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Post by yattongas on May 22, 2022 11:31:55 GMT
I think we are in an inflationary spike equivalent to the Oil cost impact in 1973/74. That took ten years to wash through, at great cost to those on the lower income scale. We had to go cap in hand to the IMF and that Government fell. Thatcher's cure was deindustrialization and the poverty that followed was allowed to just happen without counter measures. It feels her disciples are about to allow the same thing to happen. They say history repeats itself, or certainly rhymes anyway. I can see a future government (probably would have to be a Labour/LibDem/SNP coalition) renegotiating our Brexit agreements in a few years. It’s inevitable isn’t it ? We simple will have to re-join the customs Union and most likely the single market again or it’s gonna be downhill from here on . The quicker we accept reality and get on with it the better. Only the headbangers & complete Brexit loons will moan but sod them , they got us into this mess. Shame that so many voters were gullible enough to believe their bull sh** 🙄
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Post by gashead79 on May 22, 2022 11:33:55 GMT
I missed this 😮 ! They live amongst us 🙄 Oh I didn't, just wanted to refrain from commenting otherwise I'd damage my keyboard. 🤬 Apologies Stuart. I honestly don't mean to offend anybody so I do say sorry if my comments are hurtful to readers. I can only put out what I believe in and based on my own experiences on the topic. If this message board is solely for like minded people to agree then it will become awkward obviously. yatton, assuming you have been watching the news for the last 18 months? There have been anti lockdown/covid protests around the world. Let's try not to pretend that I am alone on this.(albeit in this micro environment I might be) There are enough people on gaschat who know me personally and I would hope that even if we can't all agree on certain topics, they'd vouch for me as a person. Hypocrisy is one thing that bugs me and we all fall into it at times. I have read this forum consistently for years and I fascinated by those who abide by these rules etc, yet are happy to jump around celebrating a goal. Then queue 3 deep at the bar yet wear a mask in the co-op 30 minutes later. Then dodge family and friends but sit on the packed tube in London. Those people live amongst us...
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Post by baggins on May 22, 2022 11:38:34 GMT
They say history repeats itself, or certainly rhymes anyway. I can see a future government (probably would have to be a Labour/LibDem/SNP coalition) renegotiating our Brexit agreements in a few years. It’s inevitable isn’t it ? We simple will have to re-join the customs Union and most likely the single market again or it’s gonna be downhill from here on . The quicker we accept reality and get on with it the better. Only the headbangers & complete Brexit loons will moan but sod them , they got us into this mess. Shame that so many voters were gullible enough to believe their bull sh** 🙄 And still do.
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Post by yattongas on May 22, 2022 11:41:44 GMT
Oh I didn't, just wanted to refrain from commenting otherwise I'd damage my keyboard. 🤬 Apologies Stuart. I honestly don't mean to offend anybody so I do say sorry if my comments are hurtful to readers. I can only put out what I believe in and based on my own experiences on the topic. If this message board is solely for like minded people to agree then it will become awkward obviously. yatton , assuming you have been watching the news for the last 18 months? There have been anti lockdown/covid protests around the world. Let's try not to pretend that I am alone on this.(albeit in this micro environment I might be) There are enough people on gaschat who know me personally and I would hope that even if we can't all agree on certain topics, they'd vouch for me as a person. Hypocrisy is one thing that bugs me and we all fall into it at times. I have read this forum consistently for years and I fascinated by those who abide by these rules etc, yet are happy to jump around celebrating a goal. Then queue 3 deep at the bar yet wear a mask in the co-op 30 minutes later. Then dodge family and friends but sit on the packed tube in London. Those people live amongst us... No problems with you having a different outlook and opinions on things 79 but I also reserve the right to call out things I think are a bit crazy . Remember people weren’t jumping around and celebrating a goal as crowds weren’t allowed in the height of the pandemic 😷 . Masks were required on tube trains , in shops etc. Did you wear a mask when required? I profoundly disagree that it was ok to break the rules as *some* people sort fit .
