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Feb 17, 2020 8:51:46 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2020 8:51:46 GMT
I don't get your point. Surely it is better to have everyone pulling in the same direction? Or do you think the Blair/Brown, May/Hammond type of relationships work better? Working together is absolutely crucial. But talented people compete to get their ideas put across and put into action. Good leaders listen to those people and promote them. As I said before there is no evidence at all that any of this is happening. Take the new Transport Secretary, Grant Shapps. He is my old MP in the area I use to live in. He is a wet blanket. Google his name and Michael Green. And laugh.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2020 9:01:07 GMT
I don't get your point. Surely it is better to have everyone pulling in the same direction? Or do you think the Blair/Brown, May/Hammond type of relationships work better? Working together is absolutely crucial. But talented people compete to get their ideas put across and put into action. Good leaders listen to those people and promote them.As I said before there is no evidence at all that any of this is happening. Take the new Transport Secretary, Grant Shapps. He is my old MP in the area I use to live in. He is a wet blanket. Google his name and Michael Green. And laugh. Good Leaders also get rid of those not performing. As for Schapps and Green, I suppose you can say it will take time to get rid of all the dross. Can't do it all in one go. If you look at Johnson's record as Mayor of London you will find that he does promote those who do a good job, and he swiftly got rid of those that didn't. Strange, but one minute you accuse Johnson of having too much control and showing leadership, and the next you accuse him of lack of Leadership. Sounds to me as though you are moaning for moanings sake.
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Feb 17, 2020 9:29:31 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2020 9:29:31 GMT
Working together is absolutely crucial. But talented people compete to get their ideas put across and put into action. Good leaders listen to those people and promote them.As I said before there is no evidence at all that any of this is happening. Take the new Transport Secretary, Grant Shapps. He is my old MP in the area I use to live in. He is a wet blanket. Google his name and Michael Green. And laugh. Good Leaders also get rid of those not performing. As for Schapps and Green, I suppose you can say it will take time to get rid of all the dross. Can't do it all in one go. If you look at Johnson's record as Mayor of London you will find that he does promote those who do a good job, and he swiftly got rid of those that didn't. Strange, but one minute you accuse Johnson of having too much control and showing leadership, and the next you accuse him of lack of Leadership. Sounds to me as though you are moaning for moanings sake. Johnson promoted Shapps to the cabinet. A spineless yes man. I have never accused Johnson of showing leadership in any context. Quite the opposite in every context.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2020 9:35:28 GMT
Good Leaders also get rid of those not performing. As for Schapps and Green, I suppose you can say it will take time to get rid of all the dross. Can't do it all in one go. If you look at Johnson's record as Mayor of London you will find that he does promote those who do a good job, and he swiftly got rid of those that didn't. Strange, but one minute you accuse Johnson of having too much control and showing leadership, and the next you accuse him of lack of Leadership. Sounds to me as though you are moaning for moanings sake. Johnson promoted Shapps to the cabinet. A spineless yes man. I have never accused Johnson of showing leadership in any context. Quite the opposite in every context. So, there is one member of the Cabinet whom you deem to be unfit for purpose. How many people in Cabinet nowadays, is it 30 or forty?
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stuart1974
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Feb 17, 2020 9:39:13 GMT
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Post by stuart1974 on Feb 17, 2020 9:39:13 GMT
Johnson promoted Shapps to the cabinet. A spineless yes man. I have never accused Johnson of showing leadership in any context. Quite the opposite in every context. So, there is one member of the Cabinet whom you deem to be unfit for purpose. How many people in Cabinet nowadays, is it 30 or forty? 22, plus 4 Ministers who may attend.
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Post by warehamgas on Feb 21, 2020 0:15:54 GMT
Depends upon how you define “leadership”. Leadership comes in many different form. It appears that BJ has his own particular form of leadership which isn’t clear from his short time as PM. We learnt about how he led London and that was fairly successful, in so far as he got re-elected in what is largely a labour supporting area, but I bet he will not be exactly the same.
His leadership, imo, will be defined by achieving big projects, 5G, HS2, leaving the EU, delivering a new global vision for the UK, building up trade agreements and making sure that the NHS doesn’t implode. It will all be mostly short to medium term stuff. Not sure he will worry about what David C worried about ie. the size of our borrowing or the national debt % of our GDP. The end will justify the means in all his policies. He will spend big and will expect results from ministers. He will want good headlines in the papers and he will avoid being held to account through interviews which have a big, live audience. He will rely upon smaller, media friendly interviews so that his inability to deal with detail is not exposed.
