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Post by yattongas on Jun 7, 2022 9:53:39 GMT
The exponential rise in food banks since the Tory party came to power makes your point totally and utterly invalid. Dont know about the mines as that maybe true ? I just remember the miners strikes under Thatcher. No it doesn't. The implication was that food banks have only been needed under a tory government when in reality they were introduced and were in use for 10 years under a Labour government. So my point is people were obviously starving under Labour for the need for food banks to have to be introduced.🙂🙂 Yes it does . You can’t compare a handful to over 12000 . 🙄
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Post by stuart1974 on Jun 7, 2022 9:54:30 GMT
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Post by trevorgas on Jun 7, 2022 10:18:40 GMT
That's the ripple effect,Stuart what's your view on why it appears to be a greater need,I think inflation in the 70s was in the 20-30% region correct me if I'm wrong,I can't recall any government direct help then. Do you think it's because we have got used to zero inflation and the areas of discretionary spend have disappeared so folk can't reduce expenditure plus we spend on so many different things now which are necessities such as internet,mobiles etc etc Interested in your views
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Post by stuart1974 on Jun 7, 2022 11:16:24 GMT
That's the ripple effect,Stuart what's your view on why it appears to be a greater need,I think inflation in the 70s was in the 20-30% region correct me if I'm wrong,I can't recall any government direct help then. Do you think it's because we have got used to zero inflation and the areas of discretionary spend have disappeared so folk can't reduce expenditure plus we spend on so many different things now which are necessities such as internet,mobiles etc etc Interested in your views Not sure I could pin it down to any single issue although if pressed, I'd certainly look at mortgages and the rush to buy property with prices increasing. Thinking back to when I was my children's ages, mortgages seemed to be roughly 3 times highest income (certainly according to my dad anyway) whereas it's done more on affordability of joint incomes. Thst has caused prices to increase quicker and people pushing themselves to buy. So as soon as prices go up, there is little slack in household budgets. Interest rates were much higher and I remember the early 90s when rates were shooting up but government had greater influence over the Bank of England so while there may have been little direct intervention elsewhere they did have an impact on that. In terms of discretionary spend, I'm not sure. My mum took out what we'd know today as pay day loans, it was every Friday when the nice lady would turn up to collect the money and on the odd occasion I'd be told not to answer the door. Every now and then she would also take out a loan to pay off the other loans. It meant we'd get a good Christmas and birthday, being young at the time I'd not really understood it. Looking back, I should have helped a lot more when I started working, but she wanted me to (a) enjoy myself and (b) save up for my own house when the time came. She worked all her life doing a job she loved and actually died at work long after she should have retired. We certainly made better use of things then, my dad was a dab hand at making things and it's a running joke that he'd bring more back from the tip than he'd take 😃 My brothers bought cheap houses and did then up with second hand goods while my sister and brother in law bought their council house. Have we lost some of those skills and willingness to make do? All in all, I would say things are just different rather than anything fundamental. I would also say we are more likely to ask for help outside of the family circle (which itself has morphed over the last 30 years) and with communications better, can access that support. We also know more instead of keeping things hidden so are aware of other people's problems.
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Post by oldie on Jun 7, 2022 11:38:02 GMT
I would highlight the cost of housing today compared with the 1970s.
For the most part of the 1970s house prices were around 4 times the average income in the UK. Today that figure is 8 times.
A country cannot double the cost of housing in real terms without having a negative impact on disposable incomes. Add an incredible cost increase in utility costs, and we have a real problem. Previous policies are coming home to roost.
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Post by trevorgas on Jun 7, 2022 12:15:21 GMT
I would highlight the cost of housing today compared with the 1970s. For the most part of the 1970s house prices were around 4 times the average income in the UK. Today that figure is 8 times. A country cannot double the cost of housing in real terms without having a negative impact on disposable incomes. Add an incredible cost increase in utility costs, and we have a real problem. Previous policies are coming home to roost. Thanks Les,your right about housing costs,not sure if it's a market that will rebalance without some form of intervention.I always think back to the removal of credit controls when deposits and repayment terms started to disappear was part of the seed corn for where we are now.