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Post by francegas on May 22, 2022 13:27:23 GMT
I think we are in an inflationary spike equivalent to the Oil cost impact in 1973/74. That took ten years to wash through, at great cost to those on the lower income scale. We had to go cap in hand to the IMF and that Government fell. Thatcher's cure was deindustrialization and the poverty that followed was allowed to just happen without counter measures. It feels her disciples are about to allow the same thing to happen. They say history repeats itself, or certainly rhymes anyway. I can see a future government (probably would have to be a Labour/LibDem/SNP coalition) renegotiating our Brexit agreements in a few years. Hang on a minute how can they do that. Boris has come under intense criticism for signing up to the NI protocol but now wanting to change it and getting ridiculed here. But now your saying with agreement from others that our brexit agreements will have to be renegotiated should (God forbid) Labour get into power.
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Post by baggins on May 22, 2022 13:30:14 GMT
They say history repeats itself, or certainly rhymes anyway. I can see a future government (probably would have to be a Labour/LibDem/SNP coalition) renegotiating our Brexit agreements in a few years. Hang on a minute how can they do that. Boris has come under intense criticism for signing up to the NI protocol but now wanting to change it and getting ridiculed here. But now your saying with agreement from others that our brexit agreements will have to be renegotiated should (God forbid) Labour get into power. Re-negotiating with a fresh start is slightly different to breaking a contract, that he signed.
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Post by oldie on May 22, 2022 14:30:58 GMT
They say history repeats itself, or certainly rhymes anyway. I can see a future government (probably would have to be a Labour/LibDem/SNP coalition) renegotiating our Brexit agreements in a few years. Hang on a minute how can they do that. Boris has come under intense criticism for signing up to the NI protocol but now wanting to change it and getting ridiculed here. But now your saying with agreement from others that our brexit agreements will have to be renegotiated should (God forbid) Labour get into power. No France. The point is the whole issue of the Irish border was pre warned. Johnson's protocol, which he sold as a good deal, was a pig's breakfast from the outset. Now he admits it. Why did he sign it? Oh yes, to "get Brexit done" and to be able to claim that he sold NI down the river. Now it's all coming home to roost. It's only Covid and now the war in Ukraine that i are masking the economic impacts more generally. Although labour shortages across a number of sectors are already in play. What is equally quite funny is that the Tories, as a Unionist party, have furthered the cause for a united Ireland substantially.
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Post by trevorgas on May 22, 2022 14:39:12 GMT
Hang on a minute how can they do that. Boris has come under intense criticism for signing up to the NI protocol but now wanting to change it and getting ridiculed here. But now your saying with agreement from others that our brexit agreements will have to be renegotiated should (God forbid) Labour get into power. No France. The point is the whole issue of the Irish border was pre warned. Johnson's protocol, which he sold as a good deal, was a pig's breakfast from the outset. Now he admits it. Why did he sign it? Oh yes, to "get Brexit done" and to be able to claim that he sold NI down the river. Now it's all coming home to roost. It's only Covid and now the war in Ukraine that i are masking the economic impacts more generally. Although labour shortages across a number of sectors are already in play. What is equally quite funny is that the Tories, as a Unionist party, have furthered the cause for a united Ireland substantially. Tbh Les a united Ireland is inevitable now the majority of the population is Catholic,it will happen whether it's a Tory or labour government and probably in our lifetime.
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Post by oldie on May 22, 2022 15:11:18 GMT
No France. The point is the whole issue of the Irish border was pre warned. Johnson's protocol, which he sold as a good deal, was a pig's breakfast from the outset. Now he admits it. Why did he sign it? Oh yes, to "get Brexit done" and to be able to claim that he sold NI down the river. Now it's all coming home to roost. It's only Covid and now the war in Ukraine that i are masking the economic impacts more generally. Although labour shortages across a number of sectors are already in play. What is equally quite funny is that the Tories, as a Unionist party, have furthered the cause for a united Ireland substantially. Tbh Les a united Ireland is inevitable now the majority of the population is Catholic,it will happen whether it's a Tory or labour government and probably in our lifetime. I tend to agree Clive. But there can be little doubt that this current farce has turbocharged that process. I also think, with each passing generation, the religious issues become more diluted.
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Post by trevorgas on May 22, 2022 16:06:12 GMT
Tbh Les a united Ireland is inevitable now the majority of the population is Catholic,it will happen whether it's a Tory or labour government and probably in our lifetime. I tend to agree Clive. But there can be little doubt that this current farce has turbocharged that process. I also think, with each passing generation, the religious issues become more diluted. Agree totally and tbh it's probably for the best.
