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Post by francegas on May 27, 2022 15:28:33 GMT
It's wrong that any prime Minster can administer the rules on conduct as they see fit and It's about time for a proper rule book and that is administered and upheld by some other office than the PM My good friend francegas and myself both liking the same post ! 😮 There's a first for everything in life Yatton !! 🙂🙂
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Post by stuart1974 on May 27, 2022 15:42:10 GMT
I smell something fishy, and I'm not talking about the contents of Yatton's apple crumble. "Boris Johnson has been accused of watering down the rules for ministers after it was made clear they will not automatically lose their jobs if they breach the Ministerial Code. A government policy statement said it was “disproportionate” to expect ministers to resign or face the sack for “minor” violations of the code’s provisions. Instead it has been updated, giving the prime minister the option of ordering a lesser sanction such as “some form of public apology, remedial action or removal of ministerial salary for a period”. It had previously expected that ministers should go if they were found to have breached the code. At the same time Mr Johnson has drawn back from allowing his independent adviser on the code, Lord Geidt, to mount investigations into possible violations on his own initiative. Under his revised terms of reference, there will be an “enhanced process” to enable him to initiate inquiries, but he will still require the prime minister’s consent before going ahead. “Reflecting the prime minister’s accountability for the conduct of the executive, it is important that a role is retained for the prime minister in decisions about investigations,” the statement said." www.itv.com/news/2022-05-27/boris-johnson-accused-of-watering-down-rules-for-ministers-following-partygateRemind me, who voted for this liar?
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yattongas
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Post by yattongas on May 27, 2022 15:48:09 GMT
I smell something fishy, and I'm not talking about the contents of Yatton's apple crumble. "Boris Johnson has been accused of watering down the rules for ministers after it was made clear they will not automatically lose their jobs if they breach the Ministerial Code. A government policy statement said it was “disproportionate” to expect ministers to resign or face the sack for “minor” violations of the code’s provisions. Instead it has been updated, giving the prime minister the option of ordering a lesser sanction such as “some form of public apology, remedial action or removal of ministerial salary for a period”. It had previously expected that ministers should go if they were found to have breached the code. At the same time Mr Johnson has drawn back from allowing his independent adviser on the code, Lord Geidt, to mount investigations into possible violations on his own initiative. Under his revised terms of reference, there will be an “enhanced process” to enable him to initiate inquiries, but he will still require the prime minister’s consent before going ahead. “Reflecting the prime minister’s accountability for the conduct of the executive, it is important that a role is retained for the prime minister in decisions about investigations,” the statement said." www.itv.com/news/2022-05-27/boris-johnson-accused-of-watering-down-rules-for-ministers-following-partygateRemind me, who voted for this liar? Not guilty.
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Post by oldie on May 27, 2022 16:01:33 GMT
I smell something fishy, and I'm not talking about the contents of Yatton's apple crumble. "Boris Johnson has been accused of watering down the rules for ministers after it was made clear they will not automatically lose their jobs if they breach the Ministerial Code. A government policy statement said it was “disproportionate” to expect ministers to resign or face the sack for “minor” violations of the code’s provisions. Instead it has been updated, giving the prime minister the option of ordering a lesser sanction such as “some form of public apology, remedial action or removal of ministerial salary for a period”. It had previously expected that ministers should go if they were found to have breached the code. At the same time Mr Johnson has drawn back from allowing his independent adviser on the code, Lord Geidt, to mount investigations into possible violations on his own initiative. Under his revised terms of reference, there will be an “enhanced process” to enable him to initiate inquiries, but he will still require the prime minister’s consent before going ahead. “Reflecting the prime minister’s accountability for the conduct of the executive, it is important that a role is retained for the prime minister in decisions about investigations,” the statement said." www.itv.com/news/2022-05-27/boris-johnson-accused-of-watering-down-rules-for-ministers-following-partygateRemind me, who voted for this liar? And so on we go, down the slippery slope.
