tics but his visible absence for the past week has been a contributing factor. Yes, but. Jeremy Hunt was in charge when the exercise was held. He knew of the shortcomings. Now put your directors hat back on. You were told that a product you sold had a serious fault which could endanger life. But you choose to do nothing about it. A couple of years later someone is killed. Are you liable for Corporate Manslaughter? You bet you are. So yes, the Executive are liable for this. |
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Post by trevorgas on Apr 2, 2020 11:32:00 GMT
I'm not sure whose taken the decisions at a detail level to make this work,is it the Civil Service ,PHE or the Polticians I tend to think not the Polticians as the day to day nitty gritty is what the CS should be doing. The Polticians should dictate overall strategy with execution by the CS,I don't think there up to it as there are too many fires burning and they need to prioritise and execute the critical ones with excellence rather all of them with mediocrity I don't think they have the competence hence bringing in Army logistics capability. The other critical component is you need strong visible leadership a day ours no matter what we think about his pold tics but his visible absence for the past week has been a contributing factor. Yes, but. Jeremy Hunt was in charge when the exercise was held. He knew of the shortcomings. Now put your directors hat back on. You were told that a product you sold had a serious fault which could endanger life. But you choose to do nothing about it. A couple of years later someone is killed. Are you liable for Corporate Manslaughter? You bet you are. So yes, the Executive are liable for this. With my Director hat on I would argue that at that time there were many priorities some of which could cost lives ie:Counter Terrorism funding etc so with a finite budget we ie: the government chose the ones to prioritise that we believed at that time were a more immediate threat. As a politician it's easier to justify spending on a known threat rather than "something "that may happen in the future ,a pandemic has been on the cards for years but the preparation can has been kicked down the road by successive governments around the world. |
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Post by baggins on Apr 2, 2020 11:51:52 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2020 11:59:49 GMT
Nursing vacancies does not mean there have been cuts or underfunding. |
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Post by baggins on Apr 2, 2020 12:05:24 GMT
Nursing vacancies does not mean there have been cuts or underfunding. Why are there 43,000 Nursing Vacancies then? |
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Apr 2, 2020 12:09:29 GMT
Nursing vacancies does not mean there have been cuts or underfunding. Did you actually read the article? Funding cuts to nurse training has had a direct impact on nursing numbers. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2020 12:11:37 GMT
Yes, but. Jeremy Hunt was in charge when the exercise was held. He knew of the shortcomings. Now put your directors hat back on. You were told that a product you sold had a serious fault which could endanger life. But you choose to do nothing about it. A couple of years later someone is killed. Are you liable for Corporate Manslaughter? You bet you are. So yes, the Executive are liable for this. With my Director hat on I would argue that at that time there were many priorities some of which could cost lives ie:Counter Terrorism funding etc so with a finite budget we ie: the government chose the ones to prioritise that we believed at that time were a more immediate threat. As a politician it's easier to justify spending on a known threat rather than "something "that may happen in the future ,a pandemic has been on the cards for years but the preparation can has been kicked down the road by successive governments around the world. Emmm, protecting the lives of the population is the key responsibility of any government, whether it be against terrorism or pandemic diseases. It's not a choice of one or the other. And, after 11 years it's no excuse to refer to the inadequacies of previous regimes, or any other non UK regime. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2020 12:18:06 GMT
Nursing vacancies does not mean there have been cuts or underfunding. Did you actually read the article? Funding cuts to nurse training has had a direct impact on nursing numbers. That's right Hugo. But it is important to use accurate language to frame the debate. The Tories did not cut funding in absolute terms. But they did fail to maintain spending as a % of our GDP in line with our peers. As a result we were not able to maintain the same level of performance, compared to peers. The cut in bursary funding was part of that and an act of crass stupidity. |
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Post by trevorgas on Apr 2, 2020 12:45:06 GMT
With my Director hat on I would argue that at that time there were many priorities some of which could cost lives ie:Counter Terrorism funding etc so with a finite budget we ie: the government chose the ones to prioritise that we believed at that time were a more immediate threat. As a politician it's easier to justify spending on a known threat rather than "something "that may happen in the future ,a pandemic has been on the cards for years but the preparation can has been kicked down the road by successive governments around the world. Emmm, protecting the lives of the population is the key responsibility of any government, whether it be against terrorism or pandemic diseases. It's not a choice of one or the other. And, after 11 years it's no excuse to refer to the inadequacies of previous regimes, or any other non UK regime. Believe me I'm not making an excuse for any of them ,their all as bad as each other. We are plagued by short term election thinking and planning and whilst you need to plan for every eventuality in reality it just never happens. I have a billion to spend on protecting the population which I am certain will occur in the next 2 years or something that might occur in 10 years time,we all know which one they would all choose and if they didn't the press and us would tear them up for arse paper Not saying it's right just that's the reality. |
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Post by South Stand Ultra on Apr 2, 2020 12:46:47 GMT
I haven't been on for a while. What's happened to Eric?
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Post by althepirate on Apr 2, 2020 12:54:41 GMT
I haven't been on for a while. What's happened to Eric? He's deleted his account apparently |
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Post by baggins on Apr 2, 2020 12:54:54 GMT
I haven't been on for a while. What's happened to Eric? I was just about to ask that. Anyone? |
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Post by baggins on Apr 2, 2020 12:55:28 GMT
I haven't been on for a while. What's happened to Eric? He's deleted his account apparently What? Seriously? |
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Post by South Stand Ultra on Apr 2, 2020 12:58:37 GMT
I haven't been on for a while. What's happened to Eric? He's deleted his account apparently
Hhhmmmm shame, he was a good poster.
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Post by stuart1974 on Apr 2, 2020 13:03:02 GMT
He's deleted his account apparently
Hhhmmmm shame, he was a good poster.
He wanted a break from here and felt deletion was the best option. He did pop back as Eric2 just to confirm all is well (there was a thread in the main section) but thought he was spending too much time posting. He'll be back for the football, whenever that is. |
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