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Post by francegas on May 22, 2022 18:43:01 GMT
Hang on a minute how can they do that. Boris has come under intense criticism for signing up to the NI protocol but now wanting to change it and getting ridiculed here. But now your saying with agreement from others that our brexit agreements will have to be renegotiated should (God forbid) Labour get into power. Re-negotiating with a fresh start is slightly different to breaking a contract, that he signed. And what if the wonderful EU won't re- negotiate. One problem with the EU and the NI protocol is who would have thought that for example M&S importing chicken sandwiches from the UK to sell in the UK i.e Northern Ireland would be faced with the red tape and expense they have. Anyone with an ounce of common sense can see that is ridiculous. OK it can be argued that is what was signed up for but you must admit the EU are digging their heels in here and that could be why the NI protocol is not working. If the entire brexit contract can be re-negotiated then so can the NI protocol.
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Post by francegas on May 22, 2022 18:48:35 GMT
I tend to agree Clive. But there can be little doubt that this current farce has turbocharged that process. I also think, with each passing generation, the religious issues become more diluted. Agree totally and tbh it's probably for the best. I would agree with this. What I would add is ... my wife is Irish and would love to see a united Ireland however...we obviously have Irish friends and family and many have said we don't want NI back as the Republic could not afford to take it on and they could be faced with becoming bankrupt again and needing an EU bailout.
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Post by yattongas on May 22, 2022 19:27:24 GMT
Agree totally and tbh it's probably for the best. I would agree with this. What I would add is ... my wife is Irish and would love to see a united Ireland however...we obviously have Irish friends and family and many have said we don't want NI back as the Republic could not afford to take it on and they could be faced with becoming bankrupt again and needing an EU bailout. Is Northern Ireland ( 🇬🇧) so far behind Southern Ireland ( 🇪🇺 ) that it would need bailing out to bring it up to the level of the south ? genuinely didn’t realise it was lagging behind so much . Ireland seems to be doing ok since it joined the EU , maybe we should join 🤔? Sounds like quite a prosperous club to be a member of .
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Post by stuart1974 on May 22, 2022 19:28:51 GMT
Re-negotiating with a fresh start is slightly different to breaking a contract, that he signed. And what if the wonderful EU won't re- negotiate. One problem with the EU and the NI protocol is who would have thought that for example M&S importing chicken sandwiches from the UK to sell in the UK i.e Northern Ireland would be faced with the red tape and expense they have. Anyone with an ounce of common sense can see that is ridiculous. OK it can be argued that is what was signed up for but you must admit the EU are digging their heels in here and that could be why the NI protocol is not working. If the entire brexit contract can be re-negotiated then so can the NI protocol. We hold all the cards, don't we? 😉 Once the heat has gone from the politics of this, the grown ups can get back to genuine negotiations. The most practical and probably best supported option would be some form of customs union, it would also resolve the NI issues.
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Post by axegas on May 22, 2022 19:29:54 GMT
Re-negotiating with a fresh start is slightly different to breaking a contract, that he signed. And what if the wonderful EU won't re- negotiate. One problem with the EU and the NI protocol is who would have thought that for example M&S importing chicken sandwiches from the UK to sell in the UK i.e Northern Ireland would be faced with the red tape and expense they have. Anyone with an ounce of common sense can see that is ridiculous. OK it can be argued that is what was signed up for but you must admit the EU are digging their heels in here and that could be why the NI protocol is not working. If the entire brexit contract can be re-negotiated then so can the NI protocol. It’s funny you mention Chicken, as it was making the headlines a while back that the UK was prepared to lower its standards to accept chlorinated chicken in order to get a trade deal with the U.S. We’ve made it abundantly clear that we want to pursue standards de-alignment to “make the most of Brexit” so you can see why the EU aren’t too keen to have avenues of unregulated trade that threaten to undermine the whole of the single market. It’s not the inflexibility of the EU that is the problem here, it’s the inflexibility in the type of Brexit the government has decided to pursue. It could easily have a form of Brexit where this isn’t an issue. Countries not in the same customs union have hard borders, it’s just a matter of fact. Want to avoid that then maybe don’t pursue the hardest Brexit possible, or accept the solution that circumnavigates it already.