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Post by gashead79 on May 27, 2022 17:50:12 GMT
I think we have gone this full circle on the debate over Covid 19 vaccines, in all their various guises. I do think it is the right of every human being to choose whether or not they accept a vaccine, or indeed any treatment. But with that comes responsibility. If the latest, most current, scientific knowledge or evidence informs us that a certain course of action will, on balance of probability, have this or that outcome then it is our individual responsibility to recognise that and act accordingly. In the full knowledge that evidence may come to light which may or may not add /detract on current guidance. But we can only act upon what we know at any given time. So when Covid vaccines came into play there evolved in arguable evidence that the vaccines diluted the severity of the disease but most importantly suppressed infection and therefore transmission. There is very strong evidence that a lifestyle (choices) that led to obesity and Type 2 diabetes was a huge co-morbidity factor which led to negative outcomes. But that has roots, (the behaviour) elsewhere. What is factually true is in the latter stages of this pandemic those who became critically ill were, in the majority, unvaccinated. These people, perhaps through choice, occupied critical NHS capacity badly needed by others, because of their choice. That's pure, self indulgent selfishness. Additionally, by becoming infected and ill they risked infecting others, perhaps even causing their death. That's pure selfishness born of arrogance based upon the belief that they know better. So yes, each individual has the right to make their choices, but they don't have the right to cause negative outcomes for others. So, no vaccine, no air travel. No rail travel, no gathering in enclosed spaces. And you pay for any NHS treatment required if you have not taken the option to protect yourself effectively. It's pretty straightforward really, you make your choices and pay the price. Nicely written, and I can agree with some parts but not all, as it loaded with the nonsense we have been fed. Since covid was not exclusive to the UK or the West. Why are all of the nations with the most severe figures, those who are generally wealthy? The "flatten the curve", "protect the NHS " BS that was repeated as much as "WMDs" and "Get Brexit Done" was just repetitive brainwashing. Now I know you'll get that from the same tactic on WMDs and Brexit! As it happens the NHS has not been protected, its in a mess and is in a mess every year through flu season anyway. The headlines from the last 30 years aren't exactly a secret. Flatten the curve. Ok, so how do we explain the flattening of the curves in all of the unwealthy countries who haven't got vaccines or methods to deploy them? All of the curves are similar in many countries, look at the African countries, pretty much the same patterns as ours yet in places like Nigeria they have a vaccination rate of around 10%. Choices. Yes, the vaccination is a choice. One that started off as a single shot for the most vulnerable, then for others, then for everyone, now for kids, also it wanes after 4-6 months so you need top ups! It is a choice, repeated by your experts, but then ridiculous methods of blackmail and coercion were used to once again cause division in families and communities. And for what? Mental health through the roof, suicides all over the place, economic ruin, people missing births and funerals, the list goes on. All this from a single person eating a Dam raw snake in some market in China? Yeah rite. Call me as selfish as you like, but I trust that one day we will look back and realise that this sorry saga was one amazingly thought out scam. Your first point. Sure, full circle achieved, neither I or you is here to convince the other, and choices have been made. I am pretty sure though, that I can stick to my choice whereas many others will abandon there's now that the headlines have changed, and you can travel to Benidorm without a jab..
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Post by yattongas on May 27, 2022 18:12:26 GMT
Off on a cruise in a few weeks and thankfully there won’t be any unvaccinated people allowed on board . 😃
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Post by baggins on May 27, 2022 18:22:25 GMT
Off on a cruise in a few weeks and thankfully there won’t be any unvaccinated people allowed on board . 😃 Cruise you say. One them ones with no women?
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Post by yattongas on May 27, 2022 18:24:02 GMT
Off on a cruise in a few weeks and thankfully there won’t be any unvaccinated people allowed on board . 😃 Cruise you say. One them ones with no women? Haha no mate , going with the family .
