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Post by francegas on Sept 15, 2020 11:18:04 GMT
Well it wouldn't be the first time a Government has broken the law. Look what Blair did . He should have faced a court for war crimes. But, but, but What about...... Right I get it !! Let's wash our hands about the fact that members of our armed forces lost their lives in an illegal war but what Boris has threatened is scandalous. |
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Post by baggins on Sept 15, 2020 11:23:22 GMT
So, it's official, we're going to break the law. Well it wouldn't be the first time a Government has broken the law. Look what Blair did . He should have faced a court for war crimes. I've often wondered on this. We went into a conflict on the presumption of WMD yes? Now the only reason that was highlighted was because of intelligence reports. Reports that were put in front of him. On those reports we went in yes? Now, do you blame Blair for acting on those reports or the people for getting the intelligence wrong? Or am I miles away from this? |
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Post by francegas on Sept 15, 2020 11:30:59 GMT
Well it wouldn't be the first time a Government has broken the law. Look what Blair did . He should have faced a court for war crimes. I've often wondered on this. We went into a conflict on the presumption of WMD yes? Now the only reason that was highlighted was because of intelligence reports. Reports that were put in front of him. On those reports we went in yes? Now, do you blame Blair for acting on those reports or the people for getting the intelligence wrong? Or am I miles away from this? The Chilcot report found that the intelligence reports had not established beyond doubt that Saddam Hussein had WMD. Yet Blair convinced himself they existed and sent the troops in. |
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Post by baggins on Sept 15, 2020 11:36:33 GMT
I've often wondered on this. We went into a conflict on the presumption of WMD yes? Now the only reason that was highlighted was because of intelligence reports. Reports that were put in front of him. On those reports we went in yes? Now, do you blame Blair for acting on those reports or the people for getting the intelligence wrong? Or am I miles away from this? The Chilcot report found that the intelligence reports had not established beyond doubt that Saddam Hussein had WMD. Yet Blair convinced himself they existed and sent the troops in. Along with the US. |
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Post by francegas on Sept 15, 2020 11:47:26 GMT
The Chilcot report found that the intelligence reports had not established beyond doubt that Saddam Hussein had WMD. Yet Blair convinced himself they existed and sent the troops in. Along with the US. Blair was a puppet to Bush. Blair subsequently came out and said "at worst I made an honest mistake". Wow!!! try telling that to the families of the servicemen who lost their lives. |
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Post by baggins on Sept 15, 2020 11:54:06 GMT
Blair was a puppet to Bush. Blair subsequently came out and said "at worst I made an honest mistake". Wow!!! try telling that to the families of the servicemen who lost their lives. Heard any apology about Grenfell? I'm not playing down the awful loss of life in the conflict but mistakes are made all the time that costs a life, and more. We went into that war as US Allies. |
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Post by Gassy on Sept 15, 2020 11:56:33 GMT
Blair was a puppet to Bush. Blair subsequently came out and said "at worst I made an honest mistake". Wow!!! try telling that to the families of the servicemen who lost their lives. FG is of course correct here. Blimey, we’re agreeing again! What’s going on?!  The issue for me though is that whilst any government might have done something wrong, it if course doesn’t make it right for this government to do the same. If one is outraged by Blair breaking the law, I can only assume they’re just as outraged about Cummings, prorogation of parliament and now this. And is just in a year! |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2020 11:57:44 GMT
But, but, but What about...... Right I get it !! Let's wash our hands about the fact that members of our armed forces lost their lives in an illegal war but what Boris has threatened is scandalous. I don’t think he worries about lives lost by those wearing uniform. He didn’t seemed bothered about the shooting of two LA Police Officers, collateral damage in his required ‘direct action’. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2020 12:17:15 GMT
Right I get it !! Let's wash our hands about the fact that members of our armed forces lost their lives in an illegal war but what Boris has threatened is scandalous. I don’t think he worries about lives lost by those wearing uniform. He didn’t seemed bothered about the shooting of two LA Police Officers, collateral damage in his required ‘direct action’. Don't make things up Eric. Francegas I totally agree about the Invasion of Iraq, it was disgraceful and a war crime. Not the first committed by this country, let's hope it's the last. |
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Post by stuart1974 on Sept 15, 2020 13:07:39 GMT
The Chilcot report found that the intelligence reports had not established beyond doubt that Saddam Hussein had WMD. Yet Blair convinced himself they existed and sent the troops in. Along with the US. And indeed several other countries such as Poland and Australia. Was it illegal? As I understand things, only if it is ruled so by The Hague. The Attorney General at the time changed his mind on the eve of war to say it was legal under existing UN resolutions. The legal case was at least, extremely dubious, even if genuinely believed. It was certainly unnecessary and the handling of the deployment and lack of planning afterwards was criminal. As a comparison to the current plans, not sure it stands up though. Legality is still debated now about Iraq and would be post factum in terms of Parliament voting in favour. With the Internal Markets Bill, government isn't even trying to pretend, they are upfront about it. It's the trustworthiness of agreeing a legal treaty to then reneging. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2020 13:13:51 GMT
