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Post by stuart1974 on Oct 1, 2022 10:33:20 GMT
It was always the objective of this lot of far right Brexit loons . Shrink the state , then privatise the profitable bits , lower taxes for the rich and lower workers rights . They are a bunch of ideologues who won’t stop until they get what they want . Question,do you think Public Services are effective and efficient?,the answer isn't always more money ? Not at all, but it's been politicised to the extent rational discussions aren't possible. Mind you, less money isn't a solution either. |
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yattongas
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Post by yattongas on Oct 1, 2022 10:41:36 GMT
It was always the objective of this lot of far right Brexit loons . Shrink the state , then privatise the profitable bits , lower taxes for the rich and lower workers rights . They are a bunch of ideologues who won’t stop until they get what they want . Question,do you think Public Services are effective and efficient?,the answer isn't always more money ? Obvs not but if you’ve slashed each dept 20% ( austerity) , then gone back and cut again , then not kept up payments with inflation….. guess what ? Things are f**ked . Down to the bone . scraping at the marrow . Then you want to fund tax cuts by again slashing welfare payments. It’s sick and evil . You’re a difficult bloke to understand, you claim to be left leaning then espouse right wing thinking half the time . |
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Post by trevorgas on Oct 1, 2022 10:47:38 GMT
Question,do you think Public Services are effective and efficient?,the answer isn't always more money ? Not at all, but it's been politicised to the extent rational discussions aren't possible. Mind you, less money isn't a solution either. Totally agree,there is a massive lack of objective non emotional debate,my experience of sitting in hospitals over the last 20years and now as Chair Of Governors at one of the largest Special Schools in Wales is the sheer waste, inefficiency, ineffectiveness and poor management at all levels is breathtaking. I do not advocate reductions in funding but there has to be a better way of extracting more value per pound spent however,the institution's are so monolithic it won't happen |
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Post by trevorgas on Oct 1, 2022 10:54:55 GMT
Question,do you think Public Services are effective and efficient?,the answer isn't always more money ? Obvs not but if you’ve slashed each dept 20% ( austerity) , then gone back and cut again , then not kept up payments with inflation….. guess what ? Things are f**ked . Down to the bone . scraping at the marrow . Then you want to fund tax cuts by again slashing welfare payments. It’s sick and evil . You’re a difficult bloke to understand, you claim to be left leaning then espouse right wing thinking half the time . Please I'm not espousing right wing thinking,no matter what your political leanings you always have to ask is there a better way of doing this,be objective without the emotional baggage I think I have been very clear that I disagree with the vast majority of last week's fiasco if a budget,the only part I would support is the reduction in basic tax . I see nothing right wing in asking straight , objective questions otherwise how do we improve and move forward if we don't challenge ourselves to be better. Ps. A bit of feedback you don't understand if you lecture and make assumptions about what people believe. |
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Post by stuart1974 on Oct 1, 2022 11:08:50 GMT
Not at all, but it's been politicised to the extent rational discussions aren't possible. Mind you, less money isn't a solution either. Totally agree,there is a massive lack of objective non emotional debate,my experience of sitting in hospitals over the last 20years and now as Chair Of Governors at one of the largest Special Schools in Wales is the sheer waste, inefficiency, ineffectiveness and poor management at all levels is breathtaking. I do not advocate reductions in funding but there has to be a better way of extracting more value per pound spent however,the institution's are so monolithic it won't happen Couple of things brought it hone to me, the boiler upgrade under Gordon Brown which I didn't qualify for as disabled and my son didn't qualify for as he didn't own the house. The other is that the Council could pay me to be my son's full time carer, but no, they have to finance an outside agency at twice the price, plus admin time. They could have saved thousands a year in agency costs alone. |
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Post by trevorgas on Oct 1, 2022 11:11:47 GMT
