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Post by oldie on Jun 2, 2022 9:19:25 GMT
This jumped out to me from the Ellwood link "As you rightly mention, both campaigns were also clear during the referendum what a vote to leave the EU would mean" Well, that turned out not to be true. My reflection on the referendum is that what is abundantly clear is the lies told by all politicians have now been brutally exposed,that doesn't often happen particularly with GE promises that get lost in the midst of time. Indeed. But there is only one point of evaluation now Clive. Regardless of who lied and about what. We have left the single market and no longer have free movement of labour. That was the desired outcome expressed in the Leave vote. So, how has that benefitted the UK...that is the only question that needs answering.
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Post by stuart1974 on Jun 2, 2022 10:03:31 GMT
This jumped out to me from the Ellwood link "As you rightly mention, both campaigns were also clear during the referendum what a vote to leave the EU would mean" Well, that turned out not to be true. My reflection on the referendum is that what is abundantly clear is the lies told by all politicians have now been brutally exposed,that doesn't often happen particularly with GE promises that get lost in the midst of time. Projects Fear was never going to happen in the extreme that was promoted, neither was the 'land of milk and honey'/"we hold all the cards"/"BMW will force Merkel to concede'. The only thing which worked was Project Boris. Hopefully that nightmare will come to an end soon, eventually followed by some realpolitik.
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Post by gashead79 on Jun 2, 2022 10:11:37 GMT
My reflection on the referendum is that what is abundantly clear is the lies told by all politicians have now been brutally exposed,that doesn't often happen particularly with GE promises that get lost in the midst of time. Indeed. But there is only one point of evaluation now Clive. Regardless of who lied and about what. We have left the single market and no longer have free movement of labour. That was the desired outcome expressed in the Leave vote. So, how has that benefitted the UK...that is the only question that needs answering. The planned benefit was that we would have more freedom to negotiate deals with other trading partners without the shackles of the Union. It was also to take back control of the borders and have authority over who comes into the UK. Clearly, these things have not happened as planned or overnight. Hopefully they sort themselves out, and take shape over time and there are a few things happening to those effects. There are also a number of things that have hindered, slowed, detracted from the utopia. Nothing so much as infighting, disruption, then covid and other global difficulties. We are in a bit of a mess atm for sure, much like many other nations so as things settle and return to normal, I think we'll be fine.
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Post by stuart1974 on Jun 2, 2022 10:18:05 GMT
Indeed. But there is only one point of evaluation now Clive. Regardless of who lied and about what. We have left the single market and no longer have free movement of labour. That was the desired outcome expressed in the Leave vote. So, how has that benefitted the UK...that is the only question that needs answering. The planned benefit was that we would have more freedom to negotiate deals with other trading partners without the shackles of the Union. It was also to take back control of the borders and have authority over who comes into the UK. Clearly, these things have not happened as planned or overnight. Hopefully they sort themselves out, and take shape over time and there are a few things happening to those effects. There are also a number of things that have hindered, slowed, detracted from the utopia. Nothing so much as infighting, disruption, then covid and other global difficulties. We are in a bit of a mess atm for sure, much like many other nations so as things settle and return to normal, I think we'll be fine. Did you really fall for that line about trade and immigration?