Most successful leaders surround themselves with capable people who can show initiative and achieve within the aims of the organisation. I’m not sure BJ will do that, the presence of many Cabinet Ministers such as Jacob R-M, Shapps tells me there is a load of mediocrity there. BJ just wants, I think ministers who will deliver his agenda. (JRM in the cabinet is only a sop to the ERG anyway and isn’t involved in any of the big stuff during this parliament) They dont have to be particularly capable just able to deliver what he wants with the minimum of argument. Sycophants who deliver will be good enough. That’s not being critical I just see that as the way this cabinet will deliver. We wont have cabinet government and I’m not sure that’s a problem in the way the broadsheets think it is. When/if it goes wrong the minister will carry the can and BJ will just appoint the next person who he thinks will deliver what he wants without any challenge. He’s a very intuitive leader with huge charisma amongst his followers, the Tory faithful in the country, and the political party knows this and so they will support him and his and their policies against any political challenges.
I don’t think he has particularly close political friends who are In the cabinet, most will be supporters in a loose sense and he will be very pragmatic about what he needs to achieve what he wants. He will surround himself with his advisors, such as Cummings, who will provide the fence around him. (They will be his dogs that he sets on ministers who aren’t delivering just as Ed Balls and Ed Milliband were Gordon Brown’s dogs when he was Chancellor) The big movers of Gove and Javid will be kept close because they are capable and can deliver for him. Keeping them close is a political necessity and it went wrong last week with Javid. BJ has kept a low profile since, licking his wounds perhaps. Javid will be back in the cabinet before the Autumn in a senior post because when leaving he made few waves and I think was told he’ll be back. Priti Patel is another ally of his and she is trying to do the things that BJ wants to deliver and she’s having a few problems but I think he’ll support her. He simply can’t afford to lose his Chancellor and Home Secretary in the same month.
He will be able to “lead” in this way because he can due to the numbers in the Commons. He can do this in a way that David Cameron couldn’t do after 2010 (he could after 2015 but messed up over the referendum) and that Theresa May couldn’t do at all. That his government will be punctuated by bad stuff and rumours of being disfunctional will not matter a jot so long as he and his ministers are delivering on the big stuff I mentioned.
Looking at leadership styles is really interesting esp when you see so many different ways of doing it and being successful in different ways.
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Post by peterparker on Feb 21, 2020 8:17:04 GMT
Leadership that. Alright playing politics in Wetsminster and delegating, but sometimes you need to front up don't you
Maybe he can't do anything, but these are the sort of people that Boris said have lent the Tories their vote.
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Post by warehamgas on Feb 21, 2020 9:44:00 GMT
Leadership that. Alright playing politics in Wetsminster and delegating, but sometimes you need to front up don't you Maybe he can't do anything, but these are the sort of people that Boris said have lent the Tories their vote. Yes you are right, he does need to front up but I’m not sure he will. He will chuck huge money at it, make the right noises but I’m not sure he will face up and visit. Too much chance of bad headlines. He may well visit within the next week when it’s died down a bit at the same time as there’s an announcement about funding flood-prevention improvements.
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stuart1974
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Feb 21, 2020 9:50:17 GMT
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Post by stuart1974 on Feb 21, 2020 9:50:17 GMT
Leadership that. Alright playing politics in Wetsminster and delegating, but sometimes you need to front up don't you Maybe he can't do anything, but these are the sort of people that Boris said have lent the Tories their vote. He went before the election (😶) and got a lot of stick. I remember when Cameron was PM and there were floods, I quipped that he would only turn up when the flooding it the Home Counties. Funnily enough, once Berkshire was affected out came the welly boots. I'm not surprised in the slightest.
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Post by peterparker on Feb 21, 2020 10:00:47 GMT
Leadership that. Alright playing politics in Wetsminster and delegating, but sometimes you need to front up don't you Maybe he can't do anything, but these are the sort of people that Boris said have lent the Tories their vote. He went before the election (😶) and got a lot of stick. I remember when Cameron was PM and there were floods, I quipped that he would only turn up when the flooding it the Home Counties. Funnily enough, once Berkshire was affected out came the welly boots. I'm not surprised in the slightest. not surprised at all either.
