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Post by yattongas on Nov 17, 2020 23:29:06 GMT
But it begs a genuine question that I’d like to hear opinions on from anyone: Why is anti-semitism in Labour a well established issue whereas islamophobia in the Tory party isn’t? It’s quite clear accusations of islamophobia aren’t going away but it gets barely a murmur in the press and in the court of public opinion. It’s obviously a known issue to the party because Sajid Javid needlessly committed to that inquiry (referenced in the post earlier) live on TV. I think it’s a combination of factors: A) the media. This is the biggest factor by far, imo. The right wing press shouts the loudest and seems to have the most reach, so it can continue to smear Labour time and again (and hey, rightly so if they are guilty- this isn’t a post defending anti-semitism I just want to explore why Labour are known to have race issues and yet the Tory party isn’t despite them having an issue of their own in the public domain) B) as per my previous post- labour have more pressure on them to be squeaky clean. I think we enjoy it in this country when people who moralise are caught in double standards. If you never claimed to be anything other than a rotter people can’t shame you so therefore getting worked up about morality is pointless because your target just doesn’t care and has enough power that they don’t have to. Labour on the other hand could be seen to be quite preachy, especially with this gender wars stuff (another thing I dislike about the current Labour Party). C) people just don’t care? I wouldn’t be surprised if there is a tacit approval amongst the populace for islamophobia. Given the association of Islam in regards to terrorism it seems like there might be a few amongst the traditional Tory voting base who don’t see it as a problem however to the same people anti-semitism IS something to find abhorrent. I had some further factors in mind when I started typing this post out but I’m buggered if I can remember them 🙄 At the end of the day I don’t think either party has any moral high ground on race issues and if you vote for one of them you are acquiescing to it. I’m guilty on that score myself so as such I won’t try and defend labour or try and make out that labour are some whiter than white entity. I’m just a bit bemused that an argument I hear increasingly often at the moment is “I voted Tory because of Labour’s record on anti-semitism” which suggests that either they don’t really give a sh** about race issues at all or one kind of prejudice trumps another. Interesting points, perhaps too complex to go into on here. But will say that labour have done awful things in the past, the post-war welfare state was built on ruthless exploitation of UK colonies around the world, where else did the money come from? Often labour & Tories are barely distinguishable and MPs cross party lines. Labour are a liberal project, you vote for them, you feel better about yourself, job done, you can carry on with your life. Anti-semitism & islamophobia get lumped together but they are complex issues that are different in may ways. It’s point A . Obvs 🙄 |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2020 12:40:52 GMT
So
Mr Johnson can commit to spending £16 Billion on defence, but he had to be persuaded to spend on school meals for kids.
Tells you all you need to know.
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Post by baggins on Nov 19, 2020 13:49:37 GMT
So Mr Johnson can commit to spending £16 Billion on defence, but he had to be persuaded to spend on school meals for kids. Tells you all you need to know. No pay rise for NHS Staff as yet either. Got money to kill people but not to save them. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2020 14:27:02 GMT
So Mr Johnson can commit to spending £16 Billion on defence, but he had to be persuaded to spend on school meals for kids. Tells you all you need to know. No pay rise for NHS Staff as yet either. Got money to kill people but not to save them. Invoking language like "Defence of the Realm" Sieg Heil |
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Post by yattongas on Nov 19, 2020 14:58:14 GMT
Bringing forward to 2030 the end of selling petrol & diesel
vehicles is a good thing IMO .