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Post by yattongas on May 27, 2022 18:24:34 GMT
I think we have gone this full circle on the debate over Covid 19 vaccines, in all their various guises. I do think it is the right of every human being to choose whether or not they accept a vaccine, or indeed any treatment. But with that comes responsibility. If the latest, most current, scientific knowledge or evidence informs us that a certain course of action will, on balance of probability, have this or that outcome then it is our individual responsibility to recognise that and act accordingly. In the full knowledge that evidence may come to light which may or may not add /detract on current guidance. But we can only act upon what we know at any given time. So when Covid vaccines came into play there evolved in arguable evidence that the vaccines diluted the severity of the disease but most importantly suppressed infection and therefore transmission. There is very strong evidence that a lifestyle (choices) that led to obesity and Type 2 diabetes was a huge co-morbidity factor which led to negative outcomes. But that has roots, (the behaviour) elsewhere. What is factually true is in the latter stages of this pandemic those who became critically ill were, in the majority, unvaccinated. These people, perhaps through choice, occupied critical NHS capacity badly needed by others, because of their choice. That's pure, self indulgent selfishness. Additionally, by becoming infected and ill they risked infecting others, perhaps even causing their death. That's pure selfishness born of arrogance based upon the belief that they know better. So yes, each individual has the right to make their choices, but they don't have the right to cause negative outcomes for others. So, no vaccine, no air travel. No rail travel, no gathering in enclosed spaces. And you pay for any NHS treatment required if you have not taken the option to protect yourself effectively. It's pretty straightforward really, you make your choices and pay the price. Nicely written, and I can agree with some parts but not all, as it loaded with the nonsense we have been fed. Since covid was not exclusive to the UK or the West. Why are all of the nations with the most severe figures, those who are generally wealthy? The "flatten the curve", "protect the NHS " BS that was repeated as much as "WMDs" and "Get Brexit Done" was just repetitive brainwashing. Now I know you'll get that from the same tactic on WMDs and Brexit! As it happens the NHS has not been protected, its in a mess and is in a mess every year through flu season anyway. The headlines from the last 30 years aren't exactly a secret. Flatten the curve. Ok, so how do we explain the flattening of the curves in all of the unwealthy countries who haven't got vaccines or methods to deploy them? All of the curves are similar in many countries, look at the African countries, pretty much the same patterns as ours yet in places like Nigeria they have a vaccination rate of around 10%. Choices. Yes, the vaccination is a choice. One that started off as a single shot for the most vulnerable, then for others, then for everyone, now for kids, also it wanes after 4-6 months so you need top ups! It is a choice, repeated by your experts, but then ridiculous methods of blackmail and coercion were used to once again cause division in families and communities. And for what? Mental health through the roof, suicides all over the place, economic ruin, people missing births and funerals, the list goes on. All this from a single person eating a Dam raw snake in some market in China? Yeah rite. Call me as selfish as you like, but I trust that one day we will look back and realise that this sorry saga was one amazingly thought out scam. Your first point. Sure, full circle achieved, neither I or you is here to convince the other, and choices have been made. I am pretty sure though, that I can stick to my choice whereas many others will abandon there's now that the headlines have changed, and you can travel to Benidorm without a jab.. What a load of bloody tripe 🙄
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Post by yattongas on May 27, 2022 18:32:49 GMT
Another letter of no confidence has gone in taking the total to 22 publicly declared I think. Slowly but surly the numbers are creeping up.
