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Post by gashead79 on May 22, 2022 22:05:44 GMT
The references to Tory voting brexiteers is the common theme here. Let's not forget what contributed to the current situation eh? Labour backed brexit. Labour didn’t back Brexit, they let their members decide and most of them voted remain. Yes, there were some members of the Labour Party that voted for Brexit if that’s your point, remain vs leave has never been a case of left vs right, even if it’s becoming like that nowadays. Labour were the original Eurosceptic party before Blair got into power in 1997 and the eurosceptic wing of the Tory party grew. 👍🏼
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Post by trevorgas on May 23, 2022 7:34:16 GMT
Agree totally and tbh it's probably for the best. I would agree with this. What I would add is ... my wife is Irish and would love to see a united Ireland however...we obviously have Irish friends and family and many have said we don't want NI back as the Republic could not afford to take it on and they could be faced with becoming bankrupt again and needing an EU bailout. There is also a concern that it will encourage the rise of terrorism.
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Post by francegas on May 23, 2022 8:01:50 GMT
I would agree with this. What I would add is ... my wife is Irish and would love to see a united Ireland however...we obviously have Irish friends and family and many have said we don't want NI back as the Republic could not afford to take it on and they could be faced with becoming bankrupt again and needing an EU bailout. There is also a concern that it will encourage the rise of terrorism. Exactly!
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Post by oldie on May 23, 2022 8:06:39 GMT
There is also a concern that it will encourage the rise of terrorism. Exactly! emm... Are we suggesting that a Unionist group refusing to accept a democratic majority vote for unification and resorting to violence is an equivalence to people refusing to accept the forced segregation of part of their country from the whole by an invading force? Just asking
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Post by oldie on May 23, 2022 8:21:40 GMT
Labour didn’t back Brexit, they let their members decide and most of them voted remain. Yes, there were some members of the Labour Party that voted for Brexit if that’s your point, remain vs leave has never been a case of left vs right, even if it’s becoming like that nowadays. Labour were the original Eurosceptic party before Blair got into power in 1997 and the eurosceptic wing of the Tory party grew. 👍🏼 The Eurosceptic wing of the Labour was (and is) on the far left of the party predicated upon their opposition of State Subsidy rules within the legal framework of the Single Market. This is why Corbyn hesitated in 2016, why many of the unions advised their members to vote leave and probably a key factor in us losing that vote. When you add in the discontent of so many communities who had not seen any benefits of globalisation since the late 90s' it is not hard not to understand that these folks voted leave in their droves. The North/South split being indicative and confirmed by the recent local elections. Of course the populist charlatans under Johnson grabbed this opportunity to demonise immigrants, safety and working regulations etc to take advantage of this discontent. One of the key arguments was that free movement of labour forced down wages and took jobs from the local populations. The "working for peanuts" argument was repeated on here by GH79 just this past weekend. As if those of us that were employers during that period were paying cash in hand and below minimum wage rates...that is we were all criminals. Rubbish of course. And so it goes on.
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Post by gashead79 on May 23, 2022 9:24:42 GMT
The Eurosceptic wing of the Labour was (and is) on the far left of the party predicated upon their opposition of State Subsidy rules within the legal framework of the Single Market. This is why Corbyn hesitated in 2016, why many of the unions advised their members to vote leave and probably a key factor in us losing that vote. When you add in the discontent of so many communities who had not seen any benefits of globalisation since the late 90s' it is not hard not to understand that these folks voted leave in their droves. The North/South split being indicative and confirmed by the recent local elections. Of course the populist charlatans under Johnson grabbed this opportunity to demonise immigrants, safety and working regulations etc to take advantage of this discontent. One of the key arguments was that free movement of labour forced down wages and took jobs from the local populations. The "working for peanuts" argument was repeated on here by GH79 just this past weekend. As if those of us that were employers during that period were paying cash in hand and below minimum wage rates...that is we were all criminals. Rubbish of course. And so it goes on. So European workers flocked to UK for what reason other than relatively high wages compared to their home countries? Also the employment opportunities themselves. Warehousing, manufacturing, driving positions are/were full of Europeans from Poland/Romania working for money that English people cannot afford to live on. How is this disputable?
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stuart1974
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Post by stuart1974 on May 23, 2022 9:42:22 GMT
The Eurosceptic wing of the Labour was (and is) on the far left of the party predicated upon their opposition of State Subsidy rules within the legal framework of the Single Market. This is why Corbyn hesitated in 2016, why many of the unions advised their members to vote leave and probably a key factor in us losing that vote. When you add in the discontent of so many communities who had not seen any benefits of globalisation since the late 90s' it is not hard not to understand that these folks voted leave in their droves. The North/South split being indicative and confirmed by the recent local elections. Of course the populist charlatans under Johnson grabbed this opportunity to demonise immigrants, safety and working regulations etc to take advantage of this discontent. One of the key arguments was that free movement of labour forced down wages and took jobs from the local populations. The "working for peanuts" argument was repeated on here by GH79 just this past weekend. As if those of us that were employers during that period were paying cash in hand and below minimum wage rates...that is we were all criminals. Rubbish of course. And so it goes on. So European workers flocked to UK for what reason other than relatively high wages compared to their home countries? Also the employment opportunities themselves. Warehousing, manufacturing, driving positions are/were full of Europeans from Poland/Romania working for money that English people cannot afford to live on. How is this disputable? We didn't restrict numbers coming from the Accession 10 states unlike most of the rest of the EU, one effect of that was for a higher number to choose here rather than other EU countries. This was also the early 2000s when unemployment was fairly low and we had lots of vacancies to fill which we Brits didn't want, on the whole.
