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Post by Westy on Jun 30, 2020 18:12:34 GMT
I totally hear everybody when people say they don't want to infect their vulnerable friends and family, and want to social distance to avoid passing it on. The only issue I have with this is that vulnerable people will and do die from things like shingles, seasonal flu, the common cold. The logic that we should shut down the economy and not leave the house needs to be applied universally if it is to have any credibility. Those who distance to protect their family, do you self isolate for 3 months every winter? When the seasonal flu is going around. Because if you don't; you're a hypocrite. The best course of action to protect the vulnerable from transmittable disease is literally for nobody to leave their house ever again. Unfortunately, it is what it is. There is always a flu going around (there's actually trillions of flu strains floating in the air), and as compassionate and empathetic as I am, if you're 97 with terminal cancer, something's going to push you over the edge. I'd put it down to the cancer and the age. But we're happy to blame the flu now. Elon Musk said, with his tongue firmly in his cheek but with his finger on the pulse: "If you got eaten by a shark and tested positive for Covid, you'd be marked as a Covid death". To satisfy some, I can't see any problem with 2m distancing on the terraces. Queuing up for the bar and the turnstiles might be problematic but that's something we've managed to do elsewhere. Another point people need to realise is that when they say "I'm following the science" is that supermarkets are open, power stations are open. So people are going to work, they aren't closed. If we "followed the science with lockdown" that would literally mean EVERYBODY, so - no lights, no food, no water etc. So you're not following the science by enforcing double standards, you're taking a political stance. I really don't see myself as a hypocrite. The flaw in your argument is that Covid 19 has a significantly higher case fatality rate than the other diseases that you mention. We won't know the overall figures until later, but put simply the general % of people that will die having caught Covid 19 is much higher than shingles, seasonal flu or the common cold.
Moreover, the inherent reproductive number - or if you prefer the likelihood that a person with the disease is going to pass it on to someone else - is also much higher for Covid-19 than the others. Bring people into close contact again and the number of cases will inevitibly rise until we vaccinate or achieve herd immunity.
It is not a political stance. It is basic epidemiology.
Finally, believe anything Elon Musk says at your peril.
Well that's the thing. I wonder how many deaths from seasonal flu have been recorded since December? Most likely zero, because anyone who died with a cough is getting marked down as a Covid death. Elon has it spot on, people already knocking on deaths door are getting marked down as killed by COVID, not the thing that was actually killing them in the first place. Do we mark down a cancer patient with a cold as a death by the common cold, or do we mark it down as a cancer death? The reporting is a shambles. As for epidemiology, an epidemiologist would tell you we all need to stay at home forever because Covid isn't going away. It's mutated over 30 times already this year, and by the time a vaccine has (won't be) found, it will be rendered ineffective because of Herd Immunity, and the fact that it will be based on the out-mutated original strain. A virologist however, would tell you that getting a virus is good for your immune system, and that getting outside and hugging people and picking up their germs is better for your health and immune system. All we're doing with lockdown is lowering our immune system and not giving the country the chance to keep our defences up. They will also tell you that the faster you get and get over Covid, the more likely you are to be resistant to subsequent strains and mutations. The problem is, if there's a second spike, it's because of lockdown. And if there's no second spike, it's because Covid wasn't dangerous in the first place. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2020 18:30:58 GMT
I really don't see myself as a hypocrite. The flaw in your argument is that Covid 19 has a significantly higher case fatality rate than the other diseases that you mention. We won't know the overall figures until later, but put simply the general % of people that will die having caught Covid 19 is much higher than shingles, seasonal flu or the common cold.
Moreover, the inherent reproductive number - or if you prefer the likelihood that a person with the disease is going to pass it on to someone else - is also much higher for Covid-19 than the others. Bring people into close contact again and the number of cases will inevitibly rise until we vaccinate or achieve herd immunity.
It is not a political stance. It is basic epidemiology.
Finally, believe anything Elon Musk says at your peril.
Well that's the thing. I wonder how many deaths from seasonal flu have been recorded since December? Most likely zero, because anyone who died with a cough is getting marked down as a Covid death. Elon has it spot on, people already knocking on deaths door are getting marked down as killed by COVID, not the thing that was actually killing them in the first place. Do we mark down a cancer patient with a cold as a death by the common cold, or do we mark it down as a cancer death? The reporting is a shambles. As for epidemiology, an epidemiologist would tell you we all need to stay at home forever because Covid isn't going away. It's mutated over 30 times already this year, and by the time a vaccine has (won't be) found, it will be rendered ineffective because of Herd Immunity, and the fact that it will be based on the out-mutated original strain. A virologist however, would tell you that getting a virus is good for your immune system, and that getting outside and hugging people and picking up their germs is better for your health and immune system. All we're doing with lockdown is lowering our immune system and not giving the country the chance to keep our defences up. They will also tell you that the faster you get and get over Covid, the more likely you are to be resistant to subsequent strains and mutations. The problem is, if there's a second spike, it's because of lockdown. And if there's no second spike, it's because Covid wasn't dangerous in the first place. It's the new health care method. Stop bothering with vaccination, don't worry about infectious diseases. Just get it and your body will learn to kill it. If you live. If. |
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Post by Gassy on Jun 30, 2020 21:27:04 GMT
I really don't see myself as a hypocrite. The flaw in your argument is that Covid 19 has a significantly higher case fatality rate than the other diseases that you mention. We won't know the overall figures until later, but put simply the general % of people that will die having caught Covid 19 is much higher than shingles, seasonal flu or the common cold.