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Post by Gassy on May 27, 2022 18:41:29 GMT
Because neither you or I have the qualifications to debate science. You chose not to take the vaccine - fine. But are you aware that a ‘healthy’ life style makes your immune system stronger against pretty much everything - but you’ve decided to take your other vaccinations. So the reality is, you don’t trust the vaccine/the science of the vaccine. Regarding the animals and plants - you brought it up, not me. So please do explain the reasoning behind the argument as it makes absolutely no sense to me or I suspect anyone on here. I was actually replying to Oldies comment about doubting science with something I’d seen on social media the other day, then you start harping on about plants and animals or something. The only thing I’ve criticised is you criticising science, which you have no real authority to do. This is just the classic 'dont ask questions' pitch. You are right though, I do not trust the vaccine. The science of the vaccine..this statement is odd to me tbh. There are a few conflicting views amongst scientists on many topics including covid. Experts have been wheeled out at various stages of this whole thing with their updates and viewpoints. The goalposts have changed significantly since the start. There are too many bits of information available for me to trust the science on this vax but the shutdown argument isn't appreciated. I've taken many of the routinely offered vaccines and travel necessary ones, yes. Probably more than most due to my job. Animals and Plants. I was pointing out that we don't always need to rush to the pharmacy to get meds when there is an option to get the ingredients naturally. As I am generally sceptical of pills and painkillers etc(due to the side effects and long worded ingredients)I usually look at the ingredients to see if I can get the same effects from foods etc. That's all but I see you try to get the gang onside, fine. Apologies if your post was not for me but the thread was in response to my earlier points.. Authorised to criticise science? Again, that's just a classic shutdown and accept strategy. We all have the authority to criticise, challenge and look for alternative ways. That really is science! Comparing our situation with other nations challenges the 'experts'. The moving goalposts seeds doubt. The commercial and media activity on the whole sorry saga raises suspicion. I understand that people like me get called names-selfish and conspiracy theorists and suchlike. That's only by the people who have followed the script. There are many people around the world with alternative views to this away from the mainstream one. Even the NHS doctor who took an axe to Sajid live on TV 😲 lol, there we all were believing what we we told! BTW, I may have mentioned it previously, but 2 of my family were redeployed from frontline nhs(both worked throughout in respiratory wards) due to refusing the jab. Then the govt back pedalled! Shame really as the nhs needs those staff.(slight tangent but adds some real life exp to this I hope) It's not at all. It's a 'debate the topic, not the science' 'pitch'. Why do you not trust the vaccine? I'm still not sure I understand your point about the animals and plants though - no one was saying we need to rush to the pharmacy and I think everyone agrees about natural ingredients. But utilising animals and plants doesn't really back up the point you're making IMO. Not sure the gang bit you're on about, I post what I think on a topic. If you think I'm trying to get the 'gang' on side, then really that is your problem you've created, not mine.
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Post by Gassy on May 27, 2022 18:44:53 GMT
I’m just not as intelligent as you. I’m sorry 😣. Gashead79 is not suggesting that diet and lifestyle prevents, treats or cures Covid19. He is suggesting that it *may* be effective in reducing the liklihood of catching and therefore transmitting it.All the science and health advice suggests a healthy lifestyle is a proven method for fighting disease or lessening its impact. Furthermore, many medicines are rooted in plant based science. They will be synthetically produced now but it is not that crazy to think that some medicines can be replaced by natural means. It seems that on here that the only part of a post that gets read is the posters username. What they have actually written seems to be less important. If that is the case then it is 100% wrong. A diet will not reduce the likelihood of catching anything. It will only promote a healthy immune system which fights off the virus better and having less symptoms, but catching it has nothing to do with it. Same with the vaccine. Apologies if I've being pedantic and thats what you meant. But after a lot of false information at the beginning of the vaccine roll out, there was much confusion from people believing if you had the vaccine then you couldn't catch Covid.