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Post by trevorgas on Jun 2, 2022 11:15:34 GMT
My reflection on the referendum is that what is abundantly clear is the lies told by all politicians have now been brutally exposed,that doesn't often happen particularly with GE promises that get lost in the midst of time. Indeed. But there is only one point of evaluation now Clive. Regardless of who lied and about what. We have left the single market and no longer have free movement of labour. That was the desired outcome expressed in the Leave vote. So, how has that benefitted the UK...that is the only question that needs answering. ATM not at all
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Post by trevorgas on Jun 2, 2022 11:17:09 GMT
My reflection on the referendum is that what is abundantly clear is the lies told by all politicians have now been brutally exposed,that doesn't often happen particularly with GE promises that get lost in the midst of time. Indeed. But there is only one point of evaluation now Clive. Regardless of who lied and about what. We have left the single market and no longer have free movement of labour. That was the desired outcome expressed in the Leave vote. So, how has that benefitted the UK...that is the only question that needs answering. ATM not at all
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Post by oldie on Jun 2, 2022 11:39:53 GMT
The planned benefit was that we would have more freedom to negotiate deals with other trading partners without the shackles of the Union. It was also to take back control of the borders and have authority over who comes into the UK. Clearly, these things have not happened as planned or overnight. Hopefully they sort themselves out, and take shape over time and there are a few things happening to those effects. There are also a number of things that have hindered, slowed, detracted from the utopia. Nothing so much as infighting, disruption, then covid and other global difficulties. We are in a bit of a mess atm for sure, much like many other nations so as things settle and return to normal, I think we'll be fine. Did you really fall for that line about trade and immigration? I could not believe that I read that from GH79. I cannot get away from the image of someone sticking their fingers in their ears and shouting la la la as loud as they can. Quite unbelievable.
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Post by gashead79 on Jun 2, 2022 15:31:15 GMT
The planned benefit was that we would have more freedom to negotiate deals with other trading partners without the shackles of the Union. It was also to take back control of the borders and have authority over who comes into the UK. Clearly, these things have not happened as planned or overnight. Hopefully they sort themselves out, and take shape over time and there are a few things happening to those effects. There are also a number of things that have hindered, slowed, detracted from the utopia. Nothing so much as infighting, disruption, then covid and other global difficulties. We are in a bit of a mess atm for sure, much like many other nations so as things settle and return to normal, I think we'll be fine. Did you really fall for that line about trade and immigration? The one passed by both houses, signed off by the Queen and passed the referendum with a majority decision? That line?
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Post by gashead79 on Jun 2, 2022 15:32:23 GMT
Did you really fall for that line about trade and immigration? I could not believe that I read that from GH79. I cannot get away from the image of someone sticking their fingers in their ears and shouting la la la as loud as they can. Quite unbelievable. Sorry oldie, I was just putting an answer to your question.
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Post by oldie on Jun 2, 2022 15:56:41 GMT
I could not believe that I read that from GH79. I cannot get away from the image of someone sticking their fingers in their ears and shouting la la la as loud as they can. Quite unbelievable. Sorry oldie, I was just putting an answer to your question. I wish you were GH79. But what you stated was a regurgitation of the same tired, discredited, reasons we heard 6 years ago.
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Post by yattongas on Jun 2, 2022 16:24:07 GMT
Sorry oldie, I was just putting an answer to your question. I wish you were GH79. But what you stated was a regurgitation of the same tired, discredited, reasons we heard 6 years ago. You lost , get over it 🙄
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Post by oldie on Jun 2, 2022 16:30:30 GMT
I wish you were GH79. But what you stated was a regurgitation of the same tired, discredited, reasons we heard 6 years ago. You lost , get over it 🙄 Piglets 🐷
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Post by stuart1974 on Jun 2, 2022 18:28:15 GMT
Did you really fall for that line about trade and immigration? The one passed by both houses, signed off by the Queen and passed the referendum with a majority decision? That line? Not sure we are talking about the same thing, can you elaborate?
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Post by oldie on Jun 2, 2022 19:00:54 GMT
The one passed by both houses, signed off by the Queen and passed the referendum with a majority decision? That line? Not sure we are talking about the same thing, can you elaborate? We have been down this road before Stuart.