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Post by trevorgas on May 23, 2022 9:43:40 GMT
emm... Are we suggesting that a Unionist group refusing to accept a democratic majority vote for unification and resorting to violence is an equivalence to people refusing to accept the forced segregation of part of their country from the whole by an invading force? Just asking No Les I'm not suggesting that,we both know that there will be a significant number of paramilitary organisations that we result to violence despite a democratic vote,they can't even accept the physical unification of Belfast. It's a wholly different debate as to when one person's terrorist is another freedoms fighter,for me anyone who targets innocent women and children rather than the apparatus of suppression is a terrorist.
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Post by stuart1974 on May 23, 2022 10:33:21 GMT
emm... Are we suggesting that a Unionist group refusing to accept a democratic majority vote for unification and resorting to violence is an equivalence to people refusing to accept the forced segregation of part of their country from the whole by an invading force? Just asking No Les I'm not suggesting that,we both know that there will be a significant number of paramilitary organisations that we result to violence despite a democratic vote,they can't even accept the physical unification of Belfast. It's a wholly different debate as to when one person's terrorist is another freedoms fighter,for me anyone who targets innocent women and children rather than the apparatus of suppression is a terrorist. Mostly agree, trying to untangle Anglo-Irish history is a minefield and goes back as far as the King of Leinster and the Catholic church.
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Post by oldie on May 23, 2022 10:57:12 GMT
The Eurosceptic wing of the Labour was (and is) on the far left of the party predicated upon their opposition of State Subsidy rules within the legal framework of the Single Market. This is why Corbyn hesitated in 2016, why many of the unions advised their members to vote leave and probably a key factor in us losing that vote. When you add in the discontent of so many communities who had not seen any benefits of globalisation since the late 90s' it is not hard not to understand that these folks voted leave in their droves. The North/South split being indicative and confirmed by the recent local elections. Of course the populist charlatans under Johnson grabbed this opportunity to demonise immigrants, safety and working regulations etc to take advantage of this discontent. One of the key arguments was that free movement of labour forced down wages and took jobs from the local populations. The "working for peanuts" argument was repeated on here by GH79 just this past weekend. As if those of us that were employers during that period were paying cash in hand and below minimum wage rates...that is we were all criminals. Rubbish of course. And so it goes on. So European workers flocked to UK for what reason other than relatively high wages compared to their home countries? Also the employment opportunities themselves. Warehousing, manufacturing, driving positions are/were full of Europeans from Poland/Romania working for money that English people cannot afford to live on. How is this disputable? Nothing But thats not what you said previously. You said that they worked here for lower wages than the local labour market.
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Post by oldie on May 23, 2022 11:08:35 GMT
emm... Are we suggesting that a Unionist group refusing to accept a democratic majority vote for unification and resorting to violence is an equivalence to people refusing to accept the forced segregation of part of their country from the whole by an invading force? Just asking No Les I'm not suggesting that,we both know that there will be a significant number of paramilitary organisations that we result to violence despite a democratic vote,they can't even accept the physical unification of Belfast. It's a wholly different debate as to when one person's terrorist is another freedoms fighter,for me anyone who targets innocent women and children rather than the apparatus of suppression is a terrorist. To be clear I am not justifying violence at all. But there is a clear differential between a foreign power imposing their will on a sovereign nation and the indigenous folk resisting that and years later, a pocket of the population resisting, perhaps with violence, a democratic vote.
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Post by yattongas on May 23, 2022 11:49:10 GMT
* Breaking news *!
Prime minister caught lying SHOCKER ! 😮
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Post by baggins on May 23, 2022 11:51:54 GMT
* Breaking news *! Prime minister caught lying SHOCKER ! 😮 Guess what will happen.
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Post by yattongas on May 23, 2022 12:03:49 GMT
* Breaking news *! Prime minister caught lying SHOCKER ! 😮 Guess what will happen. Urmmm ……. France Gas will come on here to defend him ? 🤔
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Post by trevorgas on May 23, 2022 12:04:05 GMT
No Les I'm not suggesting that,we both know that there will be a significant number of paramilitary organisations that we result to violence despite a democratic vote,they can't even accept the physical unification of Belfast. It's a wholly different debate as to when one person's terrorist is another freedoms fighter,for me anyone who targets innocent women and children rather than the apparatus of suppression is a terrorist. Mostly agree, trying to untangle Anglo-Irish history is a minefield and goes back as far as the King of Leinster and the Catholic church. Agreed depressing really
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Post by oldie on May 23, 2022 12:12:17 GMT
Urmmm ……. France Gas will come on here to defend him ? 🤔 This is getting funnier by the moment.
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stuart1974
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Post by stuart1974 on May 23, 2022 12:23:30 GMT
From Sky:
"Downing Street photos expected within next two days - Dominic Cummings
In the latest update on his Substack blog, former Number 10 aide Dominic Cummings said he expects picture which could prove Boris Johnson lied to the House Of Commons will be become public within 48 hours.
Mr Cummings has been critical of his former boss since he left Downing Street at the end of 2020.
Mr Cummings said he thinks the police did not carry out a comprehensive investigation, and did not ask the Prime Minister about certain events.
This, he went on, led to junior members of staff getting fined for events while senior people did not - even though the senior people claimed events were legal.
The former adviser said: "One of the consequences is that I expect photos of the PM will emerge very quickly, within the next 24-48 hours."
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Post by peterparker on May 23, 2022 15:17:40 GMT
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Post by baggins on May 23, 2022 15:20:53 GMT
And the lying scumbag will walk away yet again without a scratch. Makes you wonder who's working the Police doesn't it.
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Post by yattongas on May 23, 2022 15:21:44 GMT
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