That’s it ..... that’s pretty much the only good thing they’ve done ! 😂
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Post by baggins on Nov 19, 2020 15:38:30 GMT
Bringing forward to 2030 the end of selling petrol & diesel vehicles is a good thing IMO . That’s it ..... that’s pretty much the only good thing they’ve done ! 😂 Can't see that happening. |
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Post by stuart1974 on Nov 19, 2020 15:47:28 GMT
So Mr Johnson can commit to spending £16 Billion on defence, but he had to be persuaded to spend on school meals for kids. Tells you all you need to know. You'd have thought an MBE would keep Rashford quiet, it does for backbenchers. 😀 |
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Post by stuart1974 on Nov 19, 2020 15:57:36 GMT
So Mr Johnson can commit to spending £16 Billion on defence, but he had to be persuaded to spend on school meals for kids. Tells you all you need to know. No pay rise for NHS Staff as yet either. Got money to kill people but not to save them. Jobs and politics, Bags, jobs and politics. It's just papering over cracks caused by politicians wanting to do defence on the cheap (I know the sums sound large but in defence terms not really) but pretending to be a big boy. Until we decide to downgrade our ambition to meet realistic abilities then it's all for show. Post Brexit there will be a push to enlarge our current miniscule footprint in the far east but retain our NATO commitment. They'll become tokenism. Jobs wise, it will confirm some vehicle manufacturing and a few ships, nothing much above what is already planned for. |
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Post by yattongas on Nov 19, 2020 15:58:45 GMT
Bringing forward to 2030 the end of selling petrol & diesel vehicles is a good thing IMO . That’s it ..... that’s pretty much the only good thing they’ve done ! 😂 Can't see that happening. Probably right , but it’s still a good idea ! |
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Post by stuart1974 on Nov 19, 2020 15:59:06 GMT
Bringing forward to 2030 the end of selling petrol & diesel vehicles is a good thing IMO . That’s it ..... that’s pretty much the only good thing they’ve done ! 😂 I agree, good seedcorn investment although more will be needed. It's one thing I do think is to be applauded. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2020 16:07:53 GMT
Bringing forward to 2030 the end of selling petrol & diesel vehicles is a good thing IMO . That’s it ..... that’s pretty much the only good thing they’ve done ! 😂 Can't see that happening. Electric Cars are so affordable for folks on average incomes. The banks will be delighted selling over priced PCP deals, to those that can afford it. Meanwhile everyone else can ride public transport...don't laugh |
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Post by trevorgas on Nov 19, 2020 16:12:11 GMT
Bringing forward to 2030 the end of selling petrol & diesel vehicles is a good thing IMO . That’s it ..... that’s pretty much the only good thing they’ve done ! 😂 I agree, good seedcorn investment although more will be needed. It's one thing I do think is to be applauded. However,who's going to pay the £500-1000 for the change to each homes domestic electricity to charge the car as currently it takeseems in excess of 12 hours depending on what type of car |
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Post by yattongas on Nov 19, 2020 16:14:11 GMT
I agree, good seedcorn investment although more will be needed. It's one thing I do think is to be applauded. However,who's going to pay the £500-1000 for the change to each homes domestic electricity to charge the car as currently it takeseems in excess of 12 hours depending on what type of car People in high rise flats will be buggered ! |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2020 16:20:32 GMT
So Mr Johnson can commit to spending £16 Billion on defence, but he had to be persuaded to spend on school meals for kids. Tells you all you need to know. No one gives a sh** oldie. The usual crew will be on in a minute to ignore what you have posted to give us “b-b-b-b-benefits scroungers” all over again. Interestingly I was reading that the cost of benefit fraud is actually far outweighed by unclaimed benefits! I wonder if that would change people’s opinions if it was more common knowledge. Again, probably not. People don’t give a sh** and believe what the Tories want them to believe: that the country is sinking under the weight of benefits and it’s the greatest evil this country faces, other issues that cost the country far more don’t even come close. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2020 16:22:51 GMT
I agree, good seedcorn investment although more will be needed. It's one thing I do think is to be applauded. However,who's going to pay the £500-1000 for the change to each homes domestic electricity to charge the car as currently it takeseems in excess of 12 hours depending on what type of car I’ve heard an electric car owner say it costs them £3.50 for an equivalent £20 of petrol. But as they pointed out afterwards watch the cost of electric sky rocket as the government make up for lost fuel revenue |
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Post by Officer Barbrady on Nov 19, 2020 16:38:24 GMT