Totally agree,there is a massive lack of objective non emotional debate,my experience of sitting in hospitals over the last 20years and now as Chair Of Governors at one of the largest Special Schools in Wales is the sheer waste, inefficiency, ineffectiveness and poor management at all levels is breathtaking. I do not advocate reductions in funding but there has to be a better way of extracting more value per pound spent however,the institution's are so monolithic it won't happen Couple of things brought it hone to me, the boiler upgrade under Gordon Brown which I didn't qualify for as disabled and my son didn't qualify for as he didn't own the house. The other is that the Council could pay me to be my son's full time carer, but no, they have to finance an outside agency at twice the price, plus admin time. They could have saved thousands a year in agency costs alone. Yep, similar here,imagine the cost if you multiply that across the UK |
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yattongas
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Post by yattongas on Oct 1, 2022 11:46:27 GMT
Obvs not but if you’ve slashed each dept 20% ( austerity) , then gone back and cut again , then not kept up payments with inflation….. guess what ? Things are f**ked . Down to the bone . scraping at the marrow . Then you want to fund tax cuts by again slashing welfare payments. It’s sick and evil . You’re a difficult bloke to understand, you claim to be left leaning then espouse right wing thinking half the time . Please I'm not espousing right wing thinking,no matter what your political leanings you always have to ask is there a better way of doing this,be objective without the emotional baggage I think I have been very clear that I disagree with the vast majority of last week's fiasco if a budget,the only part I would support is the reduction in basic tax . I see nothing right wing in asking straight , objective questions otherwise how do we improve and move forward if we don't challenge ourselves to be better. Ps. A bit of feedback you don't understand if you lecture and make assumptions about what people believe. Why suggest it then ? I was just surprised you could even think that more ‘efficiency’ might be the way to go . We’ve got ambulances stacked up outside hospitals, schools with leaking roofs , people waiting months for passports , driving licences etc etc etc. When they say efficiency savings what they mean is job cuts and privatisation. |
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Post by trevorgas on Oct 1, 2022 11:53:41 GMT
Please I'm not espousing right wing thinking,no matter what your political leanings you always have to ask is there a better way of doing this,be objective without the emotional baggage I think I have been very clear that I disagree with the vast majority of last week's fiasco if a budget,the only part I would support is the reduction in basic tax . I see nothing right wing in asking straight , objective questions otherwise how do we improve and move forward if we don't challenge ourselves to be better. Ps. A bit of feedback you don't understand if you lecture and make assumptions about what people believe. Why suggest it then ? I was just surprised you could even think that more ‘efficiency’ might be the way to go . We’ve got ambulances stacked up outside hospitals, schools with leaking roofs , people waiting months for passports , driving licences etc etc etc. When they say efficiency savings what they mean is job cuts and privatisation. I give up do you not understand the difference between a question and a suggestion! Read Stuart's post ,we have direct lived experience,do you? Efficiency savings do not mean job cuts,it can result in doing more with the same resource,multi skilling,better process,better technology etc, How do I know because I have done it in 3 failing Operations. |
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Post by yattongas on Oct 1, 2022 11:57:35 GMT
Not at all, but it's been politicised to the extent rational discussions aren't possible. Mind you, less money isn't a solution either. Totally agree,there is a massive lack of objective non emotional debate,my experience of sitting in hospitals over the last 20years and now as Chair Of Governors at one of the largest Special Schools in Wales is the sheer waste, inefficiency, ineffectiveness and poor management at all levels is breathtaking. I do not advocate reductions in funding but there has to be a better way of extracting more value per pound spent however,the institution's are so monolithic it won't happen My experience although limited was my mothers last few weeks of life at southmead hospital. The staff were rushed off their feet ( but all absolutely brilliant ) , they all had very little time to actually care for the patient. Just do the things that needed doing then quickly move onto the next patient . At times their wasn’t even staff to press the button to allow you into the ward they were so rushed off their feet. The food was pretty dire as well . Haven’t a lot of staff ( possibly the more experienced and knowledgeable) moved into the private sector for better pay and conditions? |
