Corona virus update - level up from 3 to 4

I don't think for one minute that this is an easy choice or one that won't have other consequences.

For those who advocate the idea of ringfencing the vulnerable and open things up for the rest, one thing I do think is that this government would readily do that if it was practical.

The fact they are not shows to me the dangers are likely to be much greater than we think.

With respect, please relax your tone, I am not your enemy. I am a front line health care professional and am quite well versed in some of the subjects you suggest I know nothing about. As such, I am also guided by evidence and the general scientific consensus is the general scientific consensus because of available evidence. I am always willing to change my opinion as new evidence presents itself (and have asked for it) but anecdotal claims aren't enough. Your note on rising suicide notes may be completely true. (See edit) It is also completely true that the increase is nowhere near the current deaths from covid. I do not envy your personal suffering nor the risk to your families livelihoods nor do I downplay it but this is a question of priorities and ours simply differ.

Edit: Samaritans say that there is no substantiated evidence that suicide rates have increased during the pandemic.

They may have, but thats the current science.

It seems all the hope and delaying measures are based upon the vaccine arriving in the not too distant future. I’m aware of positive noises about the trials but we are still a long way from a definite success, even then, how long will it take to roll out before ‘normality’ is resumed? How much damage is being caused to health and the economy in the meantime?
The older members of my family - parents, uncles, aunts are as fed up as everyone. They are willing to take their chances the same as younger members of society in order to have some degree of normality. What is the point in prolonging the life of the elderly if it is just being made into a miserable existence with no holidays, no socialising, limited family contact etc...
I understand you have a vested interest being on the front line and get why nobody in the NHS wants to return to the overwhelming situation from earlier in the year. However, are those numbers likely? If everyone (especially the more vulnerable) continue with measures like masks surely we won’t get get the previous numbers, especially since care homes and vulnerable people picked up the virus before protections were in place. Isn’t the medical profession now better equipped with treatment techniques and medications to significantly reduce the percentage of cases becoming fatal?
IMO we are now getting past the point of the measures being of more harm than benefit - when both health and financial wellbeing are taken into account.

My mother in law said the same thing not so long ago, she is so desperate to hug her grandchildren and get back to normal shopping.

When I said it puts her at risk she said "I don't care about me", so I had to add that this wouldn't just be her. It puts at risk all of her immediate family including 4 at risk people, the medical staff and her friends, plus she ran the risk of dying so would actually never see them again anyway. Add to that those of us who would need to care for her, do the hospital runs to visit or if she died, who would miss her and deprive her grandchildren of a grandmother.

Really not worth an M&S ready meal.

But how long will you hold that view. What if the vaccine everyone is pinning their hopes on doesn’t arrive? Surely there must come a point at which we have to say enough is enough? How much more economic turmoil and damage to other areas of our overall health can be justified.

I stopped reading at “please relax your tone”

Honestly? I've managed 6 months already and while I have family needing protection, as long as it takes.

Obviously things change, but at the moment that's where I am.

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No argument to be shredded , I simply don’t agree with what you said. Especially when you begin your post in a condescending manor, ah well.

With the winter flu, I've been working in an office for 20 years, there is always someone with a cold/flu during half the year, but people feel like they've got to go work, and end up spreading the germs. There's even a word for it, presenteeism.

If you take what are perceived as too many sick days management will be on you like cheap suit, and you could lose your job.

Doesn't matter that you know a couple of old people that say they don't care about the virus, the fact is that what remains of the NHS needs to be protected through the pandemic, or it will crumble this winter.