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Post by trevorgas on Jun 7, 2022 12:16:55 GMT
That's the ripple effect,Stuart what's your view on why it appears to be a greater need,I think inflation in the 70s was in the 20-30% region correct me if I'm wrong,I can't recall any government direct help then. Do you think it's because we have got used to zero inflation and the areas of discretionary spend have disappeared so folk can't reduce expenditure plus we spend on so many different things now which are necessities such as internet,mobiles etc etc Interested in your views Not sure I could pin it down to any single issue although if pressed, I'd certainly look at mortgages and the rush to buy property with prices increasing. Thinking back to when I was my children's ages, mortgages seemed to be roughly 3 times highest income (certainly according to my dad anyway) whereas it's done more on affordability of joint incomes. Thst has caused prices to increase quicker and people pushing themselves to buy. So as soon as prices go up, there is little slack in household budgets. Interest rates were much higher and I remember the early 90s when rates were shooting up but government had greater influence over the Bank of England so while there may have been little direct intervention elsewhere they did have an impact on that. In terms of discretionary spend, I'm not sure. My mum took out what we'd know today as pay day loans, it was every Friday when the nice lady would turn up to collect the money and on the odd occasion I'd be told not to answer the door. Every now and then she would also take out a loan to pay off the other loans. It meant we'd get a good Christmas and birthday, being young at the time I'd not really understood it. Looking back, I should have helped a lot more when I started working, but she wanted me to (a) enjoy myself and (b) save up for my own house when the time came. She worked all her life doing a job she loved and actually died at work long after she should have retired. We certainly made better use of things then, my dad was a dab hand at making things and it's a running joke that he'd bring more back from the tip than he'd take 😃 My brothers bought cheap houses and did then up with second hand goods while my sister and brother in law bought their council house. Have we lost some of those skills and willingness to make do? All in all, I would say things are just different rather than anything fundamental. I would also say we are more likely to ask for help outside of the family circle (which itself has morphed over the last 30 years) and with communications better, can access that support. We also know more instead of keeping things hidden so are aware of other people's problems. Thanks Stuart as always a well thought out reply.
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Post by stuart1974 on Jun 7, 2022 13:16:27 GMT
Not sure what's worse, the suggestion of bribery (in reality nothing really new in politics) or the fact that the MP may have been naive enough to have believed the 'promise' and only a review too. 🤔
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Post by yattongas on Jun 7, 2022 13:47:31 GMT
That's the ripple effect,Stuart what's your view on why it appears to be a greater need,I think inflation in the 70s was in the 20-30% region correct me if I'm wrong,I can't recall any government direct help then. Do you think it's because we have got used to zero inflation and the areas of discretionary spend have disappeared so folk can't reduce expenditure plus we spend on so many different things now which are necessities such as internet,mobiles etc etc Interested in your views Not sure I could pin it down to any single issue although if pressed, I'd certainly look at mortgages and the rush to buy property with prices increasing. Thinking back to when I was my children's ages, mortgages seemed to be roughly 3 times highest income (certainly according to my dad anyway) whereas it's done more on affordability of joint incomes. Thst has caused prices to increase quicker and people pushing themselves to buy. So as soon as prices go up, there is little slack in household budgets. Interest rates were much higher and I remember the early 90s when rates were shooting up but government had greater influence over the Bank of England so while there may have been little direct intervention elsewhere they did have an impact on that. In terms of discretionary spend, I'm not sure. My mum took out what we'd know today as pay day loans, it was every Friday when the nice lady would turn up to collect the money and on the odd occasion I'd be told not to answer the door. Every now and then she would also take out a loan to pay off the other loans. It meant we'd get a good Christmas and birthday, being young at the time I'd not really understood it. Looking back, I should have helped a lot more when I started working, but she wanted me to (a) enjoy myself and (b) save up for my own house when the time came. She worked all her life doing a job she loved and actually died at work long after she should have retired. We certainly made better use of things then, my dad was a dab hand at making things and it's a running joke that he'd bring more back from the tip than he'd take 😃 My brothers bought cheap houses and did then up with second hand goods while my sister and brother in law bought their council house. Have we lost some of those skills and willingness to make do? All in all, I would say things are just different rather than anything fundamental. I would also say we are more likely to ask for help outside of the family circle (which itself has morphed over the last 30 years) and with communications better, can access that support. We also know more instead of keeping things hidden so are aware of other people's problems. At school I did woodwork , metal work , rural studies and home economics ( cooking!) classes . I don’t think they teach any of those subjects now but I could be wrong .
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Post by yattongas on Jun 7, 2022 13:47:46 GMT
That's the ripple effect,Stuart what's your view on why it appears to be a greater need,I think inflation in the 70s was in the 20-30% region correct me if I'm wrong,I can't recall any government direct help then. Do you think it's because we have got used to zero inflation and the areas of discretionary spend have disappeared so folk can't reduce expenditure plus we spend on so many different things now which are necessities such as internet,mobiles etc etc Interested in your views Not sure I could pin it down to any single issue although if pressed, I'd certainly look at mortgages and the rush to buy property with prices increasing. Thinking back to when I was my children's ages, mortgages seemed to be roughly 3 times highest income (certainly according to my dad anyway) whereas it's done more on affordability of joint incomes. Thst has caused prices to increase quicker and people pushing themselves to buy. So as soon as prices go up, there is little slack in household budgets. Interest rates were much higher and I remember the early 90s when rates were shooting up but government had greater influence over the Bank of England so while there may have been little direct intervention elsewhere they did have an impact on that. In terms of discretionary spend, I'm not sure. My mum took out what we'd know today as pay day loans, it was every Friday when the nice lady would turn up to collect the money and on the odd occasion I'd be told not to answer the door. Every now and then she would also take out a loan to pay off the other loans. It meant we'd get a good Christmas and birthday, being young at the time I'd not really understood it. Looking back, I should have helped a lot more when I started working, but she wanted me to (a) enjoy myself and (b) save up for my own house when the time came. She worked all her life doing a job she loved and actually died at work long after she should have retired. We certainly made better use of things then, my dad was a dab hand at making things and it's a running joke that he'd bring more back from the tip than he'd take 😃 My brothers bought cheap houses and did then up with second hand goods while my sister and brother in law bought their council house. Have we lost some of those skills and willingness to make do? All in all, I would say things are just different rather than anything fundamental. I would also say we are more likely to ask for help outside of the family circle (which itself has morphed over the last 30 years) and with communications better, can access that support. We also know more instead of keeping things hidden so are aware of other people's problems. At school I did woodwork , metal work , rural studies and home economics ( cooking!) classes . I don’t think they teach any of those subjects now but I could be wrong .