So Mr Johnson can commit to spending £16 Billion on defence, but he had to be persuaded to spend on school meals for kids. Tells you all you need to know. No one gives a sh** oldie. The usual crew will be on in a minute to ignore what you have posted to give us “b-b-b-b-benefits scroungers” all over again. Interestingly I was reading that the cost of benefit fraud is actually far outweighed by unclaimed benefits! I wonder if that would change people’s opinions if it was more common knowledge. Again, probably not. People don’t give a sh** and believe what the Tories want them to believe: that the country is sinking under the weight of benefits and it’s the greatest evil this country faces, other issues that cost the country far more don’t even come close. I think what has become clear to me is that people would much rather others had no support even if that means that one day they could be in that boat, than others having reasonable standards of living security whilst they don't need to benefit themselves at that time. Its like insurance really isn't it but with the added benefit of actually doing something to help your fellow man whilst you yourself don't have to claim. But we hear the scroungers argument all the time. They don't deserve it, they get too much, etc. They should suffer because I'm working hard. That's what it boils down to for me. Its not enough for you to be doing alright. People want to be doing better than someone else, even if that means the someone else doing worse still. Otherwise why would it ever matter? |
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Post by stuart1974 on Nov 19, 2020 16:40:45 GMT
However,who's going to pay the £500-1000 for the change to each homes domestic electricity to charge the car as currently it takeseems in excess of 12 hours depending on what type of car I’ve heard an electric car owner say it costs them £3.50 for an equivalent £20 of petrol. But as they pointed out afterwards watch the cost of electric sky rocket as the government make up for lost fuel revenue As will the incentive given to those building new power stations, see Hinckley Point T&Cs. They'll make us pay one way or another. |
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Post by gregsy on Nov 19, 2020 16:51:58 GMT
I’ve heard an electric car owner say it costs them £3.50 for an equivalent £20 of petrol. But as they pointed out afterwards watch the cost of electric sky rocket as the government make up for lost fuel revenue As will the incentive given to those building new power stations, see Hinckley Point T&Cs. They'll make us pay one way or another. Surely it would be illegal to put duty on to essential utilities? I can only see road tax increasing with more electric cars on the road.... |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2020 16:52:39 GMT
No one gives a sh** oldie. The usual crew will be on in a minute to ignore what you have posted to give us “b-b-b-b-benefits scroungers” all over again. Interestingly I was reading that the cost of benefit fraud is actually far outweighed by unclaimed benefits! I wonder if that would change people’s opinions if it was more common knowledge. Again, probably not. People don’t give a sh** and believe what the Tories want them to believe: that the country is sinking under the weight of benefits and it’s the greatest evil this country faces, other issues that cost the country far more don’t even come close. I think what has become clear to me is that people would much rather others had no support even if that means that one day they could be in that boat, than others having reasonable standards of living security whilst they don't need to benefit themselves at that time. Its like insurance really isn't it but with the added benefit of actually doing something to help your fellow man whilst you yourself don't have to claim. But we hear the scroungers argument all the time. They don't deserve it, they get too much, etc. They should suffer because I'm working hard. That's what it boils down to for me. Its not enough for you to be doing alright. People want to be doing better than someone else, even if that means the someone else doing worse still. Otherwise why would it ever matter? Absolutely OB. And we have the temerity to define ourselves as an "advanced" nation. I listened to that utter plank Alok Sharma refusing to answer a direct question on why our esteemed government paid a "middle man" £24 million (yes, £24M) to facilitate the supply of PPE. But we cannot afford school meals for our kids |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2020 17:02:22 GMT
No one gives a sh** oldie. The usual crew will be on in a minute to ignore what you have posted to give us “b-b-b-b-benefits scroungers” all over again. Interestingly I was reading that the cost of benefit fraud is actually far outweighed by unclaimed benefits! I wonder if that would change people’s opinions if it was more common knowledge. Again, probably not. People don’t give a sh** and believe what the Tories want them to believe: that the country is sinking under the weight of benefits and it’s the greatest evil this country faces, other issues that cost the country far more don’t even come close. I think what has become clear to me is that people would much rather others had no support even if that means that one day they could be in that boat, than others having reasonable standards of living security whilst they don't need to benefit themselves at that time. Its like insurance really isn't it but with the added benefit of actually doing something to help your fellow man whilst you yourself don't have to claim. But we hear the scroungers argument all the time. They don't deserve it, they get too much, etc. They should suffer because I'm working hard. That's what it boils down to for me. Its not enough for you to be doing alright. People want to be doing better than someone else, even if that means the someone else doing worse still. Otherwise why would it ever matter? It’s a very important issue as we are moving towards the concept of the universal basic income. It will struggle to be a vote winner because there will be an older generation who have been brought up on the rhetoric of hard work who will object to it strongly. I think future generations will be more enlightened and able to better grasp the concept that jobs are going to be lost to technology and for people to have security there has to be a different model to allow people to live when jobs simply aren’t there. The whole idea of productivity and hard work are quite archaic from a more manual and industrial era imo. |
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