Moreover, the inherent reproductive number - or if you prefer the likelihood that a person with the disease is going to pass it on to someone else - is also much higher for Covid-19 than the others. Bring people into close contact again and the number of cases will inevitibly rise until we vaccinate or achieve herd immunity.
It is not a political stance. It is basic epidemiology.
Finally, believe anything Elon Musk says at your peril.
Well that's the thing. I wonder how many deaths from seasonal flu have been recorded since December? Most likely zero, because anyone who died with a cough is getting marked down as a Covid death. Elon has it spot on, people already knocking on deaths door are getting marked down as killed by COVID, not the thing that was actually killing them in the first place. Do we mark down a cancer patient with a cold as a death by the common cold, or do we mark it down as a cancer death? The reporting is a shambles. As for epidemiology, an epidemiologist would tell you we all need to stay at home forever because Covid isn't going away. It's mutated over 30 times already this year, and by the time a vaccine has (won't be) found, it will be rendered ineffective because of Herd Immunity, and the fact that it will be based on the out-mutated original strain. A virologist however, would tell you that getting a virus is good for your immune system, and that getting outside and hugging people and picking up their germs is better for your health and immune system. All we're doing with lockdown is lowering our immune system and not giving the country the chance to keep our defences up. They will also tell you that the faster you get and get over Covid, the more likely you are to be resistant to subsequent strains and mutations. The problem is, if there's a second spike, it's because of lockdown. And if there's no second spike, it's because Covid wasn't dangerous in the first place. Tbf Westy, the death figures are from people who’ve tested positive from covid, in hospitals I believe anyway. Officer B has brought this up well a few months ago about the figures on what it’s caused or influenced by Covid. I think the problem as well is also what we’re defining as an underlying health condition. Are people with diabetes knocking on deaths door? On top of that there was a report a while ago (no idea where to find it now tbh) saying that if you go on a ventilator from Covid, your lungs will never recover to the capacity they were at. Something along those lines anyway. |
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Post by curlywurly on Jul 1, 2020 7:46:43 GMT
Didn't want to do this but seeing as this threads lurched off topic to become a discussion about politics and the coronavirus, it's getting moved to the general chat. Don't say you weren't warned. The new Godwin's law, I am afraid. |
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Post by Westy on Aug 4, 2020 7:55:51 GMT
Hey peeps! Sorry for the long reply, came to the realisation that lockdown has made me swerve off topic football relating, and that hasn't just been confined to forums! Found myself getting a bit opinionated on social media as well, had to take a few weeks self-imposed exile and reflect on everything!
Anyways, back now! Best catch up with some other threads before I get derailed again! 🙏
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Post by axegas on Aug 4, 2020 17:33:24 GMT
Hey peeps! Sorry for the long reply, came to the realisation that lockdown has made me swerve off topic football relating, and that hasn't just been confined to forums! Found myself getting a bit opinionated on social media as well, had to take a few weeks self-imposed exile and reflect on everything! Anyways, back now! Best catch up with some other threads before I get derailed again! 🙏 Good to have you back mate. Always good to have a reset every now and then, to take your mind off things. There wasn't anything wrong with the thread, in fact you raised the really important question of would you come back to see the gas in a global pandemic or not. Just went a bit off topic thats all. Look forward to reading your future posts. |
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Post by Westy on Sept 12, 2020 15:01:37 GMT
Hey peeps! Sorry for the long reply, came to the realisation that lockdown has made me swerve off topic football relating, and that hasn't just been confined to forums! Found myself getting a bit opinionated on social media as well, had to take a few weeks self-imposed exile and reflect on everything! Anyways, back now! Best catch up with some other threads before I get derailed again! 🙏 Good to have you back mate. Always good to have a reset every now and then, to take your mind off things. There wasn't anything wrong with the thread, in fact you raised the really important question of would you come back to see the gas in a global pandemic or not. Just went a bit off topic thats all. Look forward to reading your future posts. Thank you for the kind words Axe ✨ reset has done me the world of good, and glad to be back, with warm words to welcome me! UTG! 💙 |
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Post by baggins on Sept 13, 2020 12:30:51 GMT
Good to have you back mate. Always good to have a reset every now and then, to take your mind off things. There wasn't anything wrong with the thread, in fact you raised the really important question of would you come back to see the gas in a global pandemic or not. Just went a bit off topic thats all. Look forward to reading your future posts. Thank you for the kind words Axe ✨ reset has done me the world of good, and glad to be back, with warm words to welcome me! UTG! 💙 Welcome back chap. |
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Post by Westy on Sept 13, 2020 13:30:39 GMT
Thank you for the kind words Axe ✨ reset has done me the world of good, and glad to be back, with warm words to welcome me! UTG! 💙 Welcome back chap. Thanks baggins 🙏 lots to catch up on since I've been back, exciting/worrying times it seems - depending on who you ask! |
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