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Post by fintanstack on Sept 8, 2022 16:44:08 GMT
Oh don't get wrong this is where the law stinks between murder and manslaughter which I've experienced personally having attended a trial at the Old Bailey in 2002. Do you believe the killer of the 9 yr old child in Liverpool is guilty of murder or the lesser crime of manslaughter. I.E. did he intend to kill her ? This where it gets murky ,a half decent prosecutor would argue that going equipped with a firearm must mean you had foreseen,had planned and had the intent to use the firearm which may cause murder, personally I would conclude the same unless there was a defence of Diminished Responsibility. But if you intend to murder person A and accidentally kill person B instead then it is not murder. You are being too simplistic. |
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stuart1974
Proper Gas
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Post by stuart1974 on Sept 8, 2022 16:44:13 GMT
Oh don't get wrong this is where the law stinks between murder and manslaughter which I've experienced personally having attended a trial at the Old Bailey in 2002. Do you believe the killer of the 9 yr old child in Liverpool is guilty of murder or the lesser crime of manslaughter. I.E. did he intend to kill her ? This where it gets murky ,a half decent prosecutor would argue that going equipped with a firearm must mean you had foreseen,had planned and had the intent to use the firearm which may cause murder, personally I would conclude the same unless there was a defence of Diminished Responsibility. Transferred malice isn't it? Still likely to be a murder charge. |
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Post by trevorgas on Sept 8, 2022 16:47:05 GMT
This where it gets murky ,a half decent prosecutor would argue that going equipped with a firearm must mean you had foreseen,had planned and had the intent to use the firearm which may cause murder, personally I would conclude the same unless there was a defence of Diminished Responsibility. But if you intend to murder person A and accidentally kill person B instead then it is not murder. You are being too simplistic. I don't think so if you go equipped to murder ie: with a firearm who you kill is irrelevant. |
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Post by trevorgas on Sept 8, 2022 16:47:32 GMT
This where it gets murky ,a half decent prosecutor would argue that going equipped with a firearm must mean you had foreseen,had planned and had the intent to use the firearm which may cause murder, personally I would conclude the same unless there was a defence of Diminished Responsibility. Transferred malice isn't it? Still likely to be a murder charge. Yep |
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Post by fintanstack on Sept 8, 2022 16:52:45 GMT
But if you intend to murder person A and accidentally kill person B instead then it is not murder. You are being too simplistic. I don't think so if you go equipped to murder ie: with a firearm who you kill is irrelevant. Well the case in Liverpool is an unfortunate example. The gunman went out to kill someone. I do not see how you can possibly make a link that he set out to kill that poor child. He simply did not. I think that judges should be able to give identical sentences for murder and manslaughter in circumstances like this as obviously he deserves a "life means life" sentence. |
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Post by francegas on Sept 8, 2022 16:54:57 GMT
Cheers guys. We've had a really interesting topic to bebate without abuse flung at each other . 👍👍
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Post by trevorgas on Sept 8, 2022 16:57:53 GMT
I don't think so if you go equipped to murder ie: with a firearm who you kill is irrelevant. Well the case in Liverpool is an unfortunate example. The gunman went out to kill someone. I do not see how you can possibly make a link that he set out to kill that poor child. He simply did not. I think that judges should be able to give identical sentences for murder and manslaughter in circumstances like this as obviously he deserves a "life means life" sentence. I'm sure he didn't however,he must have known that it was a possibility hence murder |
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Post by fintanstack on Sept 8, 2022 17:23:29 GMT
Well the case in Liverpool is an unfortunate example. The gunman went out to kill someone. I do not see how you can possibly make a link that he set out to kill that poor child. He simply did not. I think that judges should be able to give identical sentences for murder and manslaughter in circumstances like this as obviously he deserves a "life means life" sentence. I'm sure he didn't however,he must have known that it was a possibility hence murder A possibility does not prove intent, prior planning, or a desired or accidental victim. I am not siding with the scumbag in Liverpool, nor am I saying I agree with the law. I would be utterly amazed if he is charged with murder though, because to the best of my knowledge he did not murder her. Killed, yes. But not murdered. |
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Post by trevorgas on Sept 8, 2022 17:29:19 GMT
I'm sure he didn't however,he must have known that it was a possibility hence murder A possibility does not prove intent, prior planning, or a desired or accidental victim. I am not siding with the scumbag in Liverpool, nor am I saying I agree with the law. I would be utterly amazed if he is charged with murder though, because to the best of my knowledge he did not murder her. Killed, yes. But not murdered. It will certainly be an interesting case,have they actually got a suspect in custody? |
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Post by fintanstack on Sept 8, 2022 17:38:43 GMT
A possibility does not prove intent, prior planning, or a desired or accidental victim. I am not siding with the scumbag in Liverpool, nor am I saying I agree with the law. I would be utterly amazed if he is charged with murder though, because to the best of my knowledge he did not murder her. Killed, yes. But not murdered. It will certainly be an interesting case,have they actually got a suspect in custody? 4 in custody I think, yesterday but I don't know if they are the suspect or actually the person who did it |
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Post by trevorgas on Sept 9, 2022 7:40:44 GMT
It will certainly be an interesting case,have they actually got a suspect in custody? 4 in custody I think, yesterday but I don't know if they are the suspect or actually the person who did it Thanks |
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Post by yattongas on Sept 10, 2022 9:59:56 GMT
No comment….
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Post by oldie on Sept 10, 2022 10:20:37 GMT
It is funny. She is awkward I almost feel sorry for her |
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Post by yattongas on Sept 11, 2022 15:59:04 GMT
As we sink to yet unseen depths…..
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Post by yattongas on Sept 20, 2022 22:24:49 GMT
Stamp duty cut incoming ? …….
Tories always go for the same playbook 🙄.
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Post by baggins on Sept 21, 2022 19:31:27 GMT
Stamp duty cut incoming ? ……. Tories always go for the same playbook 🙄. Weird they haven't increased the Inheritance Tax level. |
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Post by aghast on Sept 22, 2022 0:07:44 GMT
I don't think Truss will be the fire breathing right wing free marketeer some hope for and others fear. She says all this stuff to get elected but it will all be watered down now she's in No. 10.
There is still a middle ground, slightly right wing, one nation safe territory in the UK. Tory policies on public health care and benefits might frighten me a bit but they'd be seen as basically communist by some US Republicans.
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Post by oldie on Sept 22, 2022 6:42:18 GMT
I don't think Truss will be the fire breathing right wing free marketeer some hope for and others fear. She says all this stuff to get elected but it will all be watered down now she's in No. 10. There is still a middle ground, slightly right wing, one nation safe territory in the UK. Tory policies on public health care and benefits might frighten me a bit but they'd be seen as basically communist by some US Republicans. I don't think the bar should be set by a comparison with the absolute loons in the Republican Party in the USA |
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Post by yattongas on Sept 22, 2022 7:01:16 GMT
I don't think Truss will be the fire breathing right wing free marketeer some hope for and others fear. She says all this stuff to get elected but it will all be watered down now she's in No. 10. There is still a middle ground, slightly right wing, one nation safe territory in the UK. Tory policies on public health care and benefits might frighten me a bit but they'd be seen as basically communist by some US Republicans. Well she’s not getting off to a great start to prove your theory right . Can’t believe you’re saying she’s “slightly to the right” ! You’ve been gaslit . |
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Post by yattongas on Sept 22, 2022 7:22:16 GMT
#LeftwingLiz
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