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Post by yattongas on May 27, 2022 18:49:43 GMT
Gashead79 is not suggesting that diet and lifestyle prevents, treats or cures Covid19. He is suggesting that it *may* be effective in reducing the liklihood of catching and therefore transmitting it.All the science and health advice suggests a healthy lifestyle is a proven method for fighting disease or lessening its impact. Furthermore, many medicines are rooted in plant based science. They will be synthetically produced now but it is not that crazy to think that some medicines can be replaced by natural means. It seems that on here that the only part of a post that gets read is the posters username. What they have actually written seems to be less important. If that is the case then it is 100% wrong. A diet will not reduce the likelihood of catching anything. It will only promote a healthy immune system which fights off the virus better and having less symptoms, but catching it has nothing to do with it. Same with the vaccine. Apologies if I've being pedantic and thats what you meant. But after a lot of false information at the beginning of the vaccine roll out, there was much confusion from people believing if you had the vaccine then you couldn't catch Covid. Precisely Gassy . Let’s hope you don’t get called childish for pointing out facts . Im sticking to my chocolate buttons 😉
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Post by yattongas on May 27, 2022 19:55:45 GMT
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Post by fintanstack on May 27, 2022 20:03:52 GMT
Gashead79 is not suggesting that diet and lifestyle prevents, treats or cures Covid19. He is suggesting that it *may* be effective in reducing the liklihood of catching and therefore transmitting it.All the science and health advice suggests a healthy lifestyle is a proven method for fighting disease or lessening its impact. Furthermore, many medicines are rooted in plant based science. They will be synthetically produced now but it is not that crazy to think that some medicines can be replaced by natural means. It seems that on here that the only part of a post that gets read is the posters username. What they have actually written seems to be less important. If that is the case then it is 100% wrong. A diet will not reduce the likelihood of catching anything. It will only promote a healthy immune system which fights off the virus better and having less symptoms, but catching it has nothing to do with it. Same with the vaccine. Apologies if I've being pedantic and thats what you meant. But after a lot of false information at the beginning of the vaccine roll out, there was much confusion from people believing if you had the vaccine then you couldn't catch Covid. You are correct, that was what I meant.
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Post by fintanstack on May 27, 2022 20:06:10 GMT
If that is the case then it is 100% wrong. A diet will not reduce the likelihood of catching anything. It will only promote a healthy immune system which fights off the virus better and having less symptoms, but catching it has nothing to do with it. Same with the vaccine. Apologies if I've being pedantic and thats what you meant. But after a lot of false information at the beginning of the vaccine roll out, there was much confusion from people believing if you had the vaccine then you couldn't catch Covid. Precisely Gassy . Let’s hope you don’t get called childish for pointing out facts . Im sticking to my chocolate buttons 😉 You did not point out any facts. Maybe if you had we could have discussed it.
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Post by yattongas on May 27, 2022 20:19:15 GMT
Precisely Gassy . Let’s hope you don’t get called childish for pointing out facts . Im sticking to my chocolate buttons 😉 You did not point out any facts. Maybe if you had we could have discussed it. Oh gawd 🙄
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Post by fintanstack on May 27, 2022 20:30:13 GMT
You did not point out any facts. Maybe if you had we could have discussed it. Oh gawd 🙄 And there it is.
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Post by baggins on May 27, 2022 20:39:07 GMT
If that is the case then it is 100% wrong. A diet will not reduce the likelihood of catching anything. It will only promote a healthy immune system which fights off the virus better and having less symptoms, but catching it has nothing to do with it. Same with the vaccine. Apologies if I've being pedantic and thats what you meant. But after a lot of false information at the beginning of the vaccine roll out, there was much confusion from people believing if you had the vaccine then you couldn't catch Covid. Precisely Gassy . Let’s hope you don’t get called childish for pointing out facts . Im sticking to my chocolate buttons 😉 I think you'll find chocolate buttons stick to you, unless you're up to something.
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Post by fintanstack on May 27, 2022 20:47:29 GMT
To clarify, I do not agree with Gashead79s stance on the vaccine.
Oldie and Gassy made some very good points in their rebuttal of his stance.
I attempted to paraphrase the things Gashead79 wrote because it appeared that people were not prepared to engage with him other than to use stupid emojis or to say they were too stupid to understand.
Sometimes it is useful to try to make sense of posts to gain an understanding of a different perspective.
Science tells us healthy eating helps us not get illness. It is not an unreasonable position for someone sceptical of the vaccine to see lifestyle as a viable "scientific" alternative to the vaccine.
Again, Oldie and Gassy made good arguments as to why that is not necessarily the case.
Yattongas just decided to equate eating well to eating chocolate which is not a sensible comparison at all and to add little more than emojis to the debate as usual.
Is it any wonder that this part of the forum is nothing more than an echo chamber of the same three posters talking at themselves?
Reasonable discourse, mutual understanding, empathic understanding and tolerance are sadly lacking.
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