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Post by yattongas on Oct 1, 2022 11:58:46 GMT
Why suggest it then ? I was just surprised you could even think that more ‘efficiency’ might be the way to go . We’ve got ambulances stacked up outside hospitals, schools with leaking roofs , people waiting months for passports , driving licences etc etc etc. When they say efficiency savings what they mean is job cuts and privatisation. I give up do you not understand the difference between a question and a suggestion! Read Stuart's post ,we have direct lived experience,do you? Oh gawd 🙄 |
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Post by yattongas on Oct 1, 2022 12:01:02 GMT
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Post by trevorgas on Oct 1, 2022 12:05:16 GMT
I give up do you not understand the difference between a question and a suggestion! Read Stuart's post ,we have direct lived experience,do you? Oh gawd 🙄 Oh gawd exactly🤔 |
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Post by yattongas on Oct 1, 2022 12:16:27 GMT
Haha I’ll take no lectures of a bloke who thought leaving the EU was a good move 🙄 |
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Post by stuart1974 on Oct 1, 2022 12:47:56 GMT
Haha I’ll take no lectures of a bloke who thought leaving the EU was a good move 🙄 There is a difference between the systematic dismantling of support for cost saving and ideological reasons and wanting to improve things. All of us want it to be better, it's those in charge who don't. Neither of which is related to the EU, although I would say it was a Trojan Horse to elect this shambles of a government. |
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Post by yattongas on Oct 1, 2022 12:58:08 GMT
Haha I’ll take no lectures of a bloke who thought leaving the EU was a good move 🙄 There is a difference between the systematic dismantling of support for cost saving and ideological reasons and wanting to improve things. All of us want it to be better, it's those in charge who don't. Neither of which is related to the EU, although I would say it was a Trojan Horse to elect this shambles of a government. Exactly! This gov is only made up of the ghouls within is because of Brexit and their desire to dismantle everything. They would never of got anywhere near the top seats if it wasn’t for Brexit. Of course it’s all linked . |
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Post by trevorgas on Oct 1, 2022 13:08:02 GMT
Haha I’ll take no lectures of a bloke who thought leaving the EU was a good move 🙄 Must be a wonderful thing to be perfect |
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Post by yattongas on Oct 1, 2022 13:20:06 GMT
Haha I’ll take no lectures of a bloke who thought leaving the EU was a good move 🙄 Must be a wonderful thing to be perfect Far from perfect Clive 😃. I just listened to the experts before the Brexit vote and decided they knew far more than I did and it would be a terrible decision. Others listened to Gove and ignored the experts . Turns out those with the expertise were right …..surprisingly 🙄 My bug is only with those who refuse to admit it was a bad move despite the mountains of evidence. |
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Post by oldie on Oct 1, 2022 13:25:47 GMT
There is a difference between the systematic dismantling of support for cost saving and ideological reasons and wanting to improve things. All of us want it to be better, it's those in charge who don't. Neither of which is related to the EU, although I would say it was a Trojan Horse to elect this shambles of a government. Exactly! This gov is only made up of the ghouls within is because of Brexit and their desire to dismantle everything. They would never of got anywhere near the top seats if it wasn’t for Brexit. Of course it’s all linked . I agree. And I too think they should be held to account. |
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Post by fintanstack on Oct 1, 2022 15:12:14 GMT
For what it is worth, Trevorgas and Yattongas are both correct.
I believe (know first hand) efficiencies can be made.
However, efficiency to those in power, mean cuts.
If the Tories set aside £100 for the NHS and someone saves them a fiver, that money will not go on to improve service, it will end up in rich peoples pockets.
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Post by trevorgas on Oct 1, 2022 15:15:43 GMT
For what it is worth, Trevorgas and Yattongas are both correct. I believe (know first hand) efficiencies can be made. However, efficiency to those in power, mean cuts. If the Tories set aside £100 for the NHS and someone saves them a fiver, that money will not go on to improve service, it will end up in rich peoples pockets. And that's the issue in a nutshell,make the efficiencies and reinvest the saved cost not pocket it,then becomes a virtuous circle. |
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