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Post by yattongas on Jun 7, 2022 21:16:28 GMT
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Post by oldie on Jun 7, 2022 21:24:18 GMT
This is exactly what I fear
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Post by yattongas on Jun 7, 2022 22:12:18 GMT
This is exactly what I fear There’s examples on here sadly .
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Post by stuart1974 on Jun 7, 2022 22:21:04 GMT
According to The Sun (🙈) Boris has until January to get back ahead in the Polls and will announce a series of policies shortly. He's going for tax cuts, cheaper child care and a house building programme utilising flat pack methods (bit like prefabs).
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Post by yattongas on Jun 7, 2022 22:39:03 GMT
According to The Sun (🙈) Boris has until January to get back ahead in the Polls and will announce a series of policies shortly. He's going for tax cuts, cheaper child care are a house building programme utilising flat pack methods (bit like prefabs). Imagine being this devoid of ideas 🤣. He’ll be gone before Jan .
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Post by axegas on Jun 8, 2022 2:41:32 GMT
According to The Sun (🙈) Boris has until January to get back ahead in the Polls and will announce a series of policies shortly. He's going for tax cuts, cheaper child care and a house building programme utilising flat pack methods (bit like prefabs). As I understand it tax cuts are usually employed when you want consumers to spend money or businesses to start hiring people. Considering there are record levels of job vacancies and inflation is at an unprecedented high, it’s not really something that the economy wants or needs right now. However I suppose its what the Tory backbenchers demand, so that’s all that counts. It really is the worst of both worlds because Tory tax cuts are unlikely to put money into the pockets of people who need it most during the cost of living crisis, yet it will have a tangible effect on consumption which will drive prices up even more. Let’s also not forget that we’ve just had National insurance hikes. Slashing business rates which would partially cancel out the money raised by N.I rises would be grossly unfair on the average taxpayer. Honestly, the more I think about tax cuts right now, the more it baffles me. Tax cuts can be a useful way to reinvigorate a flagging economy but it’s not sound economic policy for the situation we’re in right now. I’m not an advocate of more tax increases either, the uncomfortable reality is the government can do little to control inflation other than drastic fiscal tightening which would hurt people in the midst of a cost of living crisis making a lot of people very unhappy (rightly so). So the only thing to do, is to wait until central banks increase interest rates further and global supply shortages begin to ease, when alternatives to Russian gas and oil, and sadly Ukrainian grain are found.
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Post by stuart1974 on Jun 9, 2022 7:49:15 GMT
It'll be interesting to see the detail. Need to do something on properties left empty too though. "Levelling Up Secretary Michael Gove has vowed to end the "scourge" of unoccupied second homes, as part of government plans to boost housing. Mr Gove said a new bill making it easier to charge higher council tax on empty properties in England would "bring life back" to communities. He also said new powers to force landlords to rent out empty shops would regenerate urban areas. But Labour said the legislation would not be enough to help struggling areas. The new powers are in the government's Levelling Up and Regeneration Bill, which started its journey through Parliament on Wednesday." www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-61737646
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Post by oldie on Jun 9, 2022 9:28:27 GMT
It'll be interesting to see the detail. Need to do something on properties left empty too though. "Levelling Up Secretary Michael Gove has vowed to end the "scourge" of unoccupied second homes, as part of government plans to boost housing. Mr Gove said a new bill making it easier to charge higher council tax on empty properties in England would "bring life back" to communities. He also said new powers to force landlords to rent out empty shops would regenerate urban areas. But Labour said the legislation would not be enough to help struggling areas. The new powers are in the government's Levelling Up and Regeneration Bill, which started its journey through Parliament on Wednesday." www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-61737646Click bait. Reducing the supply of rental housing will do nothing to tackle the housing issues we face.
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Post by peterparker on Jun 9, 2022 13:10:16 GMT
Bloody Labour
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Post by stuart1974 on Jun 9, 2022 13:15:29 GMT
Plus ca change and all that. I've heard the Thatcher and Major governments do the same, as did New Labour although only for a few years then Gordon Brown opened the chequebook.
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