And indeed several other countries such as Poland and Australia. Was it illegal? As I understand things, only if it is ruled so by The Hague. The Attorney General at the time changed his mind on the eve of war to say it was legal under existing UN resolutions. The legal case was at least, extremely dubious, even if genuinely believed. It was certainly unnecessary and the handling of the deployment and lack of planning afterwards was criminal. As a comparison to the current plans, not sure it stands up though. Legality is still debated now about Iraq and would be post factum in terms of Parliament voting in favour. With the Internal Markets Bill, government isn't even trying to pretend, they are upfront about it. It's the trustworthiness of agreeing a legal treaty to then reneging. And the small issue of promoting it as a triumph, but months later saying it's such a disaster we have to renege. Funny in the HoC yesterday, sat there like a naughty sulking schoolboy while Ed Milliband shredded him. |
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Post by stuart1974 on Sept 15, 2020 13:17:59 GMT
And indeed several other countries such as Poland and Australia. Was it illegal? As I understand things, only if it is ruled so by The Hague. The Attorney General at the time changed his mind on the eve of war to say it was legal under existing UN resolutions. The legal case was at least, extremely dubious, even if genuinely believed. It was certainly unnecessary and the handling of the deployment and lack of planning afterwards was criminal. As a comparison to the current plans, not sure it stands up though. Legality is still debated now about Iraq and would be post factum in terms of Parliament voting in favour. With the Internal Markets Bill, government isn't even trying to pretend, they are upfront about it. It's the trustworthiness of agreeing a legal treaty to then reneging. And the small issue of promoting it as a triumph, but months later saying it's such a disaster we have to renege. Funny in the HoC yesterday, sat there like a naughty sulking schoolboy while Ed Milliband shredded him. Indeed, but he has a large majority and with the DUP will win regardless of any rebellion (around 30 I read). I just hope that it is an elaborate charade, although our reputation has been damaged. |
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Post by stuart1974 on Sept 15, 2020 13:41:43 GMT
If in doubt, make it up. 😶
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Post by Gassy on Sept 15, 2020 14:48:44 GMT
If in doubt, make it up. 😶 Getting a bit silly now, isn’t it? We’re starting to look like America. By the way, didn’t Johnson sack 21 MPs last year because they refused to vote for the withdrawal agreement? A year later, he’s now telling us the same withdrawal agreement is flawed. It’s just so embarrassing |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2020 17:30:31 GMT
If in doubt, make it up. 😶 Getting a bit silly now, isn’t it? We’re starting to look like America. By the way, didn’t Johnson sack 21 MPs last year because they refused to vote for the withdrawal agreement? A year later, he’s now telling us the same withdrawal agreement is flawed. It’s just so embarrassing Only if you voted for the wankers. |
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Post by Gassy on Sept 15, 2020 17:38:44 GMT
Getting a bit silly now, isn’t it? We’re starting to look like America. By the way, didn’t Johnson sack 21 MPs last year because they refused to vote for the withdrawal agreement? A year later, he’s now telling us the same withdrawal agreement is flawed. It’s just so embarrassing Only if you voted for the wankers. Nope, its embarrassing to all of us tbh Oldie. A have a lot of friends throughout Europe, Brexit & the Covid reaction often comes up. Imagine trying to defend the UK right now and actually say that we're not all idiots. But then each day it ends up getting worse and worse lol |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2020 19:59:07 GMT
Only if you voted for the wankers. Nope, its embarrassing to all of us tbh Oldie. A have a lot of friends throughout Europe, Brexit & the Covid reaction often comes up. Imagine trying to defend the UK right now and actually say that we're not all idiots. But then each day it ends up getting worse and worse lol No I agree. It's hard to defend the indefensible. So I don't. |
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Post by Officer Barbrady on Sept 16, 2020 17:47:58 GMT
But, but, but What about...... Right I get it !! Let's wash our hands about the fact that members of our armed forces lost their lives in an illegal war but what Boris has threatened is scandalous. We could absolutely do both but this is a topic for This Governement after all so I do understand the call of whataboutery. |
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Post by Gassy on Sept 16, 2020 18:02:26 GMT
Just read Boris is now offering a vote to MPs before any of the powers are used, as long as they pass the bill at its reading next week.
Based on his previous history, I'd like to imagine the intelligent ones won't fall for it. Most likely he'll just say at the vote, 'if you don't vote for it, you're fired' again.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2020 18:33:30 GMT
Just read Boris is now offering a vote to MPs before any of the powers are used, as long as they pass the bill at its reading next week. Based on his previous history, I'd like to imagine the intelligent ones won't fall for it. Most likely he'll just say at the vote, 'if you don't vote for it, you're fired' again. We all know he will say anything 😅 |
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