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Post by gashead79 on Jun 3, 2022 7:03:54 GMT
Sorry oldie, I was just putting an answer to your question. I wish you were GH79. But what you stated was a regurgitation of the same tired, discredited, reasons we heard 6 years ago. You didn't notice the first 4 words of my reply? Like I stated, and what is clear, is that there have been many distractions and hurdles. I am hopeful that over time it improves as we all should be. If this thread is just to take the p155 out of the UKs difficulties over brexit, that's fine btw. You guys can no doubt rumble this on until we all pass away! The children will just grow up knowing little difference whilst those who were around, continue to talk about how things once were, a bit like my own grandparents did about pre war Britain, etc etc. yatton. Once again, thanks for your valued contribution. I guess that's what people who voted for brexit would say to the likes of yourself, as they can't be ar5ed to waste time talking about it with you? The majority of N Somerset voted leave so I do feel your pain, sorry if you get sniggered at by your neighbours.
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Post by gashead79 on Jun 3, 2022 7:06:24 GMT
Not sure we are talking about the same thing, can you elaborate? We have been down this road before Stuart. Then, you guys elaborate please since its a trodden path?
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Post by stuart1974 on Jun 3, 2022 7:51:31 GMT
We have been down this road before Stuart. Then, you guys elaborate please since its a trodden path? If you read the Brexit thread which covered when we had the referendum and the period afterwards, you would see a tendency from even the most ardent Brexit supporters to ignore specific questions which drilled down on the consequences or just respond with a general 'it will be fine, don't worry'. The idea that there are 'reasons' for the lack of obvious benefits and increase in post Brexit problems gives the government a free pass from scrutiny. I'm guessing that's what Oldie is getting at. Could you explain what you meant in your earlier post?
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Post by oldie on Jun 3, 2022 9:59:07 GMT
Then, you guys elaborate please since its a trodden path? If you read the Brexit thread which covered when we had the referendum and the period afterwards, you would see a tendency from even the most ardent Brexit supporters to ignore specific questions which drilled down on the consequences or just respond with a general 'it will be fine, don't worry'. The idea that there are 'reasons' for the lack of obvious benefits and increase in post Brexit problems gives the government a free pass from scrutiny. I'm guessing that's what Oldie is getting at. Could you explain what you meant in your earlier post? Pretty much that Stuart. I would be harsher, but that is just my nature. As I said, GH79 is just regurgitating those same old lines, even though, 6 years later, none of what was decreed as a benefit has actually accrued. But still he claims it will, various "difficulties" being the current excuse as to why not. Conveniently ignoring they were false claims in the first place. Then of course, "it's what people voted for and was ratified in Parliament. Which of course is true. Lo betide we point out that in a Parliamentary democracy the statute book can be added to, amended at anytime. According to the leave camp, that's not true and the leave vote is set in stone..which of course is an affront to our democracy.
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Post by yattongas on Jun 3, 2022 10:16:22 GMT
I wish you were GH79. But what you stated was a regurgitation of the same tired, discredited, reasons we heard 6 years ago. You didn't notice the first 4 words of my reply? Like I stated, and what is clear, is that there have been many distractions and hurdles. I am hopeful that over time it improves as we all should be. If this thread is just to take the p155 out of the UKs difficulties over brexit, that's fine btw. You guys can no doubt rumble this on until we all pass away! The children will just grow up knowing little difference whilst those who were around, continue to talk about how things once were, a bit like my own grandparents did about pre war Britain, etc etc. yatton. Once again, thanks for your valued contribution. I guess that's what people who voted for brexit would say to the likes of yourself, as they can't be ar5ed to waste time talking about it with you? The majority of N Somerset voted leave so I do feel your pain, sorry if you get sniggered at by your neighbours. I could also post palpable nonsense but you’re doing so well by yourself. What matters is now and every region thinks Brexit has failed. Things won’t get better until we rejoin the single market and customs union . We told you this before the vote . It’s a matter of time , we just have to get the clowns out and convince the thick as mince that self harm isn’t a good idea . We’ve got our work cut out with the latter 🙄
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Post by yattongas on Jun 3, 2022 15:56:56 GMT
The Tory party have now decided that booing should now ne known as cheering ..
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