You know you are going to get stick, but surely that's part of the job isn't it, but he's got their votes now
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Feb 21, 2020 10:02:17 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2020 10:02:17 GMT
Yeah, but. He is stopping all those pesky immigrants so all is well. And he is building HS2, and put Grant Shapps in charge. AKA Michael Green. Bets are being taken on whether he will be worse than Failing Grayling. He cannot be...can he?
Still Johnson is leading from the front...wherever he is.
Meanwhile....down at the foodbank
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2020 18:10:56 GMT
Yeah, but. He is stopping all those pesky immigrants so all is well. And he is building HS2, and put Grant Shapps in charge. AKA Michael Green. Bets are being taken on whether he will be worse than Failing Grayling. He cannot be...can he? Still Johnson is leading from the front...wherever he is. Meanwhile....down at the foodbank Incorrect again Olie. He is not stopping 'all those immigrants'. Your claim is a lie. As for HS2, I cannot think of a single reason to continue with the project.
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Feb 21, 2020 19:17:10 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2020 19:17:10 GMT
Yeah, but. He is stopping all those pesky immigrants so all is well. And he is building HS2, and put Grant Shapps in charge. AKA Michael Green. Bets are being taken on whether he will be worse than Failing Grayling. He cannot be...can he? Still Johnson is leading from the front...wherever he is. Meanwhile....down at the foodbank Incorrect again Olie. He is not stopping 'all those immigrants'. Your claim is a lie. As for HS2, I cannot think of a single reason to continue with the project. Are you saying the aim.of the current government is not to substantially reduce immigration??
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Post by warehamgas on Feb 21, 2020 20:41:52 GMT
Yeah, but. He is stopping all those pesky immigrants so all is well. And he is building HS2, and put Grant Shapps in charge. AKA Michael Green. Bets are being taken on whether he will be worse than Failing Grayling. He cannot be...can he? Still Johnson is leading from the front...wherever he is. Meanwhile....down at the foodbank Incorrect again Olie. He is not stopping 'all those immigrants'. Your claim is a lie. As for HS2, I cannot think of a single reason to continue with the project.You might not like it nobby but you’re not BJ. Our PM sees it in a different way and wants to do it. He may get stick over the next few months but at the beginning of the parliament it’s less important than it would be leading into an election. We will have been inundated with all the good news of HS2 by then. Pretty sure he’s into legacy already.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2020 20:43:00 GMT
Incorrect again Olie. He is not stopping 'all those immigrants'. Your claim is a lie. As for HS2, I cannot think of a single reason to continue with the project. Are you saying the aim.of the current government is not to substantially reduce immigration?? Reduce immigration, yes. You said he was going to stop all those immigrants. There is quite a difference between stop and reduce. Your initial claim was a lie, or as someone else may say, fake news. One of the biggest problems with the whole Brexit debate was the dishonest crap from both sides. It seems as though you are intent on continuing that tradition.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2020 20:46:35 GMT
Incorrect again Olie. He is not stopping 'all those immigrants'. Your claim is a lie. As for HS2, I cannot think of a single reason to continue with the project.You might not like it nobby but you’re not BJ. Our PM sees it in a different way and wants to do it. He may get stick over the next few months but at the beginning of the parliament it’s less important than it would be leading into an election. We will have been inundated with all the good news of HS2 by then. Pretty sure he’s into legacy already. I hear what you are saying, but I don't think the gains are good enough when compared to the cost.
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Post by warehamgas on Feb 21, 2020 21:01:02 GMT
You might not like it nobby but you’re not BJ. Our PM sees it in a different way and wants to do it. He may get stick over the next few months but at the beginning of the parliament it’s less important than it would be leading into an election. We will have been inundated with all the good news of HS2 by then. Pretty sure he’s into legacy already. I hear what you are saying, but I don't think the gains are good enough when compared to the cost. No, I don’t disagree with your reasons nobby, I just feel that BJ sees it not necessarily in an economic way but in a political/ legacy/ big infrastructure project which will forever be branded as “his.” He doesn’t see it the way others do. This is not a man who does things in a very conformist way, he is a non-conformist. He knows his win at the election was, in many ways, a very personal victory and the country invested in him not so much the conservatives. So he will do it his way. And of course for the past three years there has been no opposition to speak of. And that makes it much easier.
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Feb 22, 2020 11:22:03 GMT
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Post by althepirate on Feb 22, 2020 11:22:03 GMT
No opposition, no EU, Boris is in a gifted place the like of which hasn't been seen for a very long time.
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