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Post by yattongas on May 22, 2022 19:31:09 GMT
Re-negotiating with a fresh start is slightly different to breaking a contract, that he signed. And what if the wonderful EU won't re- negotiate. One problem with the EU and the NI protocol is who would have thought that for example M&S importing chicken sandwiches from the UK to sell in the UK i.e Northern Ireland would be faced with the red tape and expense they have. Anyone with an ounce of common sense can see that is ridiculous. OK it can be argued that is what was signed up for but you must admit the EU are digging their heels in here and that could be why the NI protocol is not working. If the entire brexit contract can be re-negotiated then so can the NI protocol. It’s a great deal 🇬🇧🙄
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Post by stuart1974 on May 22, 2022 19:31:50 GMT
Agree totally and tbh it's probably for the best. I would agree with this. What I would add is ... my wife is Irish and would love to see a united Ireland however...we obviously have Irish friends and family and many have said we don't want NI back as the Republic could not afford to take it on and they could be faced with becoming bankrupt again and needing an EU bailout. Membership of the EU made the border irrelevant, it was us leaving (and the manner in which we left) which caused the problems. I would agree about the costs issue, same for Scotland were they to leave. Not insurmoutable but a big problem that needs addressing.
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Post by yattongas on May 22, 2022 19:38:46 GMT
And what if the wonderful EU won't re- negotiate. One problem with the EU and the NI protocol is who would have thought that for example M&S importing chicken sandwiches from the UK to sell in the UK i.e Northern Ireland would be faced with the red tape and expense they have. Anyone with an ounce of common sense can see that is ridiculous. OK it can be argued that is what was signed up for but you must admit the EU are digging their heels in here and that could be why the NI protocol is not working. If the entire brexit contract can be re-negotiated then so can the NI protocol. It’s funny you mention Chicken, as it was making the headlines a while back that the UK was prepared to lower its standards to accept chlorinated chicken in order to get a trade deal with the U.S. We’ve made it abundantly clear that we want to pursue standards de-alignment to “make the most of Brexit” so you can see why the EU aren’t too keen to have avenues of unregulated trade that threaten to undermine the whole of the single market. It’s not the inflexibility of the EU that is the problem here, it’s the inflexibility in the type of Brexit the government has decided to pursue. It could easily have a form of Brexit where this isn’t an issue. Countries not in the same customs union have hard borders, it’s just a matter of fact. Want to avoid that then maybe don’t pursue the hardest Brexit possible, or accept the solution that circumnavigates it already. Well explained . The lack of understanding of ‘we are where we are’ is quite mind boggling. This is the Brexit we signed up to and you can’t have it both ways . When are these Brexiteers going to start understanding this ? N.Ireland is an unsolvable problem . There’s a border on the land , on the sea or Ireland unites . That’s it.
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Post by yattongas on May 22, 2022 19:48:48 GMT
Tories 👀
The majority of Tory members would rather see the break up of the Union than Brexit not taking place, according to new research.
A survey of 892 Conservative Party members by YouGov found that 59% would prefer to see Northern Ireland split from the UK if it secured Brexit, while 63% would rather see Scotland become independent.
The research comes as the future of Brexit is looking increasingly uncertain, with the Tories currently in the process of selecting a new leader and another Brexit deadline on the horizon in October.
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Post by stuart1974 on May 22, 2022 19:55:27 GMT
Oh I didn't, just wanted to refrain from commenting otherwise I'd damage my keyboard. 🤬 Apologies Stuart. I honestly don't mean to offend anybody so I do say sorry if my comments are hurtful to readers. I can only put out what I believe in and based on my own experiences on the topic. If this message board is solely for like minded people to agree then it will become awkward obviously. yatton , assuming you have been watching the news for the last 18 months? There have been anti lockdown/covid protests around the world. Let's try not to pretend that I am alone on this.(albeit in this micro environment I might be) There are enough people on gaschat who know me personally and I would hope that even if we can't all agree on certain topics, they'd vouch for me as a person. Hypocrisy is one thing that bugs me and we all fall into it at times. I have read this forum consistently for years and I fascinated by those who abide by these rules etc, yet are happy to jump around celebrating a goal. Then queue 3 deep at the bar yet wear a mask in the co-op 30 minutes later. Then dodge family and friends but sit on the packed tube in London. Those people live amongst us... No problem, although I would add I'm not one of those in your last paragraph, I've tried to be pretty consistent especially after seeing nurses in hospital throughout the last couple of years.
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